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#3413328 - 07/03/14 10:50 AM Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight?
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
I have a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi, 4.0 liter, inline 6cyl. Had the engine replaced a few months ago. The "new" engine has about 168K miles.
New sparks and wires about 4000 miles ago.

I put about .5 quarts of Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase a hundred miles ago, and put some in the fuel tank, as well. (I have read the back and forth threads about MMO vs. AutoRX. ARX might be an awesome product, but I need to stick to something I can afford. Money is tight.)

Question: I normally run Valv Maxlife blend, 5w30. For my upcoming OCI, I want to put a full quart of MMO in, so I will substitute 1 quart of oil. I've read MMO can thin out the oil a little.
Should I put Maxlife blend 10w30 in so it's a little thicker?
What is the next step up as far as a "thicker" viscosity? ("Thicker viscosity" probably isn't the right way to say it.)
Is 10w40 the next step past 10w30?

I want to change as few things as possible, so if there is an issue it will be easier to troubleshoot.

I don't consider any of these products (engine cleaners) to be miraculous, though I'm sure they work well. Replacing my engine was a huge amount of $$. I figure if I use MMO (or something similar) every OCI, or every other OCI, and maybe in the gas tank once a month, even if it keeps parts of the engine only 10-15% cleaner than it would be otherwise, that's a win. An extra $6 per OCI and extra $6 once a month in the gas tank is worth it if it allows me to go as long as I can before replacing parts, avoiding knocks, pings, etc.

If you think there's a better engine cleaning product, please let me know (as long as it isn't an MMO vs. ARX shootout.)

Thoughts?

Thank you in advance if you have time to answer.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3413331 - 07/03/14 10:53 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 6793
Loc: Onondaga County
Run 10w-30 PYB and don't look back.
_________________________
'11 Focus PYB 45K
'00 Cherokee PYB 125K

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#3413339 - 07/03/14 11:03 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20745
Loc: Colorado Springs
If it was me and I was adding that much MMO to an engine that anecdotally likes a thicker oil, I'd probably bump up to 10w-40 for piece of mind. But that's just me. smile

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#3413341 - 07/03/14 11:05 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13535
Loc: Upstate NY
I would run a decent synthetic oil, maybe the Walmart brand. It will go a good job of cleaning the engine. Kreen is another option.

I would not go the QT of MMO route.

I assume you just got a used engine from salvage yard? What was the engine cost and install cost if you do not mind me asking?

What happened to first engine?
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3413365 - 07/03/14 11:37 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Thanks for the replies.

Miller88,
What does "PYB" mean? - Nevermind, found it. Pennzoil Yellow bottle

Drew,
I hadn't heard Jeep GC's liked a thicker oil. The Maxlife blend is supposed to be a synthetic blend, AFAIK. But who knows what the blend % is.
I was thinking the blend was probably a little thinner than a conventional oil. So maybe I'll have to switch to 10w30 for normal use, after the MMO.

Donald,
Could I ask why you wouldn't do a quart of MMO?
Yep, used engine from the junkyard. The engine was about $1700 and the total for everything was $2900.
As far as what was wrong w/ the original, I had taken it in because of a noise coming from the engine block. (Can't recall exact nature of the noise now.)
The shop said that they figured it was probably the rod bearings going out. And that I should either look at a new Jeep or new engine.
Oh, and FWIW, this wasn't a dealership. It was a smaller chain shop that has worked on the Jeep many times (I got it at 198,200 miles, and it needed a lot of work.)

I don't honestly know what rod bearings are.


Edited by niero (07/03/14 11:49 AM)
Edit Reason: added info
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3413397 - 07/03/14 12:11 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13535
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: niero
Thanks for the replies.

Miller88,
What does "PYB" mean? - Nevermind, found it. Pennzoil Yellow bottle

Drew,
I hadn't heard Jeep GC's liked a thicker oil. The Maxlife blend is supposed to be a synthetic blend, AFAIK. But who knows what the blend % is.
I was thinking the blend was probably a little thinner than a conventional oil. So maybe I'll have to switch to 10w30 for normal use, after the MMO.

Donald,
Could I ask why you wouldn't do a quart of MMO?
Yep, used engine from the junkyard. The engine was about $1700 and the total for everything was $2900.
As far as what was wrong w/ the original, I had taken it in because of a noise coming from the engine block. (Can't recall exact nature of the noise now.)
The shop said that they figured it was probably the rod bearings going out. And that I should either look at a new Jeep or new engine.
Oh, and FWIW, this wasn't a dealership. It was a smaller chain shop that has worked on the Jeep many times (I got it at 198,200 miles, and it needed a lot of work.)

I don't honestly know what rod bearings are.


The rod connects the piston to the crankshaft. its got a wrist pin on top and rod bearing on the crankshaft.

I paid about what you did for the engine, but I got a reman from Marshall Engines via RockAuto. With the install cost, you would have to give me a salvage engine before I would consider it.

I think a QT of MMO is too high a % of the total sump capacity. Its a cleaner not a great oil. I would not want 20% of my total oil to not be a good oil. Try a cup. Or Walmart synthetic.

You can go to Rotella T or T6, both great oils, but you will loose maybe 1.5 MPG. I am not sure I would say they like thick oils, but they do OK with them. I have gone back to 10W30 from T6 5W40.
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3413416 - 07/03/14 12:33 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
285south Offline


Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 378
Loc: usa
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5-30 and a 1/2 bottle MOS2. The 2nd oci M1HM and the other half of MOS2

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#3413458 - 07/03/14 01:47 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
gregk24 Offline


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 2929
Loc: FL, USA
Run any name brand synthetic 5/10w30 and you Will clean it up in time. Pennzoil comes to mind.
_________________________
2006 Honda Accord LX 2.4 i-vtec 125K
Mobil 1 AFE 0w20
Fram Ultra 7317

2005 Chevy Uplander 3.5 117K
Mobil 1 HM 5w30
Fram Ultra 3387

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#3413596 - 07/03/14 04:03 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: 285south]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7369
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: 285south
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5-30 and a 1/2 bottle MOS2. The 2nd oci M1HM and the other half of MOS2




Why the mos2. In my experience using mos2 unless the engine is clean,and used as directed it doesn't do a whole lot.
I've used mos2 in all my air compressors and generators,countless cars and trucks and a diesel or 2 and I can say without any doubts whatsoever if not used as directed it won't accomplish anything,and if the internals aren't clean it won't plate,so I suggest following the directions as far as concentration.
I can say for certain that after the first full strength application half strength can be used to maintain the plating effect however half strength primary applications really doesn't do anything in my experience.

Motor oil saver is an ester and will clean an engines internals without harsh chemicals however I do like solvents for cleaning up engines because they will flash off,cleaning the pcv and intake tract to a point.
I've had good luck using seafoam.mmo,stp oil additives for cleaning internals. Leave it for the entire interval. Within 1000 miles the solvents will flash off leaving the light carrier oil and whatever ingredients are included as cleaning agents.
Today's oil additives that can be bought over the counter really aren't that strong or dangerous to use. Basically idiot proof.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3415927 - 07/06/14 08:40 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9409
Loc: OH
Do you have reason to suspect that the engine needs cleaning?
If not, just use any decent oil on reasonable drain intervals and you'll be doing all you can to protect the engine.
Any recent API spec oil will keep an engine clean as long as it isn't run too long. How long will depend upon the use you make of the machine.
If you do decide to run a full quart of MMO, I'd make the rest of the oil a 10W-40.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 22K HGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 64K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 127K G-Oil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 98K Synpower 10W-30
95 BMW 318iC 149K Defy 10W-40

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#3415930 - 07/06/14 08:46 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: fdcg27]
rockydee Offline


Registered: 03/09/14
Posts: 151
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Do you have reason to suspect that the engine needs cleaning?
If not, just use any decent oil on reasonable drain intervals and you'll be doing all you can to protect the engine.
Any recent API spec oil will keep an engine clean as long as it isn't run too long. How long will depend upon the use you make of the machine.
If you do decide to run a full quart of MMO, I'd make the rest of the oil a 10W-40.


Good info, or if the guy lives in a colder climate he can use the Marvel in the winter, if he can wait. That has been mentioned a few times by a long time user in old threads I've been reading. I use it that way too, [when I needed it] but honestly it doesn't matter.

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#3416111 - 07/06/14 12:10 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: fdcg27]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Do you have reason to suspect that the engine needs cleaning?
If not, just use any decent oil on reasonable drain intervals and you'll be doing all you can to protect the engine.
Any recent API spec oil will keep an engine clean as long as it isn't run too long. How long will depend upon the use you make of the machine.
If you do decide to run a full quart of MMO, I'd make the rest of the oil a 10W-40.


If you have hard evidence you have sludge in your engine, try this from Rislone:

Rislone Engine Treatment

It has special (slow) cleaners and additional friction modifiers. It is a 5W20 so don't run the mix over 500 miles.


If you do not have any evidence of sludge, just run a synthetic 10W30 like Pennzoil Platinum.

But since you said

Quote:
I have a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi, 4.0 liter, inline 6cyl. Had the engine replaced a few months ago. The "new" engine has about 168K miles. New sparks and wires about 4000 miles ago.


How can you put 168k on an engine you just replaced a few months ago?


Edited by MolaKule (07/06/14 12:13 PM)
_________________________
My bank has a service where they text me my balance every afternoon. I just don’t think they should add “LOL” to the end. smile

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#3416138 - 07/06/14 12:39 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3350
Loc: SE PA
I suppose you could say, based on the "new", that it's new to him smile
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3416888 - 07/07/14 08:07 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Do you have reason to suspect that the engine needs cleaning?
If not, just use any decent oil on reasonable drain intervals and you'll be doing all you can to protect the engine.
Any recent API spec oil will keep an engine clean as long as it isn't run too long. How long will depend upon the use you make of the machine.
If you do decide to run a full quart of MMO, I'd make the rest of the oil a 10W-40.


If you have hard evidence you have sludge in your engine, try this from Rislone:

Rislone Engine Treatment

It has special (slow) cleaners and additional friction modifiers. It is a 5W20 so don't run the mix over 500 miles.


If you do not have any evidence of sludge, just run a synthetic 10W30 like Pennzoil Platinum.

But since you said

Quote:
I have a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi, 4.0 liter, inline 6cyl. Had the engine replaced a few months ago. The "new" engine has about 168K miles. New sparks and wires about 4000 miles ago.


How can you put 168k on an engine you just replaced a few months ago?



I meant that the engine that was put in a few months ago has now has about 168,000 to 170,000 miles on it. It was above 160K miles when it was put in as it was bought from a salvage yard. It was literally the only one we could get our hands on at the time.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3416896 - 07/07/14 08:16 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: fdcg27]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Do you have reason to suspect that the engine needs cleaning?
If not, just use any decent oil on reasonable drain intervals and you'll be doing all you can to protect the engine.
Any recent API spec oil will keep an engine clean as long as it isn't run too long. How long will depend upon the use you make of the machine.
If you do decide to run a full quart of MMO, I'd make the rest of the oil a 10W-40.



I don't have "direct" evidence that the engine needs cleaning. By that I mean, I haven't taken off the valve cover to look. I'm not mechanically inclined, and don't have the tools.

I'm going the engine cleaning route for a couple reasons:
1) I don't know the history of the engine and so a thorough cleaning over a couple OCI's isn't going to hurt.
2) I want this engine to last as long as possible, so even if it only results in parts of the engine being 10% cleaner than they otherwise would be, I still consider that a win. MMO is not a risky product in that if I don't follow directions to the letter I could ruin my engine. (Obviously, doing something stupid like pouring 2 quarts of MMO in and not enough oil or something could be harmful, but I think you get my drift.)
3) Judging by what people have been saying, I think I've been using a pretty good oil, as I always use the Valv Maxlife, which is said to have a lot of detergents. Something I could do to improve is maybe request the fully synthetic version, rather than the blend. But this is an old engine so I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

I'm hearing a lot of good things about Pennzoil Platinum, but right now I usually have the car shop or Valvoline Instant Oil Change do the oil changes. If I'm buying expensive oil I'm not sure how much I would save by doing it myself.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3417020 - 07/07/14 10:27 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
sw99 Offline


Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 1445
Loc: Colorado
I would run 80% Delvac 1300 15w40 (because it's cheap - Under $12 a gallon at WM) and 20% MMO. That seems to really clean the internals. I am currently doing this on my varnished 1ZZFE engine.
_________________________
2001 Toyota Corolla LE 1.8L
2012 Honda Civic EX 1.8L
1979 Ford F150 351M/C6/NP205

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#3417268 - 07/07/14 03:56 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
If using MMO in that engine, I'd imediatelly drop that pan down (after drainage, of course) to clean the pickup screen, or, your lottery.


Edited by Rosetta (07/07/14 03:58 PM)
_________________________
1995 Ford Taurus 3.0 Vulcan 78k miles Mobil 1 5w30
1993 Subaru Impreza EJ16 121k miles Mobil 1 15w50
1997 Kawasaki Ninja ZX9R 38k miles Mobil 1 15w50

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#3417876 - 07/08/14 05:35 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
I'd run a thicker oil fwiw. 40W70 would be about right...............

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#3417951 - 07/08/14 07:57 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: sprintman]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: sprintman
I'd run a thicker oil fwiw. 40W70 would be about right...............


Never knew they ran that thick. What kind of vehicle is it in? What made you go to that weight?
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3418906 - 07/08/14 09:32 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

If you have hard evidence you have sludge in your engine, try this from Rislone:

Rislone Engine Treatment

It has special (slow) cleaners and additional friction modifiers. It is a 5W20 so don't run the mix over 500 miles.


Whoa!? The Rislone is actually 5w-20? I actually would have thought it was thinner. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know? Did you run tests on it?
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

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#3419484 - 07/09/14 12:10 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
Here is how I found out about it (bear with me):

When my dad was seriously ill I had to travel from here to KY to help my sisters out with dad. The car rental group I worked with did not have a vehicle on such a short notice.

So I had to drive a distance of 520 miles one way, in my 2003 Nissan PathFinder, V6 engine. First over 30 mile trip with this vehicle in 7 years. Vehicle has 146,000 miles on it.

After going through the Ozark hills in Missouri, and about 70 miles from Dad's house, I started loosing power on hill climbs. It had never done this before. It would downshift to 3rd or second gear and rev up to 4,000 rpm on climbs.

I pulled off of I-55 and proceeded through the two-lane backroads and nursed it to dad's house.

The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking.

The shop was two weeks behind (a roof had collapsed in one section of the shop from heavy snow a week before).

The owner and head mechanic suggested I go to the AZ store and use the Rislone product in the meantime. I thought to myself, "Geez, another shade tree goodoleboy mechanic trying to blow a Yankee off" because he was overbooked.

Well, here I was 520 miles from home with a sick PathFinder, so what the heck.

I purchased the Rislone product and put a half quart into the engine. Within 10 miles the engine smoothed out and power was restored. No more downshifts.

Before I left the area I went and told the owner thanks and the engine had returned to normal. He said he has seen this many times where these Nissan engines have not been run hot enough to sweep the carbon from the VVT control valves, especially in these year engines where they had an early VVT control system. He said these valves will stick early on if oil changes are NOT done using the severe service schedule. Well, I have always used the severe service schedule for all my vehicles, especially since I have my own lubricants.

So when I got back home I had it analyzed.

As you know I am not a fan of aftermarket additives and do not believe they are needed, except for specific circumstances.

In this case, the Rislone product did the job.



Edited by MolaKule (07/09/14 12:18 PM)
_________________________
My bank has a service where they text me my balance every afternoon. I just don’t think they should add “LOL” to the end. smile

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#3419500 - 07/09/14 12:23 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3791
Loc: KC
thanks for sharing that molakule. i've been contemplating running the concentrate every 50k miles or so because I like to try and keep things as clean as possible. For $5, it is like why not try it now and then?
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 110k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv PP 5W-20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 35k+

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#3419681 - 07/09/14 03:16 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
05LGTLtd Offline


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 747
Loc: Va
As far as mixing, I'd go heavier with either MMO or the Rislone.

Since it's a Jeep, Rotella T6 is the first to come to mind.

If sump is over 5qts. Go with M1 HM 10w-40 jug Plus your additive for cost effectiveness. I'd lean toward the rislone with the M1.

Run either for a limited Interval.

I've used LiquiMoly Proline engine flush before. 10 min idle and change. I've also run MMO for a 3k with PYB 10w-40. If using MMO, check you level every fill up or two, it often loses a little volume.
_________________________
2005 Legacy GT, M1 TDT
2010 Forester SOHC, SynPower 5w-30

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#3419703 - 07/09/14 03:42 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
<snip>The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking... In this case, the Rislone product did the job.

Right, Rislone did the job, but so would MMO or a host of other products, provided they contained either solvent or very thin oil or both. The VVT mechanism really wasn't carboned up - it was gummed up - possibly from using oil of too heavy weight, or maybe just drivng the vehicle around town, and not enough highway miles.

Toyotas (and a lot of other VVT vehicles) suffer from this same syndrome (even with oil as heavy as 10w-30). I've seen Toyota oil pressure lights come on (which really gets some attention!) simply because the oil pressure is low (or non-existent) somewhere north of the VVT mechanism. The engine (not counting the VVT) is actually running just fine. There's an odd message on this board from a user who states that he lost oil pressure because of adding L-M MoS2, which somehow clogged his oil filter - an almost impossible scenario. To a certainty, his oil pressure was fine but his oil pressure light came on because his oil weight was too heavy or his VVT engine was otherwise gummed up - all totally unrelated to any oil additive.

Rislone is fine - this is not intended to criticize the product - but it is hardly unique. Modern Japanese engines like very thin oil - the thinner the better.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3419714 - 07/09/14 04:00 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: dave5358]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3791
Loc: KC
are you trying to tell a tribologist and blender you know more about oil and how additives work than he does?
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 110k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv PP 5W-20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 35k+

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#3419826 - 07/09/14 05:53 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: badtlc]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: badtlc
are you trying to tell a tribologist and blender you know more about oil and how additives work than he does?

Did you even read what I wrote?

To quote Molakute from another thread "If it is the [Rislone] Yellow bottled CCase cleaner then you most likely thinned the oil significantly (since it's a 20 weight) so it could have done some minor cleaning." I would be surprised if it is really 20w - more like 10w. Advance Auto advertises Rislone as 'penetrating oil'. Which is to say, it's a lot like MMO (without the fragrance and red color).

Despite the endless threads on BITOG about an endless number of "unique" additive products, most of the products fall into a limited number of groups: fuel additives containing PEA, oil additives with ZDDP, oil additives that are mostly thin mineral oil and solvent (MMO, probably Rislone), oil additives with PTFE (which you should avoid), etc. etc. The big advantage of MMO (in the pale oil solvent group) is it is less expensive.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3419854 - 07/09/14 06:23 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: dave5358]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
<snip>The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking... In this case, the Rislone product did the job.

Right, Rislone did the job, but so would MMO or a host of other products, provided they contained either solvent or very thin oil or both. The VVT mechanism really wasn't carboned up - it was gummed up - possibly from using oil of too heavy weight, or maybe just drivng the vehicle around town, and not enough highway miles.

Toyotas (and a lot of other VVT vehicles) suffer from this same syndrome (even with oil as heavy as 10w-30). I've seen Toyota oil pressure lights come on (which really gets some attention!) simply because the oil pressure is low (or non-existent) somewhere north of the VVT mechanism. The engine (not counting the VVT) is actually running just fine. There's an odd message on this board from a user who states that he lost oil pressure because of adding L-M MoS2, which somehow clogged his oil filter - an almost impossible scenario. To a certainty, his oil pressure was fine but his oil pressure light came on because his oil weight was too heavy or his VVT engine was otherwise gummed up - all totally unrelated to any oil additive.

Rislone is fine - this is not intended to criticize the product - but it is hardly unique. Modern Japanese engines like very thin oil - the thinner the better.


I don't think the VVT valve was carboned up either (that was the mechanic's explanation and I think it was a general explanation). I think it was sticking from either thick varnish or a piece of gummy sludge or both. The oil weight is not in question since I run a 5W30 full synthetic the year round. I do think I will do occasional "Italian Tuneups" and make some longer trips in it just to make sure it gets to max temp.

Quote:
Which is to say, it's a lot like MMO (without the fragrance and red color).


I would have to disagree here.

The Rislone product contains no light hydrocarbon solvents. It does contains a detergent/dispersant chemistry similar to Pennzoil's, an ester, a friction modifier, an AW agent, and testing did show it was a 5W20 weight.

16 oz. of a 5W20 in a 5.5L capacity sump would only reduce the viscosity about 0.5 cSt at the most.

Whether or not MMO would have have the same effect, who knows, but this mechanic has 35 years of experience with all makes of vehicles, and when you're in a pinch, you take the best advice advice you can get and run with it. smile

Just to be clear, this was the Rislone Engine oil treatment, Part Number 100QR seen at

Rislone EOS

and not the engine oil supplement with zinc treatment.

Again, I am not a fan of any third party engine oil additive but this one did solve a problem.


Edited by MolaKule (07/09/14 06:38 PM)
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#3419885 - 07/09/14 06:50 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
Just wondering about Poly Ether Amina in the cranckcase (fuel system cleaner like techron). Is it a non-go? I think it is a non-goo.
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#3419891 - 07/09/14 06:56 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
PEA in a crankcase is useless.

PEA in a fuel mix helps cleaning and combustion.
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#3419974 - 07/09/14 07:58 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9970
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
<snip>The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking... In this case, the Rislone product did the job.

Right, Rislone did the job, but so would MMO or a host of other products, provided they contained either solvent or very thin oil or both. The VVT mechanism really wasn't carboned up - it was gummed up - possibly from using oil of too heavy weight, or maybe just drivng the vehicle around town, and not enough highway miles.

Toyotas (and a lot of other VVT vehicles) suffer from this same syndrome (even with oil as heavy as 10w-30). I've seen Toyota oil pressure lights come on (which really gets some attention!) simply because the oil pressure is low (or non-existent) somewhere north of the VVT mechanism. The engine (not counting the VVT) is actually running just fine. There's an odd message on this board from a user who states that he lost oil pressure because of adding L-M MoS2, which somehow clogged his oil filter - an almost impossible scenario. To a certainty, his oil pressure was fine but his oil pressure light came on because his oil weight was too heavy or his VVT engine was otherwise gummed up - all totally unrelated to any oil additive.

Rislone is fine - this is not intended to criticize the product - but it is hardly unique. Modern Japanese engines like very thin oil - the thinner the better.


I don't think the VVT valve was carboned up either (that was the mechanic's explanation and I think it was a general explanation). I think it was sticking from either thick varnish or a piece of gummy sludge or both. The oil weight is not in question since I run a 5W30 full synthetic the year round. I do think I will do occasional "Italian Tuneups" and make some longer trips in it just to make sure it gets to max temp.

Quote:
Which is to say, it's a lot like MMO (without the fragrance and red color).


I would have to disagree here.

The Rislone product contains no light hydrocarbon solvents. It does contains a detergent/dispersant chemistry similar to Pennzoil's, an ester, a friction modifier, an AW agent, and testing did show it was a 5W20 weight.

16 oz. of a 5W20 in a 5.5L capacity sump would only reduce the viscosity about 0.5 cSt at the most.

Whether or not MMO would have have the same effect, who knows, but this mechanic has 35 years of experience with all makes of vehicles, and when you're in a pinch, you take the best advice advice you can get and run with it. smile

Just to be clear, this was the Rislone Engine oil treatment, Part Number 100QR seen at

Rislone EOS

and not the engine oil supplement with zinc treatment.

Again, I am not a fan of any third party engine oil additive but this one did solve a problem.


It sounds like something worth trying. I am not a big fan of oil additives either but I believe they do have their place in certain situations as you say.
Cant beat the price thats for sure. Thanks for the info!
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#3420151 - 07/09/14 10:06 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Trav]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21325
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
<snip>The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking... In this case, the Rislone product did the job.

Right, Rislone did the job, but so would MMO or a host of other products, provided they contained either solvent or very thin oil or both. The VVT mechanism really wasn't carboned up - it was gummed up - possibly from using oil of too heavy weight, or maybe just drivng the vehicle around town, and not enough highway miles.

Toyotas (and a lot of other VVT vehicles) suffer from this same syndrome (even with oil as heavy as 10w-30). I've seen Toyota oil pressure lights come on (which really gets some attention!) simply because the oil pressure is low (or non-existent) somewhere north of the VVT mechanism. The engine (not counting the VVT) is actually running just fine. There's an odd message on this board from a user who states that he lost oil pressure because of adding L-M MoS2, which somehow clogged his oil filter - an almost impossible scenario. To a certainty, his oil pressure was fine but his oil pressure light came on because his oil weight was too heavy or his VVT engine was otherwise gummed up - all totally unrelated to any oil additive.

Rislone is fine - this is not intended to criticize the product - but it is hardly unique. Modern Japanese engines like very thin oil - the thinner the better.


I don't think the VVT valve was carboned up either (that was the mechanic's explanation and I think it was a general explanation). I think it was sticking from either thick varnish or a piece of gummy sludge or both. The oil weight is not in question since I run a 5W30 full synthetic the year round. I do think I will do occasional "Italian Tuneups" and make some longer trips in it just to make sure it gets to max temp.

Quote:
Which is to say, it's a lot like MMO (without the fragrance and red color).


I would have to disagree here.

The Rislone product contains no light hydrocarbon solvents. It does contains a detergent/dispersant chemistry similar to Pennzoil's, an ester, a friction modifier, an AW agent, and testing did show it was a 5W20 weight.

16 oz. of a 5W20 in a 5.5L capacity sump would only reduce the viscosity about 0.5 cSt at the most.

Whether or not MMO would have have the same effect, who knows, but this mechanic has 35 years of experience with all makes of vehicles, and when you're in a pinch, you take the best advice advice you can get and run with it. smile

Just to be clear, this was the Rislone Engine oil treatment, Part Number 100QR seen at

Rislone EOS

and not the engine oil supplement with zinc treatment.

Again, I am not a fan of any third party engine oil additive but this one did solve a problem.


It sounds like something worth trying. I am not a big fan of oil additives either but I believe they do have their place in certain situations as you say.
Cant beat the price thats for sure. Thanks for the info!


I'd give it a shot too.
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#3420397 - 07/10/14 07:26 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21325
Loc: NY
From their site they say this:

Bar's Products, Inc. announced it's purchase of the Shaler Company and Rislone name brand in May of 2006. The goal was to maintain the integrity of the original Rislone formula while updating the overall look of the products you see in stores today.

Here's a product from 1921 that still works, if the above info is still correct. When you have something good no point in changing it.
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#3421291 - 07/10/14 09:46 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: demarpaint]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7516
Loc: Colorado
If it works and it costs something like 5 bucks why not use it?

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#3421510 - 07/11/14 07:47 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Update -

Finally got the oil changed yesterday. It was pretty dirty after about 3500 miles. I decided to go with Maxlife HM 10w30 synth blend. It's a 6 quart crankcase, put in 5 quarts oil, 1 quart MMO.
I'll keep an extra quart of Maxlife HM 10w30 in the car and check it every so often. I decided to use a slightly thicker oil, but not too much, to start with. From my experience with troubleshooting in any arena, I've found that not changing too much too quickly is often better. Small adjustments.

I'm going to run a short OCI, 2500 miles at the most, do another 1 quart MMO next oil change, then probably switch to a full synthetic oil.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3421523 - 07/11/14 08:07 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21325
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: niero
Update -

Finally got the oil changed yesterday. It was pretty dirty after about 3500 miles. I decided to go with Maxlife HM 10w30 synth blend. It's a 6 quart crankcase, put in 5 quarts oil, 1 quart MMO.
I'll keep an extra quart of Maxlife HM 10w30 in the car and check it every so often. I decided to use a slightly thicker oil, but not too much, to start with. From my experience with troubleshooting in any arena, I've found that not changing too much too quickly is often better. Small adjustments.

I'm going to run a short OCI, 2500 miles at the most, do another 1 quart MMO next oil change, then probably switch to a full synthetic oil.


Sounds like a good plan. You could go to 3,000 miles for your cleanup if you'd like.
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#3422012 - 07/11/14 06:54 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
PEA in a crankcase is useless.

PEA in a fuel mix helps cleaning and combustion.


This

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#3422038 - 07/11/14 07:22 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: sprintman]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7516
Loc: Colorado
I think what MolaKule is saying is that a person should not put something like Techron that contains PEA into the motor oil. But a product like Techron with PEA is designed to be used in the gasoline for cleaning and combustion. PEA is already used as an additive in gasolines.

There is a difference.

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#3422087 - 07/11/14 08:12 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Mystic]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3350
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I think what MolaKule is saying is that a person should not put something like Techron that contains PEA into the motor oil. But a product like Techron with PEA is designed to be used in the gasoline for cleaning and combustion. PEA is already used as an additive in gasolines.

There is a difference.


Originally Posted By: Rosetta
Just wondering about Poly Ether Amina in the cranckcase (fuel system cleaner like techron). Is it a non-go? I think it is a non-goo.
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3422226 - 07/11/14 10:32 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: sw99]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4611
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: sw99
I would run 80% Delvac 1300 15w40 (because it's cheap - Under $12 a gallon at WM) and 20% MMO. That seems to really clean the internals. I am currently doing this on my varnished 1ZZFE engine.


My favorite combo as well (15w40 HDEO plus MMO). Currently running an OCI's worth of Delo/MMO in the Lumina, it is crudded up after years of coolant contamination (now fixed).
_________________________
2004 Jeep GC WJ 4.0 @ 122k Pennzoil HM 10w30 w/MoS2
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 40k, Chevy Lumina 173k, Chrysler Sebring 171k.

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#3425297 - 07/15/14 08:33 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
So I just noticed an issue yesterday. My Jeep almost stalled a couple times when idling or going a few miles an hour in stop and go traffic.
I just filled up the gas tank Saturday, and put in the Lucas Oil fuel treatment w/ 23 gallons gas. (Lucas Oil fuel add. is for up to 20 gallons, IIRC.)
About 5 days before I half-filled the tank with no additives.
About 5-7 days before that I had put 8-10 ounces of MMO in the fuel with about 19 gallons gas.
I'm not going to run any fuel additives for at least 3-6 weeks going forward.

A week ago, did oil change, as mentioned a few posts above.
6 quart engine.
5 quarts Valv Maxlife HM 10w30
1 quart MMO
(I normally use Maxlife HM 5w30.)
This OCI and previous have all used the synth blend of Maxlife. Will switch to a full synth after I run the MMO one more OCI.

I've read on here that once in a while fuel or engine treatments can clean things and uncover problems. Any ideas?

I've got to take it into the shop soon as there's a clunking/clicking sound coming from under the front end when I turn or go over bumps. I'll have them look at the stalling issue but I also like to get multiple opinions.

Thanks.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3425815 - 07/15/14 06:50 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4611
Loc: Mahzurrah!
I am a big fan of MMO but IMO running a full quart with a relatively thin 10w30 in the heat of summer leaves you with an oil that is just too thin for best results in the venerable 4.0.

I'd run a quart of it with 10w40 without concern, but since it's summer more likely 15w40.
_________________________
2004 Jeep GC WJ 4.0 @ 122k Pennzoil HM 10w30 w/MoS2
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 40k, Chevy Lumina 173k, Chrysler Sebring 171k.

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#3426051 - 07/15/14 10:30 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: KCJeep]
Finz Offline


Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 411
Loc: Northern NJ
+1

With a 6 qt sump, 5 qts of MaxLife 10w-30 and 1 qt MMO yields an 8.34 cSt at 100 degrees c according to widman.biz

Am I correct that MMO at 100 degrees is about 2.6+ cSt?

Not familiar with Jeeps but it appears that a lot of owners here lean toward 10w-30 and the MaxLife HM out of the bottle shows a cSt of 10.7. 5w-30 shows the same value at 100 degrees

That 8.34 compared to 10.7 seems pretty light
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06 Odyssey
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11 Civic 1.8 sedan
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#3426272 - 07/16/14 08:01 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Finz]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: Finz
+1

With a 6 qt sump, 5 qts of MaxLife 10w-30 and 1 qt MMO yields an 8.34 cSt at 100 degrees c according to widman.biz

Am I correct that MMO at 100 degrees is about 2.6+ cSt?

Not familiar with Jeeps but it appears that a lot of owners here lean toward 10w-30 and the MaxLife HM out of the bottle shows a cSt of 10.7. 5w-30 shows the same value at 100 degrees

That 8.34 compared to 10.7 seems pretty light




Thank you for the replies.
1. Could you explain this a little more? Want is cSt?
2. Should I make this a short OCI, and change it again in 1000 miles?
3. Can I mix a thicker Valvoline oil (not Maxlife) by adding a half quart if the oil goes down a little? Based on other threads I've read I'm guessing it doesn't, but I'd like to be sure.

Thank you.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3426655 - 07/16/14 03:53 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
05LGTLtd Offline


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 747
Loc: Va
Last time I was at walmart I picked up a Pint of Rislone Concentrate to add to the stash...
_________________________
2005 Legacy GT, M1 TDT
2010 Forester SOHC, SynPower 5w-30

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#3426659 - 07/16/14 04:06 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: badtlc]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7369
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: badtlc
are you trying to tell a tribologist and blender you know more about oil and how additives work than he does?




Ha.

Awesome.



Molekule. Thanks for sharing that tidbit of info.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3426727 - 07/16/14 05:32 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Finz Offline


Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 411
Loc: Northern NJ
I was afraid you were going to ask me this as I may well make a fool of myself trying to elaborate with so many experts in the neighborhood

Let me start by stating that I am familiar with cSt because of this site and I recognize the jargon but to provide a detailed explanation would be best left to others... Here's what I jutst pulled from a google search:

Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a st­andard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid. Since viscosity varies inversely with temperature, its value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is determined. With petroleum oils, viscosity is now commonly reported in centistokes (cSt), measured at either 40°C or 100 °C (ASTM Method D445 - Kinematic Viscosity).
The centistoke rating is converted into the SAE weight designation using a chart like the one shown on the Superior Lubricants Web site.

Ok, in my terms: the cSt represents the oil's ability to flow/do it's job at a given temp... Most common benchmarks being 40 and 100 centigrade (aka: a cold and hot engine)

I looked at other postings here and via google to see what most users with your same vehicle were using: predominantly 10W-30 or 10W-40.

In your case, you mentioned you had been using MaxLife HM and KCJeep is using similar (I think) so I went to Valvoline website and viewed the cSt for these oils: 10.7

I recall MMO having a cSt of something in the 2.6 neighborhood from a VOA

I went to www.widman.biz and they have a calculator to help determine a revised cSt when mixing oils. I plugged in the Maxline cSt and the MMO cSt at the proportions you mentioned and it spit out the 8.x I mentioned earlier

What KCJeep mentioned was that your current mix was light... Based on above, compared to the MaxLife 10.x... Especially in the heat of summer.

A shorter OCI would simply mean your jeep is exposed to such light oil for a shorter time frame... Good compared to a longer OCI but exposed nonetheless

Adding a heavier oil would help but to what extent I can't say. First, you would have to drain some of the light mixture to. Make room. Second, the amount of drain/replacement would be dependent exclusively on the particulars of the new oil.

Sorry for the long replay and I just realized you didn't ask HOW I arrived at those numbers... LOL - a lot of typing for nothing but I'm not deleting it

What kind of issues might arise from using to light an oil? I can't say but it simply can't be good

If it were me, I would drain entirely and get something in there closer to what the car is spec'd for... But I'm paranoid about that stuff and there are far more knowledgable people in here to give you more definitive answer as to what to do next

-- bob
_________________________
God Bless America... We really need it about now

06 Odyssey
06 Civic coupe
05 Accord 2.4 sedan
11 Civic 1.8 sedan
98 Accord 2.3 sedan

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#3427213 - 07/17/14 07:50 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Finz]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: Finz
I was afraid you were going to ask me this as I may well make a fool of myself trying to elaborate with so many experts in the neighborhood

Let me start by stating that I am familiar with cSt because of this site and I recognize the jargon but to provide a detailed explanation would be best left to others... Here's what I jutst pulled from a google search:

Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a st­andard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid. Since viscosity varies inversely with temperature, its value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is determined. With petroleum oils, viscosity is now commonly reported in centistokes (cSt), measured at either 40°C or 100 °C (ASTM Method D445 - Kinematic Viscosity).
The centistoke rating is converted into the SAE weight designation using a chart like the one shown on the Superior Lubricants Web site.

Ok, in my terms: the cSt represents the oil's ability to flow/do it's job at a given temp... Most common benchmarks being 40 and 100 centigrade (aka: a cold and hot engine)

I looked at other postings here and via google to see what most users with your same vehicle were using: predominantly 10W-30 or 10W-40.

In your case, you mentioned you had been using MaxLife HM and KCJeep is using similar (I think) so I went to Valvoline website and viewed the cSt for these oils: 10.7

I recall MMO having a cSt of something in the 2.6 neighborhood from a VOA

I went to www.widman.biz and they have a calculator to help determine a revised cSt when mixing oils. I plugged in the Maxline cSt and the MMO cSt at the proportions you mentioned and it spit out the 8.x I mentioned earlier

What KCJeep mentioned was that your current mix was light... Based on above, compared to the MaxLife 10.x... Especially in the heat of summer.

A shorter OCI would simply mean your jeep is exposed to such light oil for a shorter time frame... Good compared to a longer OCI but exposed nonetheless

Adding a heavier oil would help but to what extent I can't say. First, you would have to drain some of the light mixture to. Make room. Second, the amount of drain/replacement would be dependent exclusively on the particulars of the new oil.

Sorry for the long replay and I just realized you didn't ask HOW I arrived at those numbers... LOL - a lot of typing for nothing but I'm not deleting it

What kind of issues might arise from using to light an oil? I can't say but it simply can't be good

If it were me, I would drain entirely and get something in there closer to what the car is spec'd for... But I'm paranoid about that stuff and there are far more knowledgable people in here to give you more definitive answer as to what to do next

-- bob


That is a lot of research you did. Thank you, good sir!
I am always interested in how people reach conclusions or opinions. I think it ties into wanting to know how things work.

That's good to know about what another Jeep owner is doing. I hadn't even thought of trying to search people's vehicles they list. Normally I put in 5w30. But I put in 10w30 blend, and 1 quart of the MMO. So it's a little heavier than normal, but probably with the MMO it's thinner than the 5w30. I don't currently do the oil changes myself as I don't really know how (I know, it's pretty basic, but I'm not exactly mechanically inclined), and I don't think it would save any money. (Then again, from my experience, people at the quick lube places don't really seem to know much more than I do sometimes.)

If I change it I would just get another oil change. Expensive, but:
1. If it's too thin to protect my engine that could be causing wear.
2. I've been running 5w30 in it from the start (only 1 OCI, mind you), and I have no idea if it was taken care of by the previous owner. So a little more caution may be warranted.

Decisions, decisions . . .

What are the next couple steps up in weight?
5w30
10w30
10w40
??
??

I am thinking of doing 5 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart MMO.

Thanks again, Finz.


Edited by niero (07/17/14 07:54 AM)
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3427917 - 07/17/14 08:33 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Finz Offline


Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 411
Loc: Northern NJ
Niero... I only hope the feedback I've given you even close to correct. I think it is but, again, most of what I've stated has been gleened from the real experts on here and a few google searches

Refer to this link: Widman

You can input your mixtures here and it will calculate for you the resulting cSt. Or, further below on the page, you can input each oil's cSt and what cSt you want, and it will provide you with the proportions of each

Go to Valvoline's website: Valvoline

Click on the MaxLife HM and then click on that oil's Product Info pdf

Note that the cSt for the 10w-40 at 100 centigrade is 14.9

I really need to double check this but I'm fairly sure that MMO's cSt at 100 centigrade is 2.6... Again, I found this a while ago in the Virgin Oil Analysis section of BITOG... You can confirm this value as well

Here, too, confirm this, but my quick look around tells me that either 10W-30 or 10w-40 is widely used by others driving your car

KCJeep also suggested using 10w-40 if you were to mix with MMO

Refer to the MaxLife PDF again and note that the 10w-30 cSt at 100 is 10.7. Since this is a popular oil for your vehicle, that will be the benchmark for the cSt.

Now, go back to the widman page and enter those figures:

First oil: 14.9 from Valvoline PDF
2nd oil: 2.6 from MMO VOA section of bitog
Desired: 10.7 to match cSt from MaxLife PDF for the 10w-30 and then hit calculate

You should be using 83% 10w-40 MaxLife and 17% MMO to get the same cSt as MaxLife 10w-30 (I rounded the numbers and would go 85/15 or so)

With regard to running 5w-30 since you've owned, we are now in an area where I can't be of any help to you at all, unfortunately, as I don't know jack about jeeps

I forgot how this started to be honest and I'm not being a smart-arse, but what does the manual call for?

You might consider reviewing the Used Oil Analysis section on bitog and keep paging thru until you find a few listings from guys with your vehicle or you could PM some guys in here who list jeeps in their signature.I'd guess that there are scores of Jeep forums on the net you could take a peek at. Or just go to the PCMO section here and create a post asking which oil is best: indicate what you currently use, you cars mileage and any know problems or issues, the climate, the kind of driving you typically do... All that good stuff. And then duck - you'll probably get dozens of responses and recommendations

Then just start reading thru this forum... Pick a subject and just start looking around. It will blow your mind how much these guys know and how much there IS to consider about oil and stuff

As for changing your own oil, I'll bet there are a thousand + YouTube videos on how to do this and, although a lot dirtier, it's on par with changing a light bulb.

Get a bucket and a wrench/support the car/ pull the plug and wait for oil to drain/unscrew &replace oil filter/put plug back in/fill with oil. Actual "work" time:10 minutes plus time for oil to drain

Here in NNJ, having a shop change synthetic oil, figure about $60+ Doing it yourself, once you have the tools, worst case $30

For 30 minutes work, you have $30 extra your pocket...

Best of luck and happy reading


--bob
_________________________
God Bless America... We really need it about now

06 Odyssey
06 Civic coupe
05 Accord 2.4 sedan
11 Civic 1.8 sedan
98 Accord 2.3 sedan

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#3428285 - 07/18/14 08:26 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Finz]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: Finz
Niero... I only hope the feedback I've given you even close to correct. I think it is but, again, most of what I've stated has been gleened from the real experts on here and a few google searches

Refer to this link: Widman

You can input your mixtures here and it will calculate for you the resulting cSt. Or, further below on the page, you can input each oil's cSt and what cSt you want, and it will provide you with the proportions of each

Go to Valvoline's website: Valvoline

Click on the MaxLife HM and then click on that oil's Product Info pdf

Note that the cSt for the 10w-40 at 100 centigrade is 14.9

I really need to double check this but I'm fairly sure that MMO's cSt at 100 centigrade is 2.6... Again, I found this a while ago in the Virgin Oil Analysis section of BITOG... You can confirm this value as well

Here, too, confirm this, but my quick look around tells me that either 10W-30 or 10w-40 is widely used by others driving your car

KCJeep also suggested using 10w-40 if you were to mix with MMO

Refer to the MaxLife PDF again and note that the 10w-30 cSt at 100 is 10.7. Since this is a popular oil for your vehicle, that will be the benchmark for the cSt.

Now, go back to the widman page and enter those figures:

First oil: 14.9 from Valvoline PDF
2nd oil: 2.6 from MMO VOA section of bitog
Desired: 10.7 to match cSt from MaxLife PDF for the 10w-30 and then hit calculate

You should be using 83% 10w-40 MaxLife and 17% MMO to get the same cSt as MaxLife 10w-30 (I rounded the numbers and would go 85/15 or so)

With regard to running 5w-30 since you've owned, we are now in an area where I can't be of any help to you at all, unfortunately, as I don't know jack about jeeps

I forgot how this started to be honest and I'm not being a smart-arse, but what does the manual call for?

You might consider reviewing the Used Oil Analysis section on bitog and keep paging thru until you find a few listings from guys with your vehicle or you could PM some guys in here who list jeeps in their signature.I'd guess that there are scores of Jeep forums on the net you could take a peek at. Or just go to the PCMO section here and create a post asking which oil is best: indicate what you currently use, you cars mileage and any know problems or issues, the climate, the kind of driving you typically do... All that good stuff. And then duck - you'll probably get dozens of responses and recommendations

Then just start reading thru this forum... Pick a subject and just start looking around. It will blow your mind how much these guys know and how much there IS to consider about oil and stuff

As for changing your own oil, I'll bet there are a thousand + YouTube videos on how to do this and, although a lot dirtier, it's on par with changing a light bulb.

Get a bucket and a wrench/support the car/ pull the plug and wait for oil to drain/unscrew &replace oil filter/put plug back in/fill with oil. Actual "work" time:10 minutes plus time for oil to drain

Here in NNJ, having a shop change synthetic oil, figure about $60+ Doing it yourself, once you have the tools, worst case $30

For 30 minutes work, you have $30 extra your pocket...

Best of luck and happy reading


--bob


Thanks, Finz. That is good info and I really appreciate the explanations. I've been doing a little research and I'll take a look at that link you posted. Based on what you and others on here have said I'm definitely going to make this a short OCI. I may end up changing the oil within a week, to be safe. We'll see.

Regarding running 5w30 since I've owned it (in the previous engine), I definitely won't be doing that. Maybe in the winter since it gets pretty [censored] cold up here but from now on it will be 10w30 or w/ an engine treatment like MMO, 10w40, at least.

Thanks again smile
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3446572 - 08/05/14 10:29 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
137_Trenton Offline


Registered: 03/27/14
Posts: 27
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Do you have reason to suspect that the engine needs cleaning?
If not, just use any decent oil on reasonable drain intervals and you'll be doing all you can to protect the engine.
Any recent API spec oil will keep an engine clean as long as it isn't run too long. How long will depend upon the use you make of the machine.
If you do decide to run a full quart of MMO, I'd make the rest of the oil a 10W-40.


If you have hard evidence you have sludge in your engine, try this from Rislone:

Rislone Engine Treatment

It has special (slow) cleaners and additional friction modifiers. It is a 5W20 so don't run the mix over 500 miles.


If you do not have any evidence of sludge, just run a synthetic 10W30 like Pennzoil Platinum.

But since you said

Quote:
I have a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi, 4.0 liter, inline 6cyl. Had the engine replaced a few months ago. The "new" engine has about 168K miles. New sparks and wires about 4000 miles ago.


How can you put 168k on an engine you just replaced a few months ago?


I would like to know how you go from saying the additive has no advantages whatsoever here http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=474888, to now recommending it to someone confused

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#3446786 - 08/05/14 02:21 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3350
Loc: SE PA
There are *two* products. Top two in the link.
http://rislone.ca/catalog/brand/all/component/engine One is an engine cleaner. The other claims to reduce wear.

See if you can determine the difference. Besides the two different part numbers and bottle designs.


Edited by Trajan (08/05/14 02:23 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3446801 - 08/05/14 02:30 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Trajan]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3791
Loc: KC
The top two products in your link are the same product.
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 110k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv PP 5W-20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 35k+

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#3446814 - 08/05/14 02:46 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: badtlc]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3350
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: badtlc
The top two products in your link are the same product.


No they're not.


Engine Treatment

Keeps Engines Clean
Part Number:34100 Dosage:In passenger car and light truck engines, use one bottle for a 4 to 6 liter system. Example: If using when changing oil and you have a 5 liter crankcase capacity, use 4 liters of oil and 1 liter of Rislone Engine Treatment. For larger systems, stationaSize:1 L (32 fl. oz.)


Engine Treatment Concentrate

Reduces Friction and Wear
Part Number:34102 Dosage:In passenger car and light truck engines, use one bottle for a 3.5 to 6 liter system. For larger systems, stationary engines and diesel trucks, use 1 bottle for every 5 liters of oil capacity.Size:500 mL (16.9 fl. oz.)


Edited by Trajan (08/05/14 02:48 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3446854 - 08/05/14 03:32 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Trajan]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3791
Loc: KC
Read the front of the bottles. One is the concentrated version of the other. Click on each product and read the pages there. They list the same problems/benefits.


Edited by badtlc (08/05/14 03:34 PM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 110k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv PP 5W-20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 35k+

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#3454885 - 08/13/14 10:09 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
carmine_ricca Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Pa
I have been thinking about doing this for a few years now but didn't. I agree with the MMO, but as for the carrier oil I don't know. If you did this would change the filter also? It would make sense to even put a cheaper filter on just for the cleaning then drain, refill with your favorite oil. What do you think

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#3455172 - 08/14/14 11:09 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: carmine_ricca]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: carmine_ricca
I have been thinking about doing this for a few years now but didn't. I agree with the MMO, but as for the carrier oil I don't know. If you did this would change the filter also? It would make sense to even put a cheaper filter on just for the cleaning then drain, refill with your favorite oil. What do you think


Hi Carmine,

I would change the oil filter, definitely. I can't recommend what type of oil filter to use because I don't know enough about them. I'm using whatever the shop puts on. If I move out of downtown and it's easier to change my oil myself, I'll probably chock up the money for higher performance filters.
I had 5w30 in my Jeep. I used 10w30 when I put in the MMO, to help a little with viscosity. I may go one step thicker next time.

I'm about 1000 or so miles into this OCI. Next OCI I'm also going to do MMO, just to make sure I get a good, thorough cleaning.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3455244 - 08/14/14 12:07 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
carmine_ricca Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Pa
I think what I would do is put a Walmart filter on, 1 qt of MMO then fill the rest with 5w-30. I did this partially this last oil change, I put 20 ounces of MMO in and ran it a few weeks, the oil came out black. After I refilled it I checked the oil and noticed the dip stick was even clean. MMO does seem to work. Carmine

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#3460387 - 08/20/14 02:18 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
jk_636 Offline


Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 383
Loc: Texas


I use MMO every oil change with 5-20 in my dodge. Use with confidence, it is great stuff for passive cleaning!
_________________________
2006 Dodge Ram 1500 4.7 [Dino + Pureone]
2012 Ford Escape 3.0 [Royal Purple + Purolator Synthetic]

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#3465900 - 08/26/14 11:01 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: jk_636]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
I don't think I would want to put anything in my engine that would make it explode AND radioactive. grin2
_________________________
My bank has a service where they text me my balance every afternoon. I just don’t think they should add “LOL” to the end. smile

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#3465905 - 08/26/14 11:07 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
jk_636 Offline


Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 383
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I don't think I would want to put anything in my engine that would make it explode AND radioactive. grin2


You have to love '50s advertisements!
_________________________
2006 Dodge Ram 1500 4.7 [Dino + Pureone]
2012 Ford Escape 3.0 [Royal Purple + Purolator Synthetic]

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