1940 farmall H...convert to detergent oil??

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I know this question has been beat to death on the internet...yet I'm still undecided. When we got our H a couple years ago, the guy said he had always run non-detergent 30w and the guy he got it from did as well. So I have also. We only use it for parades and rides around the house basically so it's not getting worked hard. I change the oil every spring, and store it all fall/winter. There's only about 1/4"-3/8" of sludge in the bottom of the oil pan from what I can tell. I only reached my finger into it though, didn't pull the pan. I've never pulled the engine apart at all to look either. This tractor runs great and doesn't burn oil at all...the exhaust is invisible for all intensive purposes.
Is it worth switching to a detergent oil. I would really like to but not at the expense of problems. I don't want to start burning oil or clog something up and do engine damage. Not worth the chance in my situation as far as I can tell. thoughts? thanks
 
also, i'm guessing with only that much sludge that the tractor has had plenty of detergent oil during it's life, but probably not in a number of years.
 
I use modern oil in every piece of equipment, regardless of age, from vintage OPE's, to Ford 8N and 9N's and even my Willys Jeep.

Personally, I would take the time to remove the pan and clean it though as it would simply bug me.
 
I wouldn't do it for a number of reasons.

First, that sludge on the bottom of the pan tells you that there is sludge throughout the motor. Once you add a detergent oil, all of that is going to come loose and possibly clog your oil passages. Even dropping the pan and removing the valve cover to get at the sludge inside, there will still be nooks and crannies you will not be able to reach.

Secondly, the motor on this old tractor was designed to run on non-detergent oil. A detergent oil will hold wear particles in suspension causing increased wear.

Third, (and I know this is a redneck reason), I imagine with all those years of running non-detergent, the rings probably have some gunk built up around them. My fear in using a detergent oil is that it would clean everything so well that you'll start seeing oil consumption.

If it were mine, the most I would do is drop the pan, clean the sludge, remove the valve cover, clean the sludge, reinstall and fill with a quality non-detergent oil. Like so many have said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
 
I bought a used 65 Mustang that had been run on ND oil. I changed the oil to QS 10W30 oil and within minutes it loosened enough sludge to jam the oil pump, shearing the shaft the drove the oil pump from the dist.

If it was mine, I would get the current oil analyzed to find out for sure. If its ND, then I would go from ND to detergent by small percentages (like a cup more at a time). Change the filter during the process. Keep eye on oil pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I bought a used 65 Mustang that had been run on ND oil. I changed the oil to QS 10W30 oil and within minutes it loosened enough sludge to jam the oil pump, shearing the shaft the drove the oil pump from the dist.

If it was mine, I would get the current oil analyzed to find out for sure. If its ND, then I would go from ND to detergent by small percentages (like a cup more at a time). Change the filter during the process. Keep eye on oil pressure.


Yep, found out the same thing the hard way with my very first truck, a 1958 Chevy Apache. Ran it for a year on non-detergent and then my dear ole Papa convinced me "Valvoline 10W40 would clean it right up." That Valvoline cleaned the motor so well it sent every lump of sludge right to the oil pump pick up screen. The results were not pretty.
 
My father told me he encountered the same situation back in the 1960s, where the sludge would gather in front of the oil pump pickup, and that would lead to zero oil pressure.

He also said that sometimes when an engine was switched to detergent oil, the oil would soon leak because the engine sludge formed a sort of barrier between the engine and the old oil seals and gaskets.
 
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
I use modern oil in every piece of equipment, regardless of age, from vintage OPE's, to Ford 8N and 9N's and even my Willys Jeep.

Personally, I would take the time to remove the pan and clean it though as it would simply bug me.


Good advice.

I would take the engine out and tank it in a solvent to remove sludge in all the nooks and crannies.

The reason it has sludge buildup throughout the engine is precisely because this tractor was run on Non-detergent oil.

Old Farmers myths never seem to go away.
 
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Sure taking the engine out and tanking it would clean it up, but in reality, it is not an easy job to do that on an old farmall. In fact if you were to spend all the work to do that, you might as well just overhaul it while you are at it. And if you are going to do that, just run the same oil as always for the next who knows how many years till it finally (if ever) wears out, then overhaul it. It has worked this way for many years, and will probably continue to do so for many more, especially with the use it gets now.

P.S. to the people that suggested taking the valve cover off--- all these old tractors are L head engines, therefore no valve cover, unless you are referring to the side cover for the lifters.
 
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Yep, one has a number of options and some are "penny-wise and pound-foolish."

I have worked on Ford 9Ns, AC WD series, and Olivers.

It depends on how long you want the engine to last without being rebuilt every three years, and how much time you put on the engine.

If I had a "parade" tractor I would tank the engine, rebuild the engine once and use a modern detergent oil, fire it up once a month to temp to keep the rust off the cylinder walls and drive moisture out of the oil, etc.

For the OP above who doesn't want to rebuild it, I would clean the pan and use a mineral base API SF to SG detergent oil.

DG brand and others still sell this API classification.
 
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Wrong!

Farmall did NOT use an L head engine! The H is an overhead valve engine. Removing the valve cover will reveal all 8 valves, their rockers and the pushrods.
 
When I get a "new" tractor in, my standard routine includes dropping the oil pan to clean out the inevitable sludge. On your H you will find the the screen on the floating oil pickup will be dirty or partially clogged already.

Honestly, the engine in an old H is pretty simple and there's not much space other than the pan and top of the head for sludge to accumulate. Pull the pan and valve cover and clean up what's there. Remove and clean the oil pickup screen. Change the oil filter and you are good to go. Use a good multigrade oil appropriate for your climate temps.

I have over thirty old Farmalls, including a couple of H's. I run 15W-40 mixed fleet oils in all of them. Old stuff that leaks or burns oil does so because something's worn out, not because of oil myths.
 
I had a 1950 Mercury, don't know what oil the previous owner used. I used non-detergent Amalie from 1958 until 1962, she used about a quart every 1,000 miles or so. In 1962 had a Shell station change the oil, the said they Uses Shell X100.

A few nights later drove about 70 miles running 60-80, later about 40 MPH was all the Mercury would go and had loud noise from engine. Got it to a garage, engine was torn down, every ring was broken, a Mercury V8 has 4 rings per cylinder. The mechanic, and school friend told me the High detergent X100 appeared to have cleaned ALL the carbon between the rings and pistons. This allowed the ring bounce up and down breaking all except 1 out of 34 rings.

DON'T put a High Detergent oil in a untouched engine antique engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Electrajoe
I had a 1950 Mercury, don't know what oil the previous owner used. I used non-detergent Amalie from 1958 until 1962, she used about a quart every 1,000 miles or so. In 1962 had a Shell station change the oil, the said they Uses Shell X100.

A few nights later drove about 70 miles running 60-80, later about 40 MPH was all the Mercury would go and had loud noise from engine. Got it to a garage, engine was torn down, every ring was broken, a Mercury V8 has 4 rings per cylinder. The mechanic, and school friend told me the High detergent X100 appeared to have cleaned ALL the carbon between the rings and pistons. This allowed the ring bounce up and down breaking all except 1 out of 34 rings.

DON'T put a High Detergent oil in a untouched engine antique engine.



Yep, that why I suggested,
Quote:
For the OP above who doesn't want to rebuild it, I would clean the pan and use a mineral base API SF to SG detergent oil.

DG brand and others still sell this API classification.


The detergent levels and cleaning ability of these oils would be slow and methodical.
smile.gif
 
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PYB 5/10w-30 is all the farmalls sees on our farm, grampa used nothing but PYB, and we are to keep it up for now. never a problem, oil cleans over time, not the first ten minutes.
If your consern is sludge breaking up, start with a frankenbrew.
1qt detergent oil remainder ND30, next service 1.5-2qt(s) detergent oil, and so on.

ken
 
Manually clean out the big stuff and accumulated gunk layer then let the oil clean the rest. Just don't try and flush the engine with something like kreen of fuel oil.
 
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