Assuming two ADBVs have the same mechanical features, and the only difference is the material. Also assume they are subjected to the same usage, how much more service life can silicon provide?
Nitrile vs Silicon
- Thread starter Jonny Z
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From the above quote, you can see that the advantage silicone has over nitrile depends on how long the ADBV is exposed to temperatures in excess of 258F. I have no idea if such a temperature is commonly reached in the oil filter area (remember, it's not only the oil temperature we're concerned with here, but the temperature of the surrounding metal, as well).
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If that's the killer temp ...then I think very few ever see it. I also think that it's probably a situtation of "the closer you are to 258F, the faster the nitrile will harden when compared to silicon". Since I truly doubt that anyone here reaches that temp too often under any service duty.
I have seen nitrile ADBVs harden, I never never seen a silicone ADBV harden. At what point it hardens probably varies greaty with the engine and conditions. Cutting apart your old filters would be the only way to determine if your vehicle needs an ADBV. I's say it's a good idea for any Extended drain to run a silicone ADBV.
-T
-T
Another question is which Nitrile? 20 years ago when I worked for a wire manufacturer, I never compounded rubber, but did see the formulations. Besides one of a number of base polymers, there were curing agents, fillers, stabilizers, accelerators, and magic drops, about 14 different ingredients in each grade. There were variations of the ratios of the ingredients. Not all Nitriles are going to be alike. Same with the Silicones.
Likely the filters that cut corners on media, cut corners on the grade of rubber in the ABDV. Just because Fram Nitriles harden with age doesn't mean Champ, Purolator, and Hastings will. As you move up in price, where some have Nitrile and some silicone, a good Nitrile may hold up as good as a crummy silicone. At the top end, I would hope that for $10, you get a silicone that will outlast even the longest OCI the Germans are specifying.
In thinking about that 258 degrees, I would expect at the base of the engine, well away from the combustion chamber, where most oil filters live, most of the heat would come from the oil itself. I don't see it heating the ADBV that hot.
Likely the filters that cut corners on media, cut corners on the grade of rubber in the ABDV. Just because Fram Nitriles harden with age doesn't mean Champ, Purolator, and Hastings will. As you move up in price, where some have Nitrile and some silicone, a good Nitrile may hold up as good as a crummy silicone. At the top end, I would hope that for $10, you get a silicone that will outlast even the longest OCI the Germans are specifying.
In thinking about that 258 degrees, I would expect at the base of the engine, well away from the combustion chamber, where most oil filters live, most of the heat would come from the oil itself. I don't see it heating the ADBV that hot.
Indeed there are differences, but a quick search of McMaster-Carr however shows nitrile only up to 201-300deg F, where as silicone goes up to 600deg F. It also shows nitrile as being almost 1/3 the price of silicone.
As for how hot the oil gets, I think the ADBV can be considered close to sump temp, since the oil goes directly from the pan to the filter.
-T
I think the nitrile used is a 70 durometer version.
That tells us how hard it is. And little else...quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
Which means what, exactly?
I believe FilterGuy is indicating that the Nitrile ADBVs are molded from 70 durometer material.
As I remember, from some years spent in the rubber industry, silicone compounds typically run 50 or 60 durometer and thus are softer to begin with.
Silicone has less tensile strength than nitrile and is more susceptible to abrasion & tears. But it does have better high temp properties.
The durometer is a little hand sized thing with a flat base and a small, spring loaded pin sticking out of it. Push it against the test material and a scale shows how far the spring compresses, the harder the material, the further. They are difficult to produce consistent readings from one person to the next.
Rubbers and plastics can be formulated to a wide range of hardness. Softer is usually more expensive. Retention, still soft after heat aging and oil extraction is even more expensive. Worked a lot on this 20 years ago when my employer was supplying molding compound for automotive wiring harnesses.
Rubbers and plastics can be formulated to a wide range of hardness. Softer is usually more expensive. Retention, still soft after heat aging and oil extraction is even more expensive. Worked a lot on this 20 years ago when my employer was supplying molding compound for automotive wiring harnesses.
A good description by labman of a basic durometer tester. I remember handheld units used on the manufacturing floor that were indeed, highly dependent, on the skill of the operator!
Anything close to the specification limit had to be carried to the lab for testing on a more sophisticated instrument!
Here's a simple comparison of silicone vs. high temp Nitrile from Dow-Corning, a well known silicone supplier.
Anything close to the specification limit had to be carried to the lab for testing on a more sophisticated instrument!
Here's a simple comparison of silicone vs. high temp Nitrile from Dow-Corning, a well known silicone supplier.
Note: Don't percieve the temperatures listed as absolute limits since individual compounds can be tweaked for slightly better performance.
Concur, -T. That's why I go for silicone ADBV's, 'cause even the worst of them are at least as good as the best nitrile... and I suspect that companies that go to the lengths of using silicone aren't then going to use crap... but you never know, right?
Good question. Silicone is more expensive and ''better''. However if you are using a filter with Nitrile, and do not have start up noise, fast oil pressure build on start, and finally a filter full of oil when you change it, I see no reason to cough up for a filter with silicone. Perhaps Ray H's ''"I-pay-the-most" oil snoots!'' would. (snots, snobs?) See http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002746;p=1#000002
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