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#3411824 - 07/01/14 04:21 PM New To BMW and Synthetics
camrydriver111 Offline


Registered: 07/01/14
Posts: 2
Loc: Canada
Hi all,

Great to be a part of this community, very impressed by the dedication to engine oil. I have two questions for you oil experts. I have a 2005 325i with 150k km. This is my first German car and first car that requires synthetic oil. I've already figured out that I should use LL-01 certified oil. Choices are limited where I live. I was able to find Castrol EDGE 5W40 LL-01 certified oil on sale and used it for my first oil change.

My question is: is the 5W40 oil too thick for Canadian winters? Is there any negative consequence of using this oil in the winter? It gets maybe -25 Celsius here on a really bad day. Usually it's not that cold though and it's just a few degrees below zero.

5W40 Castrol Edge LL-01 certified is:

100 degree viscosity is 13.9
40 degree viscosity is 82.6

0W30 Castrol Edge, which is also LL-01 certified, is a bit thinner. I didn't see this oil in 5L jugs though.

100 degree viscosity is 12.21
40 degree viscosity is 72.0

Mobil 1 0W40 is also readily available here:

100 degree viscosity is 13.5
40 degree viscosity is 75

All these oils are LL-01 but the viscosity varies a bit. Does it matter which one I use in my DD?

Second question is: what kind of oil change interval should I follow? I drive about 10-13k km per year. Mostly short trips. So I was thinking once a year or 10k km on synthetic oil should be good.


Edited by camrydriver111 (07/01/14 04:25 PM)

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#3411834 - 07/01/14 04:43 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
strat81 Offline


Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 809
Loc: Nebraska
Any of those 3 oils is fine, even the 5W-40 in -25*C. I like M1, so I'd say use that, but really, buy whatever is cheaper, easier to get, or makes you sleep better at night.

With that mileage, one OCI per year sounds fine.

Nice car!
_________________________
Molon Labe

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#3411836 - 07/01/14 04:44 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1706
Loc: London, England
I don't think Castrol is available in 5 litre containers.

I have only ever seen it in 1, 2 and 4 litres.

I have never used thinner oil in the winter unless it was specced in the handbook.

I have used a ticker oil in summer, most of my cars have used 5w30 of some description for several years, almost exclusively since Jan 2004.

If Mobil 1 0w40 meets all the specs you need and is an approved viscosity for your engine then that is what I would use.

I have had good service over the years with Mobil 1 0w40, both New Life and Turbo Diesel, not HDEO, the European Turbo Diesel.

I did look it up on the UK Mobil site and it advised 0w30 ESP

"b. Petrol engine oil viscosity recommendations: -20C to 10C, 10W-30; -20C to 20C, 10W-40; above -15C, 15W-40; below 10C, 5W-30; below 0C, 5W-20. Oils listed and approved under BMW 'Longlife Oils' for all year round use: 0W-X and 5W-X"

Was in the comments section.



Edited by bigjl (07/01/14 04:49 PM)
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,133k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci Sold with 125k
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 118k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3411860 - 07/01/14 05:41 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: bigjl]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11669
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I don't think Castrol is available in 5 litre containers.

Here, the larger jugs (possibly 5 L, but more likely 4.4 L, given Wakefield's preferences) of Castrol 0w-40 would be worth considering. Considering the M1 0w-40 isn't available in larger containers up here (nor is GC), the Castrol 0w-40 might be most cost effective.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3411862 - 07/01/14 05:43 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1103
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Hi all,

Great to be a part of this community, very impressed by the dedication to engine oil. I have two questions for you oil experts. I have a 2005 325i with 150k km. This is my first German car and first car that requires synthetic oil. I've already figured out that I should use LL-01 certified oil. Choices are limited where I live. I was able to find Castrol EDGE 5W40 LL-01 certified oil on sale and used it for my first oil change.

My question is: is the 5W40 oil too thick for Canadian winters? Is there any negative consequence of using this oil in the winter? It gets maybe -25 Celsius here on a really bad day. Usually it's not that cold though and it's just a few degrees below zero.

5W40 Castrol Edge LL-01 certified is:

100 degree viscosity is 13.9
40 degree viscosity is 82.6

0W30 Castrol Edge, which is also LL-01 certified, is a bit thinner. I didn't see this oil in 5L jugs though.

100 degree viscosity is 12.21
40 degree viscosity is 72.0

Mobil 1 0W40 is also readily available here:

100 degree viscosity is 13.5
40 degree viscosity is 75

All these oils are LL-01 but the viscosity varies a bit. Does it matter which one I use in my DD?

Second question is: what kind of oil change interval should I follow? I drive about 10-13k km per year. Mostly short trips. So I was thinking once a year or 10k km on synthetic oil should be good.

I would personally stay away from castrol 5W40. Although it mets LL-01, it does not meet MB 229.5, which is very important.
My choice:
1. Castrol 0W30
2. Mobil1 0W40.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3411891 - 07/01/14 06:43 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
I agree with edyvw that the Castrol Syntec 5w40 isn't a great choice. It did not fare too well in my Audi S4, and the formula looks pretty mediocre.

I think you'd do fine with Mobil 1 0w40 (available everywhere, cheapest at Wal-Mart) or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w40 (some Advance Auto Parts, also cheap on Amazon).

Castrol Edge 0w40 or Valvoline SynPower 5w40 would be my backups.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der strkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3411893 - 07/01/14 06:49 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: dparm]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1103
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: dparm
I agree with edyvw that the Castrol Syntec 5w40 isn't a great choice. It did not fare too well in my Audi S4, and the formula looks pretty mediocre.

I think you'd do fine with Mobil 1 0w40 (available everywhere, cheapest at Wal-Mart) or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w40 (some Advance Auto Parts, also cheap on Amazon).

Castrol Edge 0w40 or Valvoline SynPower 5w40 would be my backups.

For canadian winter, I would go with GC or BC (whatever it is now). In my usage, it proved better during cold months. Also, while M1 became more sheer stable, TBN did not hold very well at all in my UOA. It dropped after 5K from 11.8 to 2.6! I know my engine is DI, OP is not, but still.
Also, Castrol 0W40 is true synthetic oil and has better cold numbers then M1. I think he should be able to find Castrol 0W40 in 5qt jugs in Canada.
Only thing with Castrol 0W40 is that we do not have as many UOA as with M1. But I would say it is better product based on base stocks and numbers, especially for cold areas.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3411965 - 07/01/14 08:10 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
geeman789 Offline


Registered: 04/13/14
Posts: 243
Loc: Northern Alberta, Canada
All good choices...! I use M1 0w40 in the winter in a couple different cars... 5w40 M1 TDT , or ROTELLA T6 in the summer...

But please note... NO engine REQUIRES! synthetic oil. Take any car that specs a synthetic, from a Subaru Impreza right up to a new AMG Mercedes, and all will run equally well on a conventional oil of the right grade, changed at the appropriate interval.

The engine will not blow up if you use conventional, really. However, if you use conventional for 25 000 km's, it might...

Synthetic oils usually last longer, work better in extreme cold, and may perform better in extremely heavy duty use, as in sustained high oil temps while racing...
_________________________
2011 SUBARU Impreza AWD 5 spd.


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#3412012 - 07/01/14 08:55 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: geeman789]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1103
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: geeman789
All good choices...! I use M1 0w40 in the winter in a couple different cars... 5w40 M1 TDT , or ROTELLA T6 in the summer...

But please note... NO engine REQUIRES! synthetic oil. Take any car that specs a synthetic, from a Subaru Impreza right up to a new AMG Mercedes, and all will run equally well on a conventional oil of the right grade, changed at the appropriate interval.

The engine will not blow up if you use conventional, really. However, if you use conventional for 25 000 km's, it might...

Synthetic oils usually last longer, work better in extreme cold, and may perform better in extremely heavy duty use, as in sustained high oil temps while racing...



Did you ever hear for sludge?
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3412013 - 07/01/14 08:55 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: geeman789]
ElastoHydro Offline


Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 218
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: geeman789
But please note... NO engine REQUIRES! synthetic oil. Take any car that specs a synthetic, from a Subaru Impreza right up to a new AMG Mercedes, and all will run equally well on a conventional oil of the right grade, changed at the appropriate interval.

The engine will not blow up if you use conventional, really. However, if you use conventional for 25 000 km's, it might...

Synthetic oils usually last longer, work better in extreme cold, and may perform better in extremely heavy duty use, as in sustained high oil temps while racing...


Except you don't know that. The problem with conventional dino is that it may not stand up to turbo-heat, ring pack heat, journal bearing shear, foaming, etc. that matter every mile you drive, from a fresh oil change forward. Dino puts down more deposits according to Lubrizol's discussion at Article Link Click Here Also, notice dexos1 oils are not dino conventional.

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#3412017 - 07/01/14 08:58 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: ElastoHydro]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1103
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: geeman789
But please note... NO engine REQUIRES! synthetic oil. Take any car that specs a synthetic, from a Subaru Impreza right up to a new AMG Mercedes, and all will run equally well on a conventional oil of the right grade, changed at the appropriate interval.

The engine will not blow up if you use conventional, really. However, if you use conventional for 25 000 km's, it might...

Synthetic oils usually last longer, work better in extreme cold, and may perform better in extremely heavy duty use, as in sustained high oil temps while racing...


Except you don't know that. The problem with conventional dino is that it may not stand up to turbo-heat, ring pack heat, journal bearing shear, foaming, etc. that matter every mile you drive, from a fresh oil change forward. Dino puts down more deposits according to Lubrizol's discussion at Article Link Click Here Also, notice dexos1 oils are not dino conventional.

Precisly, just ask owners of Audi/VW 1.8T that used conventional oil or VW Passat owners 2.8 V6 (not in that number like 1.8T) about their experiences.
I would really like to see using Dino oil in BMW 335i, or AMG or 2.0T VW/Audi. Some synthetic oils cannot withstand more then 5K.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3412026 - 07/01/14 09:08 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: edyvw]
ElastoHydro Offline


Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 218
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Precisly, just ask owners of Audi/VW 1.8T that used conventional oil or VW Passat owners 2.8 V6 (not in that number like 1.8T) about their experiences.
I would really like to see using Dino oil in BMW 335i, or AMG or 2.0T VW/Audi. Some synthetic oils cannot withstand more then 5K.
What does bother me is that Ford Ecoboost turbo engines only spec dino conventional, and Hyundai turbos too, others I'm sure. Its true this stuff survives 'OK', yet I have to think more deposits and coking occurs with dino choices.

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#3412034 - 07/01/14 09:17 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: ElastoHydro]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6899
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Precisly, just ask owners of Audi/VW 1.8T that used conventional oil or VW Passat owners 2.8 V6 (not in that number like 1.8T) about their experiences.
I would really like to see using Dino oil in BMW 335i, or AMG or 2.0T VW/Audi. Some synthetic oils cannot withstand more then 5K.
What does bother me is that Ford Ecoboost turbo engines only spec dino conventional, and Hyundai turbos too, others I'm sure. Its true this stuff survives 'OK', yet I have to think more deposits and coking occurs with dino choices.

I am not sure of dino oil in turbocharged gasoline engines causes coking if changed every 3000 miles. However, I always find that those engines quickly develop severe varnish. The risk of coking versus simple varnish may vary to car to car, as I am used to seeing VW 1.8T engines with serious problems when conventional is used every 3000 miles. However, when I work on Volvo engines, it seems the varnish is nasty, but the engine runs fine for ages, so long as the conventional gets changed every 3000 miles.

I don't care what a user's manual for a turbocharged gasoline engine allows, I am only going to recommend synthetic. Whenever you read a post about turbocharged gasoline engines, the top 3 responses are M1 0w40, RT6 5w40, and GC.
_________________________
2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback

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#3412046 - 07/01/14 09:33 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
boundarylayer Offline


Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 202
Loc: California
artificialist, I read something the other day about the transit time (loiter) of engine oil in the piston ring area, and it was around 30 seconds. Thats lots of time to cook and make deposits if you're not a stable base oil. I guess its very difficult to shorten that dwell loiter time up there without over wetting the cylinder walls. Also, Kendall compared their semi-syn against the worst conventional dino they could find in a pair of taxis and they noticed their semi-syn left a much cleaner engine at 100,000 miles.

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#3412063 - 07/01/14 09:43 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: artificialist]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1103
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Precisly, just ask owners of Audi/VW 1.8T that used conventional oil or VW Passat owners 2.8 V6 (not in that number like 1.8T) about their experiences.
I would really like to see using Dino oil in BMW 335i, or AMG or 2.0T VW/Audi. Some synthetic oils cannot withstand more then 5K.
What does bother me is that Ford Ecoboost turbo engines only spec dino conventional, and Hyundai turbos too, others I'm sure. Its true this stuff survives 'OK', yet I have to think more deposits and coking occurs with dino choices.

I am not sure of dino oil in turbocharged gasoline engines causes coking if changed every 3000 miles. However, I always find that those engines quickly develop severe varnish. The risk of coking versus simple varnish may vary to car to car, as I am used to seeing VW 1.8T engines with serious problems when conventional is used every 3000 miles. However, when I work on Volvo engines, it seems the varnish is nasty, but the engine runs fine for ages, so long as the conventional gets changed every 3000 miles.

I don't care what a user's manual for a turbocharged gasoline engine allows, I am only going to recommend synthetic. Whenever you read a post about turbocharged gasoline engines, the top 3 responses are M1 0w40, RT6 5w40, and GC.

My friend used M1 5W30 in his Audi A4 1.8T. The reason: He did not want to pay dealership $89 to change oil, so he was going to those 10 minute oil changes. I warned him that that is not proper oil, but he saidČ well, it is synthetic.
I did not want to go into deeper discussion since he knows about cars like I do about nail polish, but after 80K his engine was dead! Sludge was so bad that turbo stayed without oil lubrication and damaged also engine to the point beyond any repair.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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