Recent Topics
Should I switch from Syn to Dino in my Nissan VQ?
by LexAtlanta
09/23/14 07:04 PM
Altima 3.5 hesitation.
by Volv04Life
09/23/14 05:34 PM
Amsoil EA15K50 or Fram Ultra XG10060?
by GM4LIFE
09/23/14 05:13 PM
Sunoco gasoline
by Chuckinator
09/23/14 05:03 PM
Burning smell after driving
by llmercll
09/23/14 05:02 PM
Wagner ThermoQuiet Or QuickStop?
by Warstud
09/23/14 04:51 PM
Will I Destroy my Parking Brake?
by SumpChump
09/23/14 04:50 PM
Fetch Boy Fetch..
by Warstud
09/23/14 04:35 PM
What kind of flower is this?
by tinmanSC
09/23/14 03:38 PM
Yokohama Geolander HTS & ATS experiences?
by 01rangerxl
09/23/14 03:04 PM
Pro-Tec filters?
by leroyd92
09/23/14 02:17 PM
Cooper CS5 Ultra- Ultra Cheap
by clarkflower
09/23/14 01:39 PM
Newest Members
mckeven, Edsel, ROVjr, Dieseltrooper88, bluearc74
51389 Registered Users
Who's Online
100 registered (901Memphis, 1ton, 2004tdigls, 3800Series, 97tbird, 9 invisible), 1857 Guests and 194 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51389 Members
64 Forums
219717 Topics
3467902 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#3426359 - 07/16/14 10:26 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: riggaz]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1035
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
The oil temperature at -30C would be vehicle specific

So wait. Your claim is that at -30, if you drive 100kph you oil will not reach operating temp?


At -30 the wind chill on his diff and sump @ 70mph will be very, very bad so I'd say he is absolutely correct. That's why manufacturers usually give oil recommendations based on ambient temps because they know this happens.

So while your statement that at operating temp they are the same is true, his oils will never get to full operating temp due to his ambient temps.

That is interesting, considering that all cars that I drove and had oil temp. gauge, always reached operating temp even in colder weather.
All cars that I had, that were produced after 1990 had skid plate to protect sump, hoses, etc. Also, there is heat exchanger.
On short distances, of course it will not reach temp, but if you drive longer sure it will, especially in German cars that love to run hot.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

Top
#3426379 - 07/16/14 10:50 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: riggaz]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25626
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: riggaz
At -30 the wind chill on his diff and sump @ 70mph will be very, very bad

Based on what I've read before, machines do not feel wind chill. Wind chill is a term invented by meteorologist in relation to how human skin/body perceives a combination of temperature and wind.

With that said, I too observed slightly lower engine oil operating temps in cold weather on my old 2001 A4 1.8T that had an oil temp gauge. In the summer, it'd be around 190-200F. In winter (ambient temps below freezing), it'd be around 175F or so.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (Spectro 15W-50)

Top
#3426401 - 07/16/14 11:06 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: Quattro Pete]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 242
Loc: England
yeah wind chill is more of a figure of speech

Air does have a cooling effect when things move through it because the heat from said object is constantly being taken away rapidly. The radiator on your car works because of this.

Top
#3426403 - 07/16/14 11:09 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: edyvw]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 242
Loc: England
I think if you go off piste with the viscosity then you really need to check your oil pressure is in the specified range to make sure you've got it right.

Top
#3426658 - 07/16/14 04:00 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: riggaz]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2572
Loc: Upper Midwest
It's the difference between evaporative heat loss and convection. You get convective heat transfer with moving air (as well as still air in the presence of gravity) but since the components are generally not moist you don't get the extra loss from the heat of vaporization.

Originally Posted By: riggaz
yeah wind chill is more of a figure of speech

Air does have a cooling effect when things move through it because the heat from said object is constantly being taken away rapidly. The radiator on your car works because of this.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 189K
1996 Honda Accord, 203K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 304K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 224K

Top
#3426664 - 07/16/14 04:14 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26520
Loc: a prison island
Yep kschchn is correct...wind chill is the effect if evaporating moisture that can mak the wet towel aroub yor neck cooler than the thernometer...an transfer way more heat than. Straight temperature difference would
otherwise do...about as much heat to evaporate a pound of water as getting it from freezing to boiling

Top
#3426669 - 07/16/14 04:16 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: riggaz]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7215
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
The oil temperature at -30C would be vehicle specific

So wait. Your claim is that at -30, if you drive 100kph you oil will not reach operating temp?


At -30 the wind chill on his diff and sump @ 70mph will be very, very bad so I'd say he is absolutely correct. That's why manufacturers usually give oil recommendations based on ambient temps because they know this happens.

So while your statement that at operating temp they are the same is true, his oils will never get to full operating temp due to his ambient temps.



Really.

We experience real -40c cold here in Saskatchewan. My charger runs the same oil temps whether its -40c or 26c like today,it just takes a bit longer to get there,so your mistaken in that regard.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

Top
#3426697 - 07/16/14 04:59 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: Clevy]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11399
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Yep, it's all very application specific. Thanks to the skid plate, the G37's oil temperatures were hotter in -34 C this winter than the taxis' oil temperatures were in +34 C, running all day. The Audi 200, with the oil cooler, did have a noticeable difference between the seasons, but nothing insanely different, with the real change being the time it took to get to temperatures, as you indicate. My F-150, the taxis, and so forth had a bit more noticeable difference..
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3426706 - 07/16/14 05:09 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: edyvw]
Bluestream Offline


Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 3913
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
The oil temperature at -30C would be vehicle specific

So wait. Your claim is that at -30, if you drive 100kph you oil will not reach operating temp?


Yes, differential oil is the above case.

Read this tread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1570468/1
_________________________
2000 Cavalier 2.2 A4
2000 VW Beetle 1.8T M5
2000 Ford Explorer 4.0 4X4
1991 BMW 735iL
"A fool and his money are soon parted" - Thomas Tusser

Top
#3427008 - 07/16/14 09:39 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: Bluestream]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1035
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
The oil temperature at -30C would be vehicle specific

So wait. Your claim is that at -30, if you drive 100kph you oil will not reach operating temp?


Yes, differential oil is the above case.

Read this tread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1570468/1

I thought we are talking about engine oil here?
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

Top
#3427220 - 07/17/14 07:56 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
Bluestream Offline


Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 3913
Loc: Waterloo, ON
read post #3425363
_________________________
2000 Cavalier 2.2 A4
2000 VW Beetle 1.8T M5
2000 Ford Explorer 4.0 4X4
1991 BMW 735iL
"A fool and his money are soon parted" - Thomas Tusser

Top
#3427660 - 07/17/14 03:20 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: OVERKILL]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9485
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bluestream


Maybe you should read the oil article by Dr. Hass. He runs 0W20 in his Ferrari Maranello without issue.


He also:

A) short trips the car
B) does NOT beat on it
C) has the money to replace the engine if he nukes it.

Since I do NOT have a spare $20,000 kicking around to replace the engine in my M5, I'm certainly one of the people not willing to experiment with viscosity choices much thinner than specified by the OEM. Particularly given that nothing of detriment is happening by running the 0w-40 year round. And fuel consumption, given how I drive the thing, well, my right foot has a far greater impact on the amount of gas I go through than the grade of oil in the pan.

Correction. Ali has never run a 0W-20 grade per se in his Enzo, it's the RLI 0W-30 that he uses and with a HTHSV in the 3.6-3.8cP range it's operational viscosity is on par with M1 0W-40. An early version of RLI 0W-30 did produce a UOA with a KV100 of about 8cSt with fuel dilution so I guess you could say he did run 0W-20 but that's a stretch IMO.

He of course has oil gauges and his maximum oil temp's don't get above 82C, so regardless of how hard he does or doesn't drive the car he certainly is not taking any changes or "experimenting" he is simply optimizing the operational viscosity in the engine.
It makes a whole lot more sense to run the oil he is running with the way he operates the Enzo than the spec' 10W-60.

In his wife's Lambo' he is running Motorcraft syn-blend 5W-20 (HTHSV 2.65cP) at present. No argument here that he is using a true 20 grade OTC oil. If I'm not mistaken the Audi V8 in this car is spec'd for a A3/B4 5W-30 and 5W-40. Maximum oil temp's have reached 226F and the oil test spec's have been tested apparently but it is still just a street driven car.
One could consider this something of an "experiment" but only due to a lack of info on what the maximum permissible oil temp's would be on the spec' oil or minimum OP. If for the sake of argument it was 300F on a 3.6-3.8cP oil then a 2.65cP oil should be fine up to about 265F and that would be under maximum load conditions.

Ali will be posting a UOA of the Motorcraft oil from the Lambo' in due course. I'm sure it will be good.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

Top
#3427669 - 07/17/14 03:40 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: CATERHAM]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26166
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

He of course has oil gauges and his maximum oil temp's don't get above 82C, so regardless of how hard he does or doesn't drive the car he certainly is not taking any changes or "experimenting" he is simply optimizing the operational viscosity in the engine.
It makes a whole lot more sense to run the oil he is running with the way he operates the Enzo than the spec' 10W-60.


thumbsup Given those operating parameters, that setup makes perfect sense. Glad you were able to shed some additional light on it. Though technically it is still experimenting, as he's running a non-spec lubricant, even if it is still not a huge step down in operational viscosity.

Kind of reminds me of the pre 03/00 M5 guys running M1 0w-40, GC...etc. Technically, those engines were never back-spec'd for the LL-01 oils, they still spec 10w-60. But of course the post 03/00 cars DID get spec'd for LL-01, so while technically an "experiment" as they are running a non-spec lube, it is one done with knowledge of what is essentially the exact same engine calling for the lighter oil with nothing more than a piston ring change.

Quote:
In his wife's Lambo' he is running Motorcraft syn-blend 5W-20 (HTHSV 2.65cP) at present. No argument here that he is using a true 20 grade OTC oil. If I'm not mistaken the Audi V8 in this car is spec'd for a A3/B4 5W-30 and 5W-40. Maximum oil temp's have reached 226F and the oil test spec's have been tested apparently but it is still just a street driven car.
One could consider this something of an "experiment" but only due to a lack of info on what the maximum permissible oil temp's would be on the spec' oil or minimum OP. If for the sake of argument it was 300F on a 3.6-3.8cP oil then a 2.65cP oil should be fine up to about 265F and that would be under maximum load conditions.

Ali will be posting a UOA of the Motorcraft oil from the Lambo' in due course. I'm sure it will be good.


Quite interested to see that, also sounds like oil temps are reasonably well controlled in that application as well. It isn't an experiment I'd do but I do applaud him for his effort. He can afford to do these things and is doing them for the sake of science/experimentation.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
06 Charger R/T

Top
#3427714 - 07/17/14 04:27 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: camrydriver111]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 740
Loc: quebec canada
Was reading the article here on viscosity ,and gees the chart they supplied is an eye opener.a 0w40 or the one step down 5w30 if i aint mistaken have a diff of .3 (sae)2.9 for 0w40 and 2.6 for the 5w30 so basicly they re very close at 150 degree.true an oil maker would benefit huge cred by having it as close to the 100 f value as the hths article (from here but for some reason i cant find on this site.)the higher the hths the better (as close to the 100 as possible the article seems to mean.sadly those hths value were likely the max .
_________________________
Truck driver
Nissan versa note s 2014
Mechanicly inclined

Top
#3427715 - 07/17/14 04:29 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: yvon_la]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26166
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
Was reading the article here on viscosity ,and gees the chart they supplied is an eye opener.a 0w40 or the one step down 5w30 if i aint mistaken have a diff of .3 (sae)2.9 for 0w40 and 2.6 for the 5w30 so basicly they re very close at 150 degree.true an oil maker would benefit huge cred by having it as close to the 100 f value as the hths article (from here but for some reason i cant find on this site.)the higher the hths the better (as close to the 100 as possible the article seems to mean


Depends on the purpose of the lubes. GF-5 5w-30 are around 3.0cp for HTHS, the "euro oils" like M1 0w-40, GC 0w-30, BMW 5w-30...etc all have an HTHS >=3.5cP. M1 0w-40 is 3.8cP IIRC.

The ACEA specs that these oils meet (except the BMW 5w-30, which doesn't officially carry the ACEA spec) calls for a minimum HTHS of 3.5cP.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
06 Charger R/T

Top
Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >