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#3423433 - 07/13/14 11:23 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: bigjl]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12725
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: bigjl

I have never experienced a drop in fuel economy in the winter.

I personally found fuel economy better in winter than summer due to not using aircon.




I use the AC all the time in the winter to defrost windows.
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#3423702 - 07/13/14 06:02 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: Shannow]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Originally Posted By: Shannow
BMWTurboDzl, yep, that's pretty well generally true...historically winter was when they added oxygenates to keep the HC and smog down too...there goes some mileage.

Worst change I've (personally) seen was 10%, switched from SAE30 over summer to 25W70 through winter in my J Car wagon...(albeit only got to -7C)...notably harder cranking, 10% poorer mileage on 10 mile commute, and no perceptible difference on the highway.


25W70 is for girlie boys. Real men use 40W70!

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#3424171 - 07/14/14 08:33 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: dparm]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1746
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: bigjl

I have never experienced a drop in fuel economy in the winter.

I personally found fuel economy better in winter than summer due to not using aircon.




I use the AC all the time in the winter to defrost windows.



That comment was directly related to a poster from the UK that reckoned he had a huge drop in fuel consumption in winter.
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10 BMW 116D SE 110k miles Full BMW Hx
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 132k 5w30 Shell AF-L

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#3424271 - 07/14/14 10:55 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: bigjl]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 523
Loc: England



That comment was directly related to a poster from the UK that reckoned he had a huge drop in fuel consumption in winter.

[/quote]

did I say huge?

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#3425164 - 07/15/14 03:23 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: riggaz]
weasley Offline


Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 411
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: riggaz
did I say huge?


A 40% change in fuel consumption is huge. I live in the UK and barely see a 1 or 2 point change (from, say, 41 mpg (UK) in the summer to 39 mpg in the winter). I use a/c in the summer when it's hot but not in the winter at all (save for a few 'seal conditioning' runs). The main factor in the winter is the cold starting, with thicker oil and a cold block that needs more energy to heat it up. Once at operating temperature the fluids will be more-or-less the same viscosity. If you are genuinely seeing a 40% change then you need it looking at.
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#3425169 - 07/15/14 03:57 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: weasley]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 16910
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
He didn't say 40%, that was someone else. wink
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Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
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#3425248 - 07/15/14 07:41 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: weasley]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 523
Loc: England
Did I say 40%?

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#3425363 - 07/15/14 10:18 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: weasley]
Bluestream Offline


Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 5199
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: riggaz
did I say huge?


A 40% change in fuel consumption is huge. I live in the UK and barely see a 1 or 2 point change (from, say, 41 mpg (UK) in the summer to 39 mpg in the winter). I use a/c in the summer when it's hot but not in the winter at all (save for a few 'seal conditioning' runs). The main factor in the winter is the cold starting, with thicker oil and a cold block that needs more energy to heat it up. Once at operating temperature the fluids will be more-or-less the same viscosity. If you are genuinely seeing a 40% change then you need it looking at.


Quote: The fluids are the same viscosity at operating temp?

Are you kidding? Try driving 100KPH down a highway at -30C with that temperature air blowing over your rear axle. You can stop anytime and touch the axle, and its not even warm. What viscosity do you think that fluid is?
_________________________
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"A fool and his money are soon parted" - Thomas Tusser

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#3425391 - 07/15/14 10:55 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: Bluestream]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 2194
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: riggaz
did I say huge?


A 40% change in fuel consumption is huge. I live in the UK and barely see a 1 or 2 point change (from, say, 41 mpg (UK) in the summer to 39 mpg in the winter). I use a/c in the summer when it's hot but not in the winter at all (save for a few 'seal conditioning' runs). The main factor in the winter is the cold starting, with thicker oil and a cold block that needs more energy to heat it up. Once at operating temperature the fluids will be more-or-less the same viscosity. If you are genuinely seeing a 40% change then you need it looking at.


Quote: The fluids are the same viscosity at operating temp?

Are you kidding? Try driving 100KPH down a highway at -30C with that temperature air blowing over your rear axle. You can stop anytime and touch the axle, and its not even warm. What viscosity do you think that fluid is?

OK, ca you repeat your question?
What temperature is then motor oil if you drive 100kph at -30c (I did many times, so please tell me it is not on operating temp).
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#3425442 - 07/15/14 11:56 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: riggaz]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1746
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: riggaz
For one thing, MPG. My gas consumption goes up 40% in the winter and that is mostly due to thick fluids caused by the cols weather.



You might find it's due to the winter grade fuel as well. It's no way near as "pure" as summer grade fuel. We have a drop in mpg in England on winter fuel so it's probably much worse at your temps.


Yes i believe you did say 40% increase due to "thick" fluids in the winter.

Since a huge percentage of UK vehicles now spec on 5w30 i don't consider that to be a particularly thick fluid.
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12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 132k 5w30 Shell AF-L

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#3425443 - 07/15/14 11:58 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: riggaz]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1746
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Did I say 40%?


Yes.

I have quoted the post for you above.
_________________________
10 BMW 116D SE 110k miles Full BMW Hx
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 132k 5w30 Shell AF-L

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#3425515 - 07/15/14 01:39 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: bigjl]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 30512
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Did I say 40%?


Yes.

I have quoted the post for you above.

He did not write that. He was quoting member Bluestream, but forgot to include the quote tags.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ics#Post3421051
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#3425753 - 07/15/14 05:38 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: edyvw]
Bluestream Offline


Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 5199
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: riggaz
did I say huge?


A 40% change in fuel consumption is huge. I live in the UK and barely see a 1 or 2 point change (from, say, 41 mpg (UK) in the summer to 39 mpg in the winter). I use a/c in the summer when it's hot but not in the winter at all (save for a few 'seal conditioning' runs). The main factor in the winter is the cold starting, with thicker oil and a cold block that needs more energy to heat it up. Once at operating temperature the fluids will be more-or-less the same viscosity. If you are genuinely seeing a 40% change then you need it looking at.


The oil temperature would be vehicle specific at -30C

Quote: The fluids are the same viscosity at operating temp?

Are you kidding? Try driving 100KPH down a highway at -30C with that temperature air blowing over your rear axle. You can stop anytime and touch the axle, and its not even warm. What viscosity do you think that fluid is?

OK, ca you repeat your question?
What temperature is then motor oil if you drive 100kph at -30c (I did many times, so please tell me it is not on operating temp).


The oil temperature at -30C would be vehicle specific


Edited by Bluestream (07/15/14 05:39 PM)
_________________________
2000 Cavalier 2.2 A4
2000 VW Beetle 1.8T M5
2000 Ford Explorer 4.0 4X4
1991 BMW 735iL
"A fool and his money are soon parted" - Thomas Tusser

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#3425831 - 07/15/14 07:04 PM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: Bluestream]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 2194
Loc: Colorado Springs
Quote:
The oil temperature at -30C would be vehicle specific

So wait. Your claim is that at -30, if you drive 100kph you oil will not reach operating temp?
_________________________
13' BMW X5 35d (M1 5W30 ESP + OEM filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+OEM filter)

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#3426138 - 07/16/14 03:40 AM Re: New To BMW and Synthetics [Re: edyvw]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 523
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
The oil temperature at -30C would be vehicle specific

So wait. Your claim is that at -30, if you drive 100kph you oil will not reach operating temp?


At -30 the wind chill on his diff and sump @ 70mph will be very, very bad so I'd say he is absolutely correct. That's why manufacturers usually give oil recommendations based on ambient temps because they know this happens.

So while your statement that at operating temp they are the same is true, his oils will never get to full operating temp due to his ambient temps.


Edited by riggaz (07/16/14 03:45 AM)

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