Penrite Premium 0W-50 (too much zinc?)

Ned_Loh · Jun 30, 2014

Hi,

I have a 2001 Mazda MX5 (1.8 VVT engine) which does about 50% hard track driving, and 50% road driving (a decent amount of the road driving is getting to the track!).

I have been using M1 0W-40, and have been very happy with it, apart from the price. It is a little 'tappy' but no real ill effects.

I can get Penrite Premium 0W-50 for a much better price and I am considering changing. Details on the Penrite here:

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=4&id_products=280

The only thing putting me off is the advertised "FULL ZINC + (EXCEEDING 2200 PPM)"

Will this level of zinc damage my cat convertor?

Any other comments please?

Thanks in advance.

dparm · Jun 30, 2014

It's not 2200ppm of zinc. Read the bottom of the webpage:

*Full Zinc + = Zinc level + Boron level combined as a total anti-wear package

It's 1690ppm of zinc (high, but not dangerous) and then a bunch of other stuff such as:

Ca content, mass % 0.299
B content, mass % 0.064

You should be fine to use it. I wasn't even aware they had a 0w50. Interesting product. They've also got 5w60 and 10w70...unusual viscosities.

boundarylayer · Jun 30, 2014

My understanding is that too much zddp begins attacking the grain boundaries on the surface of the steel parts. About 1700 ppm of zddp shouldn't pose a huge problem, yet I've heard anything over 1400 ppm begins to have a noticeable effect over time. Maybe conservative, so 1700 should be ok we can assume.

901Memphis · Jun 30, 2014

Look at the last posts by Molakule in this thread.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3133666/2

Ned_Loh · Jun 30, 2014

Hi,

Good pick up. I'm still learning

I was looking at this oil as an (almost) direct replacement for M1 0w-40, but after going back to their site now, perhaps I would also consider this 10w-40?

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products-categ.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=3

Any suggestions on which one would be better for my application?

Cheers.

901Memphis · Jun 30, 2014

Are you not able to maintain adequate oil pressure with a synthetic 5w30?

jrustles · Jun 30, 2014

Wasn't there a post on here not long ago where a Mazda engineer was talking about oils, stating that the low Viscosity oil was truly just for fuel economy and that a tracked MX5 should use something thicker-- didn't he mention TWS 10w60?

The Penrite looks like nicely formulated stuff.

dparm · Jun 30, 2014

I'm sure the Penrite will work fine, but is there something wrong with the M1 0w40? Is it not performing to your requirements? Too expensive? Too hard to locate?

901Memphis · Jun 30, 2014

If it was a US vehicle I'd certainly use the Mobil 1 0W40 European Formula for $25 a jug from Walmart but you can probably achieve the same results with something cheaper where you live.

Ned_Loh · Jun 30, 2014

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Are you not able to maintain adequate oil pressure with a synthetic 5w30?

honestly never tried it, and the car doesn't have a gauge fitted that allows accurate assessment. I figured for the track work with (up to) 30 min sessions at sustained 5000rpm to 7200rpm the M1 0w-40 was a good thing.

The question has only come up and the M1 0W-50 is fairly pricey and Penrite list their 0w-50 and direct replacement for the M1 0w-40.

Ned_Loh · Jun 30, 2014

just price.

Plus I pay retail for mobil, but I can get Penrite at trade price. It will work out to a decent difference for me.

Ned_Loh · Jun 30, 2014

I'd be all over that if I could get it. No Walmart in Australia though!

Shannow · Jun 30, 2014

Currently (and this os not a recommendation), in my Navara, I'm running 4L of Penrite Racing 5W-30 (bought on special for under $40 for 5L), and 3L of M1 5W-50 (bought on special at SCA for $36 for 5 l)...cut down the zinc a little, satisfied my mad scientist urges, made a 40, for about 40% of the cost of M1 0W-40.

Grab the 10W-40 racing for $70(ish) bucks would be my recommendation 'though...or wait for the 5W-50 M1 to be back on special under $50.

Ned_Loh · Jul 1, 2014

Originally Posted By: Shannow
M1 5W-50 (bought on special at SCA for $36 for 5 l)...

Unfortunately the SCA was a clearance and they are no longer stocking M1. If I could get M1 for $36 for 5L I wouldn't even be considering changing!

Shannow · Jul 1, 2014

Really they are getting out of M1 ?

Makes sense in that mine only had 2 off 1L containers of 0W40 left and didn't restock the 5s after the sale...didn't grasp the fine print I guess...there goes that brew.

supercity · Jul 1, 2014

Penrite HPR5 5w40 would be the most compareable product to M1 0w40, it has MB229.5 approval and others. HPR0 0w30 would also be close.

ElastoHydro · Jul 1, 2014

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Look at the last posts by Molakule in this thread.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3133666/2

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Currently .
Grab the 10W-40 racing for $70(ish) bucks would be my recommendation 'though...or wait for the 5W-50 M1 to be back on special under $50.

Bad advice Shannow. No more credibility for you! See Molakule's recommendation to not go over 1200 ppm zddp, and your racing oil recommendation fails for a vehicle that sees street use and is expected to last. The 1200 level also explains why Mobil 1 oils don't exceed around 1100 ppm for their entire line of street oils.

aquariuscsm · Jul 1, 2014

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Mobil 1 oils don't exceed around 1100 ppm for their entire line of street oils.

Mobil used to claim a zddp level of 1300ppm in their M1 15W50.

ElastoHydro · Jul 1, 2014

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Mobil 1 oils don't exceed around 1100 ppm for their entire line of street oils.

Mobil used to claim a zddp level of 1300ppm in their M1 15W50.

Actually 1200 ppm, so they are right at the limit. Thats considered a "racing and flat tappet oil" according to Mobil1 at This Link Mobil1 Reference Table and notice that most of their Phosphorous Column amounts are about 1100 max. Molakule emphasized its the phosphorous that attacks grain boundaries over time. Its probably not a pure threshold function, so getting above around 1200 ppm looks to be where trouble can start.

aquariuscsm · Jul 1, 2014

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Mobil 1 oils don't exceed around 1100 ppm for their entire line of street oils.

Mobil used to claim a zddp level of 1300ppm in their M1 15W50.

Actually 1200 ppm, so they are right at the limit. Thats considered a "racing and flat tappet oil" according to Mobil1 at This Link Mobil1 Reference Table and notice that most of their Phosphorous Column amounts are about 1100 max. Molakule emphasized its the phosphorous that attacks grain boundaries over time. Its probably not a pure threshold function, so getting above around 1200 ppm looks to be where trouble can start.

Zinc,1300ppm via the Mobil chart you linked.

Penrite Premium 0W-50 (too much zinc?)

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