Is there really much difference between 5w30 & 10w30 synthetic oil if both oils are from the same company? Say both oil weights being Mobil 1 or Penzoil within the same oil line like PP and not one oil weight being PP & one Ultra but both weights from the same model line.
Synthetic 5/10-30?
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Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Is there really much difference between 5w30 & 10w30 synthetic oil if both oils are from the same company? Say both oil weights being Mobil 1 or Penzoil within the same oil line like PP and not one oil weight being PP & one Ultra but both weights from the same model line.
yes, just look at PP, 10w30 has a noack around 5%
5w30 is ~~10%
in most cars this wont be important, In air cooled or turbo it could be abit more important.
Is there really much difference between 5w30 & 10w30 synthetic oil if both oils are from the same company? Say both oil weights being Mobil 1 or Penzoil within the same oil line like PP and not one oil weight being PP & one Ultra but both weights from the same model line.
yes, just look at PP, 10w30 has a noack around 5%
5w30 is ~~10%
in most cars this wont be important, In air cooled or turbo it could be abit more important.
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my last line disappeared from the above post:
I mention this because the OP wanted to know if the oils are "different"
Its hard to find any differences because many of the oil specs aren't published.
I picked noack because it is different and an easily found number.
Not like you are going to go read a pds and find additive pack differences anywhere ... etc.
I did not pick noack to start a noack discussion.
I mention this because the OP wanted to know if the oils are "different"
Its hard to find any differences because many of the oil specs aren't published.
I picked noack because it is different and an easily found number.
Not like you are going to go read a pds and find additive pack differences anywhere ... etc.
I did not pick noack to start a noack discussion.
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The Noack difference between PP 5W30 and 10W30 is significant, but for other brands it may not difference as much.
I would stay with manufacture recommend grade, Honda recommends 10W30 for S2000 for warmer climate and 5W40 for colder one. Most S2000 owners stay with 10W30, even current 5W30 SN/GF5 is much more shear stable than 10 years ago.
I would stay with manufacture recommend grade, Honda recommends 10W30 for S2000 for warmer climate and 5W40 for colder one. Most S2000 owners stay with 10W30, even current 5W30 SN/GF5 is much more shear stable than 10 years ago.
Quite a bit of a difference in different weights of oil.
Kv40, Kv100, HTHS, CCS,MRV, Pour point, add pack and overall Vi to name a few.
If you want to see add packs, check the VOA section of this site.
A quick search on the internet can yield you numerous PDS on many oils, search away.
Kv40, Kv100, HTHS, CCS,MRV, Pour point, add pack and overall Vi to name a few.
If you want to see add packs, check the VOA section of this site.
A quick search on the internet can yield you numerous PDS on many oils, search away.
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There's little point in bothering with a 10w-30 synthetic in the first place.
Which grade would provide the least amount of bother?
10w30 grades "typically" start with a thicker base oil, thus requiring less in the way of viscosity improvers to achieve the 30 grade at temp. So, hypothetically, a 10w30 "should" be more resistant to shearing, and "possibly" have lower NOACK numbers...
Except with synthetics, some base oils can meet, or come very close to meeting, the 5w30 criteria with very little, or, as rumoured in a couple of boutique brands, NO viscosity improvers added at all...
And...10w30 is almost never spec'd for any new car, and some brands don't even blend a 10w30 in some lines, so don't be surprised to see it disappear soon...
Except with synthetics, some base oils can meet, or come very close to meeting, the 5w30 criteria with very little, or, as rumoured in a couple of boutique brands, NO viscosity improvers added at all...
And...10w30 is almost never spec'd for any new car, and some brands don't even blend a 10w30 in some lines, so don't be surprised to see it disappear soon...
The engine in my corvette, s10 and Prizm can't tell the difference in southern ca. I use both grades
Originally Posted By: Garak
There's little point in bothering with a 10w-30 synthetic in the first place.
Exactly.
I don't think any auto manufacturer spec's the 10W-30 grade anymore and no one have ever spec'd a 10W-30 synthetic as it is redundant.
10W-30 is a legacy grade but it is cheaper to make so as long as there is still some demand formulators will still offer it.
That said, it no longer sells well in my area and syn 10W-30's are always on clearance for a dino price, so for summer use, especially for long road trips when cold start performance is not important, it can be a good deal.
There's little point in bothering with a 10w-30 synthetic in the first place.
Exactly.
I don't think any auto manufacturer spec's the 10W-30 grade anymore and no one have ever spec'd a 10W-30 synthetic as it is redundant.
10W-30 is a legacy grade but it is cheaper to make so as long as there is still some demand formulators will still offer it.
That said, it no longer sells well in my area and syn 10W-30's are always on clearance for a dino price, so for summer use, especially for long road trips when cold start performance is not important, it can be a good deal.
Of those few who actually change their own oil, the vast majority use EXACTLY what is spec'd by the manufacturer.
How much 10w30 do oil blenders actually sell...? Or for that matter, any grade outside of the 5w 20/30 spectrum, maybe including the now more frequent 0w20...?
Obviously there must be some profitablity in these less common grades, but, who, outside of the legacy owners / bitog crowd actually buy these grades...?
My neighbour is a die hard 10w30 guy, maybe there are more out there then one might believe...!
How much 10w30 do oil blenders actually sell...? Or for that matter, any grade outside of the 5w 20/30 spectrum, maybe including the now more frequent 0w20...?
Obviously there must be some profitablity in these less common grades, but, who, outside of the legacy owners / bitog crowd actually buy these grades...?
My neighbour is a die hard 10w30 guy, maybe there are more out there then one might believe...!
Yeah, 10w30 is still a big seller. It may still be one of the most popular grades in many areas of the USA
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
I am not a chemist, but I noticed my car ran quieter under load in the mornings with 10-30 compared to 5-30 of the same type synthetic (Pennzoil Ultra)
10w30 is some degree thicker at all temps below 100c... and thicker is, in my experience, ALWAYS quieter...
I am not a chemist, but I noticed my car ran quieter under load in the mornings with 10-30 compared to 5-30 of the same type synthetic (Pennzoil Ultra)
10w30 is some degree thicker at all temps below 100c... and thicker is, in my experience, ALWAYS quieter...
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
I am not a chemist, but I noticed my car ran quieter under load in the mornings with 10-30 compared to 5-30 of the same type synthetic (Pennzoil Ultra)
10w30 is some degree thicker at all temps below 100c... and thicker is, in my experience, ALWAYS quieter...
True. This may even go well beyond 'relaxed' KV properties and may suggest that a rate of 'tearing' of the oil film between a straighter vs highly VMed oil.
Imagine a cam lobe whacking against it's follower/cam bucket - the straighter 10cSt oil molecules are evenly dispersed and more homogenously sized (never completely homogenous, but closer to each other).
Then imagine the 'built-up' 5cSt oil, which is VMed and shares a KV100 with the straighter oil, but let's "imagine" the molecular dispersion - much smaller molecules with these giant polymer chains randomly distributed across the friction surface.
When that cam lobe comes down on each scenario, I imagine that the pressure affects the polymer first and foremost, temporarily breaking down/deforming the huge poly molecule, leaving the 'cushioning" down to the 5cSt molecule mixture, which will surely provide an thinner immediate 'acoustic cushion' vs the straighter 10cSt oil.
inb4 "not scientific enough" "not abstract enough" "too imginatively oriented"
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
I am not a chemist, but I noticed my car ran quieter under load in the mornings with 10-30 compared to 5-30 of the same type synthetic (Pennzoil Ultra)
10w30 is some degree thicker at all temps below 100c... and thicker is, in my experience, ALWAYS quieter...
True. This may even go well beyond 'relaxed' KV properties and may suggest that a rate of 'tearing' of the oil film between a straighter vs highly VMed oil.
Imagine a cam lobe whacking against it's follower/cam bucket - the straighter 10cSt oil molecules are evenly dispersed and more homogenously sized (never completely homogenous, but closer to each other).
Then imagine the 'built-up' 5cSt oil, which is VMed and shares a KV100 with the straighter oil, but let's "imagine" the molecular dispersion - much smaller molecules with these giant polymer chains randomly distributed across the friction surface.
When that cam lobe comes down on each scenario, I imagine that the pressure affects the polymer first and foremost, temporarily breaking down/deforming the huge poly molecule, leaving the 'cushioning" down to the 5cSt molecule mixture, which will surely provide an thinner immediate 'acoustic cushion' vs the straighter 10cSt oil.
inb4 "not scientific enough" "not abstract enough" "too imginatively oriented"
some parameter like HTHSV except not exactly including the HT criteria
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
... and thicker is, in my experience, ALWAYS quieter...
In my experience I've never noticed a thicker oil to be quieter at operating temp's and suspect in a blind test those do it be would be proven to be imaginary.
On a cold start-up, lighter is ALWAYS better and quieter if it's cold enough.
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
... and thicker is, in my experience, ALWAYS quieter...
In my experience I've never noticed a thicker oil to be quieter at operating temp's and suspect in a blind test those do it be would be proven to be imaginary.
On a cold start-up, lighter is ALWAYS better and quieter if it's cold enough.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
and suspect in a blind test those do it be would be proven to be imaginary.
I would gladly partake in that trial.
and suspect in a blind test those do it be would be proven to be imaginary.
I would gladly partake in that trial.
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Originally Posted By: jrustles
Yeah, 10w30 is still a big seller. It may still be one of the most popular grades in many areas of the USA
It makes one wonder why that would be the case though. Have not the vast majority of new cars sold in the US since about 1998 forward been specified for one of three viscosities (5W-30, 5W-20, and 0W-20)?
Yeah, 10w30 is still a big seller. It may still be one of the most popular grades in many areas of the USA
It makes one wonder why that would be the case though. Have not the vast majority of new cars sold in the US since about 1998 forward been specified for one of three viscosities (5W-30, 5W-20, and 0W-20)?
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