Recent Topics
Nissan 510 manuals
by Shannow
38 minutes 24 seconds ago
Tar Removal
by bobbob
Today at 12:30 AM
Chrysler Town and Country
by JHZR2
Yesterday at 09:47 PM
Hours of operation - equivalence to miles / time
by aa1986
Yesterday at 09:26 PM
Am now using (very amber color) Edge 0w40
by aa1986
Yesterday at 09:24 PM
oci
by dieselbass
Yesterday at 08:55 PM
Helmet lights
by buck91
Yesterday at 08:39 PM
Leasing vs. Buying. What is your side?
by lawman1909
Yesterday at 08:33 PM
Fear Getting Towed? You’ll Hate Watching This
by Falcon_LS
Yesterday at 04:49 PM
Replacing parts before they fail
by Falcon_LS
Yesterday at 04:17 PM
First Impressions: Cooper Discoverer H/T
by Falcon_LS
Yesterday at 03:31 PM
Torn between tool brands
by renegade_987
Yesterday at 12:34 PM
Newest Members
Kernel, EdBurns, wolf9832, marine65, Focality
52012 Registered Users
Who's Online
30 registered (87sammy, aa1986, asand1, 67lemans, 901Memphis, 3800Series, 3 invisible), 502 Guests and 140 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
52012 Members
66 Forums
222692 Topics
3525588 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#3408513 - 06/27/14 01:49 PM VW 502 to 504 really worth it?
Jeffs2006EvoIX Offline


Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1344
Loc: Imperial Valley, California
Hello everyone, been a while since I have posted and for some that is probably good news haha.

Folks that have read some of my posts know how up in the air I was on using a 504 approved Oil in my VW GTI vs the recommended 502. Some of this post may sound repetitious but I am just giving a bigger picture for those that have not read any of my posts.

VW 502 is a High SAPS oil, I was using M1 0w40 and changing it every 5K miles. UOA's showed that this was totally fine.

Then the whole Lubrizol Report about "newer" Low SAPS oils and how they "may" contribute to as much as 47% decrease in carbon vavle deposits of which are VERY common on DI motors.

So this got me thinking. mmmmm (maybe thinking too much) That I should give the 504 oil (Low SAPS) a try. So I ordered up some PU Euro 5w30 L (say that 3x's fast geeze) and filled my GTI with it about a month ago, or say around 1200 miles ago.

To make a long story longer, my GTI was at the dealer getting serviced on an issue I was having and while there I was talking with the mechanic that was a very cool guy by the way. We spoke about oil and he was actually quite knowledgeable. Yeah I was surprised too. He was telling me sure I could use a 504 but to change it every 3-5K miles, but then stated that its not really the sulfur in our gas alone that makes the use of 504 "questionable" to use. I asked what else. He said that the 504 oil does't really like Ethanol. Ethanol in CA is at a minimum of 10% and some places are converting to E15 or 15% ethanol now. He was saying that the 504 does not hold up well with it. He also went on to say that most likely I will need to get my valves cleaned anyway, its just a matter of when. I asked how much that is and he said around $600 and they media blast the valves. he considered this "routine" maintenance on a TSI motor.

So yeah yeah, I know, its an opinion and probably a truth, and then I got to thinking some more. So far with the 504 oil in. I have not noticed ANY change in the behavior of the motor itself. So many people have claimed a smoother running engine, revs better, less turbo lag and this is coming from GTI forums. For me? I have noticed none of that. I have actually noticed a drop in MPG's by 2. Though I am thinking this "could be" do to use of the A/C more since its been in the 100F+ range for the past month.

So I was calculating in my head (scary thought) and came up with, if I use a 504 in hopes that the valves stay cleaner (the whole point to use it) it generally costs me about $20 more to use vs. the M1 0w40 I can get at Wallyworld. Calculate that my lets say 70K miles and I realized that how much more I am paying for the Low SAPS oil, oveer time, would just be the cost of the Valve cleaning job anyway. shrug

So unless the 504 oil in itself is "better" and that is subjective at best, I am now questioning my decision to go with it in the first place. hooked

So for me, I throw this out there again, and I know certain folks are gong to bash me WWF because I am so indecisive but Im just trying to learn and figure things out. Keep in mind that my car is in the most demanding of environments. Very extreme heat in summers. very dusty and on top of that my car is Turbo Charged and is DI.

Since Low SAPS oils do have less additives so to speak, do they protect critical engine parts as well? Or what ever is in there even in lower quantities is sufficient, you just have to change it more frequently? Basically is my engine going to wear quicker using this stuff? Is it worth the money to you guys?

I dont like changing brands of oil all the time, but a friend on these forums uses M1 ESP in his TSI equipped car and likes it. I am using the PU version 5w30 Euro L but am not really impressed. Maybe my expectations were to high? Or was thinking that water was going to turn into wine or something haha.

Let the bashing commence. getdown


Jeff
_________________________
2013 VW GTI

Top
#3408520 - 06/27/14 02:01 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26218
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am using the PU version 5w30 Euro L but am not really impressed.

What is it that you were expecting it to do, exactly? It's a friggen oil. smile

If you want to save money and still run mid/low SAPS oil, buy Valvoline Synpower 5w-40 from Walmart.

As far as the ethanol comment, I thought they were using similar amounts of ethanol in most places in Europe as well. Or did they abandon that idea?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

Top
#3408527 - 06/27/14 02:09 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Quattro Pete]
shDK Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 552
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am using the PU version 5w30 Euro L but am not really impressed.

What is it that you were expecting it to do, exactly? It's a friggen oil. smile

If you want to save money and still run mid/low SAPS oil, buy Valvoline Synpower 5w-40 from Walmart.

As far as the ethanol comment, I thought they were using similar amounts of ethanol in most places in Europe as well. Or did they abandon that idea?


I believe The minimum ethanol requirement here in Europe is 5% 10 is however just as normal.

Top
#3408531 - 06/27/14 02:13 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26218
Loc: Michigan
The difference in the US is that we have different ECU fuel mixture programming due to different emissions standards. This results in more gasoline getting dumped into the oil.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

Top
#3408546 - 06/27/14 02:36 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
toneydoc Offline


Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 1063
Loc: War Eagle
I think it is more for the turbo charger and trying to keep it from burning or cokeing up the oil. I think the important thing is using a good quality synthetic, changing it at 5k miles or so. My daughter had a 1.8L turbo in a beetle. Changed it with synthetic religiously. Tranny problems got it before engine or turbl
_________________________
1994 Jeep 136k Nextgen 5w30HM
2014 Camry 1k Toyo 0w20
2010 Sebring 33k NextGen5w30
2014 HD Ultra 3k HD20w50
2012 Toyota Rav4 14k Toyo 5w20

Top
#3408569 - 06/27/14 03:03 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Jeffs2006EvoIX Offline


Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1344
Loc: Imperial Valley, California
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am using the PU version 5w30 Euro L but am not really impressed.

What is it that you were expecting it to do, exactly? It's a friggen oil. smile

If you want to save money and still run mid/low SAPS oil, buy Valvoline Synpower 5w-40 from Walmart.

As far as the ethanol comment, I thought they were using similar amounts of ethanol in most places in Europe as well. Or did they abandon that idea?




I just heard so many people say that their car ran "smoother" better "MPG's" Better turbo "spool up". I mean, it seemed like man I have to try this stuff!!

I just didn't notice any difference vs the M1 0w40. None at all.

Jeff


Edited by Jeffs2006EvoIX (06/27/14 03:04 PM)
_________________________
2013 VW GTI

Top
#3408577 - 06/27/14 03:07 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
FowVay Offline


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2207
Loc: Southeastern USA
If I owned a gasser VW I'd use the 504.00 oil. To me, the idea of reducing intake deposits by 47% is enough incentive to give it a try.

You can order 504.00 oil on-line for as low as $6.00 a liter (when you buy 20 liters) so the price really isn't an issue.

I drive a TDI Jetta which requires 507.00 oil and for years I had oil mist accumulate around the lower intercooler duct. When I changed my brand from Mobil (Mobil-1 ESP 5W-30) to Pentosin SuperPerformance III 5W-30 the misting stopped completely.

I am a firm believer that not all oils are created equal. I am also a firm believer that VW's latest 504/507 rated oils are more than adequate for use in North American operated vehicles.

Top
#3408581 - 06/27/14 03:10 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26218
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I just heard so many people say that their car ran "smoother" better "MPG's" Better turbo "spool up". I mean, it seemed like man I have to try this stuff!!

I just didn't notice any difference vs the M1 0w40. None at all.

Both these oils have nearly identical HT/HS viscosity, and for that reason you won't notice any different spool up or MPG.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

Top
#3408588 - 06/27/14 03:13 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: FowVay]
Jeffs2006EvoIX Offline


Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1344
Loc: Imperial Valley, California
For me the cost is about $50 for 6 qts. vs. $25 for 5 qts of the M1 0w40.

Im hoping the PU 5w30 L wont cause any oil issues in the intercooler pipes. Im still trying to figure out what the NOACK of this dang stuff is. It says 11% on the website but that is impossible with the approvals that it carries.

Jeff
_________________________
2013 VW GTI

Top
#3408638 - 06/27/14 04:32 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6402
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX

I just heard so many people say that their car ran "smoother" better "MPG's" Better turbo "spool up". I mean, it seemed like man I have to try this stuff!!

I just didn't notice any difference vs the M1 0w40. None at all.

Jeff


That just means you didn't get fooled by placebo effect.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

Top
#3408718 - 06/27/14 06:47 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I just heard so many people say that their car ran "smoother" better "MPG's" Better turbo "spool up". I mean, it seemed like man I have to try this stuff!!

I just didn't notice any difference vs the M1 0w40. None at all.

Both these oils have nearly identical HT/HS viscosity, and for that reason you won't notice any different spool up or MPG.

Yeah you are on point.
M1 0W40 is 3.8 and PU L is 3.68.
M1 ESP is 3.58 same as GC.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

Top
#3408720 - 06/27/14 06:48 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: FowVay]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: FowVay
If I owned a gasser VW I'd use the 504.00 oil. To me, the idea of reducing intake deposits by 47% is enough incentive to give it a try.

You can order 504.00 oil on-line for as low as $6.00 a liter (when you buy 20 liters) so the price really isn't an issue.

I drive a TDI Jetta which requires 507.00 oil and for years I had oil mist accumulate around the lower intercooler duct. When I changed my brand from Mobil (Mobil-1 ESP 5W-30) to Pentosin SuperPerformance III 5W-30 the misting stopped completely.

I am a firm believer that not all oils are created equal. I am also a firm believer that VW's latest 504/507 rated oils are more than adequate for use in North American operated vehicles.

How you like Pentosin? I can get locally but decided to order M1 ESP.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

Top
#3408862 - 06/27/14 10:32 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
Jeffs2006EvoIX Offline


Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1344
Loc: Imperial Valley, California
Since the 504 oils have less additives this may not mean more wear correct?

Maybe 504 oils use some type of additives that don't show up on a UOA?

I will find out. If my wear metals increase then back to 502 I go.

Diesels are low reving motors I do an italian tune up on my car often ha ha hope this PU 5w30 L is half as good as people think (or hope) it to be.

Jeff
_________________________
2013 VW GTI

Top
#3408888 - 06/27/14 11:15 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I will find out. If my wear metals increase then back to 502 I go.

Hmmm, that doesn't seem to be a valid way to determine which lube is performing "better."
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3408894 - 06/27/14 11:40 PM Re: VW 502 to 504 really worth it? [Re: Jeffs2006EvoIX]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12570
Loc: Chicago, IL
Your car is not in "the most demanding of environments", truthfully. I think you underestimate the conditions that VW tests their vehicles in.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >