Very hard to shift- pilot bearing??

[1kickbuttranger]

Greetings,
I am hoping all that is wrong is that my pilot bearing/ clutch/ slave is all that is wrong, but recently on the Ranger, it can be a bear to get into gear from neutral. Symptoms showed a few months back, the atf in the trans was pushing a year (25K) so I changed the fluid, and shifting seemed fine.

Then the other day, it has gotten real bad. I changed the fluid again (came out very clean) but no change in shifting.

Clutch engagement seems normal, but when at the lights in neutral, with either the clutch in or out, it is very difficult to get into ANY gear. I can usually find one that I can get into, and then I can go into first.

When I come to a stop, with the clutch pressed in, I can get into any gear very easily, but if I wait for a few seconds, then shifting gets hard.

I am assuming the pilot is bad, or the clutch may be dragging and not letting it shift easily. Even shifting to other gears gets real notchy.

If it was a bad synchro, wouldn't only affect that gear?

I have everything on order, new Luk flywheel, new Luk clutch kit, new rear main seal, and will be getting a new OEM slave. I will be tackling it in a few days. Hope everything turns out fine.

I just went out and got the HF scissor trans jack (450lbs) with a 20% coupon. I friend brought one over when I did the trans on my Mustang ant it worked out pretty good.

 

[Rand]

slave cylinder is a known failpoint on those.

they usually go at 80-120k miles like clockwork.

 

[JamesBond]

Had the same problem on a 4cyl 93 Ranger. It was random but seemed to happen mostly at lights or after reversing. Never resolved the issue.

Try replacing the ATF in the gearbox with an MTL. I've used a mix of Mercon and Pennzoil Synchromesh, as well as all Synchromesh. Both helped shifting over the ATF.

 

[Rand]

Somehow my second line got deleted from my post..

your issue with it being hard after a few seconds is very common with a leaking slave cylinder they will bleed down and you have to "pump it" had one go bad in a 2005 ranger 4.0 4x4 and it would actually work decently intermittently.. then be a total pita at lights.

I'm not saying that's your whole problem but definitely the first thing I would look at

I've had good luck with redline MTL in those.

 

[AdRock]

Originally Posted By: 1kickbuttranger


When I come to a stop, with the clutch pressed in, I can get into any gear very easily, but if I wait for a few seconds, then shifting gets hard.



I can't remember if the entire clutch fluid line is solid or not. If there is any rubber hose on the clutch fluid line there's a good chance it's old and bulging, therefore not disengaging the clutch 100% and causing the hard shifting.

Also, the rubber bulging could be the cause for what I quoted. When you initially press the clutch it disengages the clutch completely but after a few seconds the rubber line will bulge and engage the clutch just enough to cause it to not want to slip into gear but not enough to lug the engine.

Try this, come to a stop and try to move into other gears immediately and see if it's still easy. Then wait few seconds and see if it gets hard again. If it does, let up on the clutch pedal, count to 10, then push the clutch back in and see if it repeats the easy then hard scenario.

 

[andyd]

You have to drop the transmission, so the drill over the Ranger boards is to replace from the rear main out. It is a PITN job Rangers don't like being taken apart.

 

[Drew99GT]

If you can, pull the rubber dust boot off both cylinders; if fluid drips out, you know the problem. The pistons in the cylinders are worn. Hydraulic pressure is bleeding out. I just went through that situation on my Corolla and replacing both master and slave cylinders solved the problem.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
If you can, pull the rubber dust boot off both cylinders; if fluid drips out, you know the problem. The pistons in the cylinders are worn. Hydraulic pressure is bleeding out. I just went through that situation on my Corolla and replacing both master and slave cylinders solved the problem.


The slave cylinder is internal and requires dropping the transmission to replace.

While the master cylinder is not immune to failure the slave cylinder on these is well known to fail, seem to go at 8-12 years and 80-120k miles.

They also seem to leak worse when cold for some reason.



IIRC no rubber line

Originally Posted By: AdRock


I can't remember if the entire clutch fluid line is solid or not.

 

[01rangerxl]

Sounds like the slave cyl. Not uncommon. IIRC, you have some miles on that truck, so it's not surprising.

Replace it with the clutch and it should be good for a while.

 

[1kickbuttranger]

The master had been replaced under warranty (a long time ago) as the pedal had no pressure until the last inch or so randomly for days (talk about a PITA to drive), but other times was fine. The slave was also done around '04 when it popped and just plain let go, after I slammed the clutch several times the day before trying to race someone... oops.. learned my lesson.

I'll get all those replaced and will keep my fingers crossed. The rear main has a minor leak and thanks to the Ford engineers that put a cat right under the rms, you can smell the oil buring after long hard drives. So its a good time to get everything replaced.

 

[1kickbuttranger]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Sounds like the slave cyl. Not uncommon. IIRC, you have some miles on that truck, so it's not surprising.

Replace it with the clutch and it should be good for a while.


I know the slaves have been problematic, that's why they've gone through a dozen or so part number changes over the years.. Hopefully I get one that doesn't fail any time soon.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: 1kickbuttranger
The master had been replaced under warranty (a long time ago) as the pedal had no pressure until the last inch or so randomly for days (talk about a PITA to drive), but other times was fine. The slave was also done around '04 when it popped and just plain let go, after I slammed the clutch several times the day before trying to race someone... oops.. learned my lesson.

I'll get all those replaced and will keep my fingers crossed. The rear main has a minor leak and thanks to the Ford engineers that put a cat right under the rms, you can smell the oil buring after long hard drives. So its a good time to get everything replaced.


Slave cyl will fix it.

Oddly enough, my '01 2.5 M5OD sustained a lot of abuse and never blew the slave. I sold it with 93K on it. That truck survived many dumpings of the clutch.

As for the RMS, that's just kind of a Vulcan thing. Might be due to the cat location, but mine has seeped since about 40K mi and hasn't gotten worse. I'm just going to leave it be until it becomes economical in some way to replace it. It can go an oil change without needing top off, so I'm inclined to leave it alone.

 

[Kuato]

Had the same symptoms on the Wrangler, and it WAS the pilot bearing.

Easy way to test it: shift the transmission around with the engine Off. If it's easy/normal to shift, then it's the pilot bearing.

 

[1kickbuttranger]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Had the same symptoms on the Wrangler, and it WAS the pilot bearing.

Easy way to test it: shift the transmission around with the engine Off. If it's easy/normal to shift, then it's the pilot bearing.


I like to hear that!! With the engine off, it slide into all gears like butter.

I'll update this in a few days.

 

[1kickbuttranger]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

Slave cyl will fix it.

Oddly enough, my '01 2.5 M5OD sustained a lot of abuse and never blew the slave. I sold it with 93K on it. That truck survived many dumpings of the clutch.

As for the RMS, that's just kind of a Vulcan thing. Might be due to the cat location, but mine has seeped since about 40K mi and hasn't gotten worse. I'm just going to leave it be until it becomes economical in some way to replace it. It can go an oil change without needing top off, so I'm inclined to leave it alone.


Never seen a drop on the ground as the cat burns it off. The crossover pipe/converter is blackish and has dry sludge from the oil. It is minor, but yeah, no point in fixing it if its not causing any major problems. Every other oil change or so, I would just wipe off any oil from the pan and trans, made it look fairly clean. Scrubbed the converter with a scouring pad and some cleaner every now and then.

 

[Chris142]

clutch master or slave is bleeding down

 

[asand1]

Slave, master, muffed clutch, or pilot bearing.

For whatever reason the input shaft doesn't want to stop turning.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: 1kickbuttranger
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Had the same symptoms on the Wrangler, and it WAS the pilot bearing.

Easy way to test it: shift the transmission around with the engine Off. If it's easy/normal to shift, then it's the pilot bearing.


I like to hear that!! With the engine off, it slide into all gears like butter.

I'll update this in a few days.



"Like butter" is a good description. Glad it is not something more expensive or involved.

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Had the same symptoms on the Wrangler, and it WAS the pilot bearing.

Easy way to test it: shift the transmission around with the engine Off. If it's easy/normal to shift, then it's the pilot bearing.


Pretty sure the only thing that would test is the shift linkage. Nothing is spinning, and nothing has a load on it. The clutch, pilot bearing, throw-out bearing could be totally trashed and shift perfect with the engine off.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Traction
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Had the same symptoms on the Wrangler, and it WAS the pilot bearing.

Easy way to test it: shift the transmission around with the engine Off. If it's easy/normal to shift, then it's the pilot bearing.


Pretty sure the only thing that would test is the shift linkage. Nothing is spinning, and nothing has a load on it. The clutch, pilot bearing, throw-out bearing could be totally trashed and shift perfect with the engine off.


Dude, think about it...we just experienced the same symptoms as OP and replaced the clutch and throwout bearing etc on the Wrangler, so I have immediate and personal experience (not to mention I was involved with the same thing several years ago)

"No load" is exactly right...when the clutch is pressed, the throwout bearing isolates the transmission from the spinning flywheel. When it fails, it allows the transmission to spin at or near the speed of the flywheel, which is why it is hard to shift -- the transmission's synchronizers have to do the work of slowing down the internals of the transmission before you can get it into gear, and this can result in rapid synchronizer wear. With a well functioning throwout bearing, the transmission spins very little or not at all, making all shifts more "like butter".

This is why when the engine is not running you can shift easily with a bad throwout bearing - the transmission is not spinning, and the synchronizers do not have to generate friction to slow anything down.

Granted, a bad clutch could cause the same issues, but it's unlikely as a worn clutch almost always results in slippage, which helps rather than hinders shifting.

Testing shift linkage? If you will recall, OP stated it shifted fine once moving.


1kickbuttranger, hopefully you'll be changing out the transmission fluid with the clutch change.