wemay
Site Donor 2023
If your warranty can be voided for not sticking to the manufacturer's 'recommended' specs / oci, why don't they just use the term, required... for said items? why the play on words?
Recommended vs Required, in Owner's Manuals
- Thread starter wemay
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I've always wondered the same. In practice they act like it's a requirement but it's written as a (key word) recommendation. I discussed viscosity once with my SM and he actualty told me that they just wanted to see if the oil was changed at certain intervals. He also told me that they've replaced engines and never looked at records. Then of course we've all read the horror stories online.
Also the manual will state one thing and the FSM will state another in regards to oil.
Also the manual will state one thing and the FSM will state another in regards to oil.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Very inconsistent to say the least.
If you are a car maker and chose your word carefully .how much money can you save in not accepting warranty claim and also asking money for repair!japanese dont play to much this game but a lot of other do.and thats why japanese car sell so well.its like the joke :how many does it take to cook an egg?5 one to hold the pan and 4 to shake the stove
Nothing can render the entire warranty void. If you do anything that causes damage to a part of your car, the car maker will not pay to repair that part.
You do not have to follow any of the recommendations. But, if a part fails, you might be on the spot to prove that it wasn't the result of anything you did or failed to do. Now it gets sticky, and you don't want the car maker stonewalling paying for the repair--you want your car back. All that said, if the transmission fluid is red, they won't know if you used an unapproved ATF (like Amsoil, Redline, many others). If the engine oil and filter come out reasonably clean, they likely won't question you. If the oil has to be chiseled out of the engine, and if the filter is a solid cylinder of coal...keep your checkbook handy.
You do not have to follow any of the recommendations. But, if a part fails, you might be on the spot to prove that it wasn't the result of anything you did or failed to do. Now it gets sticky, and you don't want the car maker stonewalling paying for the repair--you want your car back. All that said, if the transmission fluid is red, they won't know if you used an unapproved ATF (like Amsoil, Redline, many others). If the engine oil and filter come out reasonably clean, they likely won't question you. If the oil has to be chiseled out of the engine, and if the filter is a solid cylinder of coal...keep your checkbook handy.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
and thats why japanese car sell so well.its like the joke :how many does it take to cook an egg?5 one to hold the pan and 4 to shake the stove
W T F is this guy talking about?!?
and thats why japanese car sell so well.its like the joke :how many does it take to cook an egg?5 one to hold the pan and 4 to shake the stove
W T F is this guy talking about?!?
^^^Japanese makes are superior to everything else. Everybody knows this.
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Nothing can render the entire warranty void. If you do anything that causes damage to a part of your car, the car maker will not pay to repair that part.
You do not have to follow any of the recommendations. But, if a part fails, you might be on the spot to prove that it wasn't the result of anything you did or failed to do. Now it gets sticky, and you don't want the car maker stonewalling paying for the repair--you want your car back. All that said, if the transmission fluid is red, they won't know if you used an unapproved ATF (like Amsoil, Redline, many others). If the engine oil and filter come out reasonably clean, they likely won't question you. If the oil has to be chiseled out of the engine, and if the filter is a solid cylinder of coal...keep your checkbook handy.
ATF can be tested to see if the wrong stuff is used. Oil analysis will show if the additives match the OE fluid. At the same time, Flashpoint is unlikely to rise because there would be no fuel/oil dilution, so the flashpoint of OEM fluid could be tested against OEM fluid. Allison transmission added an extra step by having ATF that can be tested by light.
Nothing can render the entire warranty void. If you do anything that causes damage to a part of your car, the car maker will not pay to repair that part.
You do not have to follow any of the recommendations. But, if a part fails, you might be on the spot to prove that it wasn't the result of anything you did or failed to do. Now it gets sticky, and you don't want the car maker stonewalling paying for the repair--you want your car back. All that said, if the transmission fluid is red, they won't know if you used an unapproved ATF (like Amsoil, Redline, many others). If the engine oil and filter come out reasonably clean, they likely won't question you. If the oil has to be chiseled out of the engine, and if the filter is a solid cylinder of coal...keep your checkbook handy.
ATF can be tested to see if the wrong stuff is used. Oil analysis will show if the additives match the OE fluid. At the same time, Flashpoint is unlikely to rise because there would be no fuel/oil dilution, so the flashpoint of OEM fluid could be tested against OEM fluid. Allison transmission added an extra step by having ATF that can be tested by light.
Car engines run on every weight oil made all around the world. Unless your engine dies on a cold start with 60w in it on a -20F morning, you're pretty safe from any oil related claims.
How on earth could the manufacturers madate a single weight, type, or brand of oil any place on earth if an engine is known to be completely reliable on every standards-reaching oil of a weight from 0w-20 to 15w-50? Corporate suicide/stupidity? What would it cost in lawsuits and endless explanations to keep the Stupidariat mollified?
They recommend certain weights for certain temps, and in North America they recommend 20w for corporate fuel economy ratings. The Prius C can run on 20 to 50w, depending on the temps of the locale, per their own manuals. How could the make madatory a single weight of oil and get out of it alive?
And for that matter, when was the last time any warranty was denied for an engine failure for using the wrong oil? I don't recall ever hearing of one, and you'd think those stories would run rampant through the interweb. Sounds like one of those Amsoil stories nobody can actually locate.
How on earth could the manufacturers madate a single weight, type, or brand of oil any place on earth if an engine is known to be completely reliable on every standards-reaching oil of a weight from 0w-20 to 15w-50? Corporate suicide/stupidity? What would it cost in lawsuits and endless explanations to keep the Stupidariat mollified?
They recommend certain weights for certain temps, and in North America they recommend 20w for corporate fuel economy ratings. The Prius C can run on 20 to 50w, depending on the temps of the locale, per their own manuals. How could the make madatory a single weight of oil and get out of it alive?
And for that matter, when was the last time any warranty was denied for an engine failure for using the wrong oil? I don't recall ever hearing of one, and you'd think those stories would run rampant through the interweb. Sounds like one of those Amsoil stories nobody can actually locate.
Originally Posted By: tony1679
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
and thats why japanese car sell so well.its like the joke :how many does it take to cook an egg?5 one to hold the pan and 4 to shake the stove
W T F is this guy talking about?!?
Being from Quebec, English might not be his primary language.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
and thats why japanese car sell so well.its like the joke :how many does it take to cook an egg?5 one to hold the pan and 4 to shake the stove
W T F is this guy talking about?!?
Being from Quebec, English might not be his primary language.
French must not be either then, what with the random punctuation and complete lack of capital letters.
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: tony1679
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
and thats why japanese car sell so well.its like the joke :how many does it take to cook an egg?5 one to hold the pan and 4 to shake the stove
W T F is this guy talking about?!?
Being from Quebec, English might not be his primary language.
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: tony1679
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
and thats why japanese car sell so well.its like the joke :how many does it take to cook an egg?5 one to hold the pan and 4 to shake the stove
W T F is this guy talking about?!?
Being from Quebec, English might not be his primary language.
I've been in the car business my whole life and managed a few dealerships. I've never heard of any engine failure warranty claim denied for using the wrong oil....ever. What raises alarm bells are two things - the engine has no oil in it or is full of sludge - both indicate an obvious lack of maintenance and constitute abuse. And warranty even covered a couple of those cases. The overly A-nal BITOG poster will never have a problem. Use what you want - 20W-50 dino in a 0W-20 engine - change it regularly and it will easily outlast the warranty...and then some. When supposition regarding what if I use this or this becomes tiring, just follow the owners manual. Not rocket science.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
^^^Japanese makes are superior to everything else. Everybody knows this.
haha, it's an old refrain, and we've heard it many times before...
^^^Japanese makes are superior to everything else. Everybody knows this.
haha, it's an old refrain, and we've heard it many times before...
Originally Posted By: bigt61
I've been in the car business my whole life and managed a few dealerships. I've never heard of any engine failure warranty claim denied for using the wrong oil....ever. What raises alarm bells are two things - the engine has no oil in it or is full of sludge - both indicate an obvious lack of maintenance and constitute abuse. And warranty even covered a couple of those cases. The overly A-nal BITOG poster will never have a problem. Use what you want - 20W-50 dino in a 0W-20 engine - change it regularly and it will easily outlast the warranty...and then some. When supposition regarding what if I use this or this becomes tiring, just follow the owners manual. Not rocket science.
On that note, my friend had a problem with her 2010 Santa Fe, basically her crankshaft fractured with 50k on the odometer. My local Hyundai dealer didn't ask for any kind of records, not like she keeps anything on file anyway.
But the car is decently maintained, oil changes are done at quick lube shops using what ever bulk oil they have. As you mentioned bigt61 if there are no signs of abuse then there won't be a problem with a warranty claim.
I've been in the car business my whole life and managed a few dealerships. I've never heard of any engine failure warranty claim denied for using the wrong oil....ever. What raises alarm bells are two things - the engine has no oil in it or is full of sludge - both indicate an obvious lack of maintenance and constitute abuse. And warranty even covered a couple of those cases. The overly A-nal BITOG poster will never have a problem. Use what you want - 20W-50 dino in a 0W-20 engine - change it regularly and it will easily outlast the warranty...and then some. When supposition regarding what if I use this or this becomes tiring, just follow the owners manual. Not rocket science.
On that note, my friend had a problem with her 2010 Santa Fe, basically her crankshaft fractured with 50k on the odometer. My local Hyundai dealer didn't ask for any kind of records, not like she keeps anything on file anyway.
But the car is decently maintained, oil changes are done at quick lube shops using what ever bulk oil they have. As you mentioned bigt61 if there are no signs of abuse then there won't be a problem with a warranty claim.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Swift101
Originally Posted By: bigt61
I've been in the car business my whole life and managed a few dealerships. I've never heard of any engine failure warranty claim denied for using the wrong oil....ever. What raises alarm bells are two things - the engine has no oil in it or is full of sludge - both indicate an obvious lack of maintenance and constitute abuse. And warranty even covered a couple of those cases. The overly A-nal BITOG poster will never have a problem. Use what you want - 20W-50 dino in a 0W-20 engine - change it regularly and it will easily outlast the warranty...and then some. When supposition regarding what if I use this or this becomes tiring, just follow the owners manual. Not rocket science.
On that note, my friend had a problem with her 2010 Santa Fe, basically her crankshaft fractured with 50k on the odometer. My local Hyundai dealer didn't ask for any kind of records, not like she keeps anything on file anyway.
But the car is decently maintained, oil changes are done at quick lube shops using what ever bulk oil they have. As you mentioned bigt61 if there are no signs of abuse then there won't be a problem with a warranty claim.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
I've been in the car business my whole life and managed a few dealerships. I've never heard of any engine failure warranty claim denied for using the wrong oil....ever. What raises alarm bells are two things - the engine has no oil in it or is full of sludge - both indicate an obvious lack of maintenance and constitute abuse. And warranty even covered a couple of those cases. The overly A-nal BITOG poster will never have a problem. Use what you want - 20W-50 dino in a 0W-20 engine - change it regularly and it will easily outlast the warranty...and then some. When supposition regarding what if I use this or this becomes tiring, just follow the owners manual. Not rocket science.
On that note, my friend had a problem with her 2010 Santa Fe, basically her crankshaft fractured with 50k on the odometer. My local Hyundai dealer didn't ask for any kind of records, not like she keeps anything on file anyway.
But the car is decently maintained, oil changes are done at quick lube shops using what ever bulk oil they have. As you mentioned bigt61 if there are no signs of abuse then there won't be a problem with a warranty claim.
I'll admit I did go to one Nissan dealer in another town just to pick some of those crush washers and the parts guy asked me what kind of filter I was using. At the time I was using a M1 filter and he proceeded to tell me "You know you should be using an OEM filter for the warranty blah blah blah." He also tried to boast that he's been in the biz for 19 years and whatever. Some dealers will definitely try to impose warranty fears.
Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
And for that matter, when was the last time any warranty was denied for an engine failure for using the wrong oil?
FWIW, Valvoline's engine guarantee (warranty) will. From their website:
ADDITIONAL TERMS, CONDITIONS, LIMITATIONS, AND EXCLUSIONS
4. Each qualifying oil change must include an oil filter replacement and enough required Valvoline motor oil to fill the Qualifying Vehicle’s crankcase. The Qualifying Vehicle engine must be serviced exclusively with the vehicle manufacturer’s required viscosity and grade.
And for that matter, when was the last time any warranty was denied for an engine failure for using the wrong oil?
FWIW, Valvoline's engine guarantee (warranty) will. From their website:
ADDITIONAL TERMS, CONDITIONS, LIMITATIONS, AND EXCLUSIONS
4. Each qualifying oil change must include an oil filter replacement and enough required Valvoline motor oil to fill the Qualifying Vehicle’s crankcase. The Qualifying Vehicle engine must be serviced exclusively with the vehicle manufacturer’s required viscosity and grade.
What's better 6 or half a dozen ?
Rather than debate recommended v required I suggest BITOG get its own Section in all the OEM manuals as an alternative "independent advisor/umpire" without comprising OEM warranty.
The Section can also inform vehicle owners "If the OEM is confused on assessment and evaluation of warranty claims or providing advice on any matter" BIOTG can offer a second opinion that is binding and it will be upheld by any law abiding court should the vehicle owner feel a need to challenge the OEM.
So what is better OEM or BITOG ?
Hopefully we all sleep better at night when this is resolved.
Hmmmmmmmmm now which tree/s in the Garden did He say I can eat from ?
Rather than debate recommended v required I suggest BITOG get its own Section in all the OEM manuals as an alternative "independent advisor/umpire" without comprising OEM warranty.
The Section can also inform vehicle owners "If the OEM is confused on assessment and evaluation of warranty claims or providing advice on any matter" BIOTG can offer a second opinion that is binding and it will be upheld by any law abiding court should the vehicle owner feel a need to challenge the OEM.
So what is better OEM or BITOG ?
Hopefully we all sleep better at night when this is resolved.
Hmmmmmmmmm now which tree/s in the Garden did He say I can eat from ?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: tony1679
The Qualifying Vehicle engine must be serviced exclusively with the vehicle manufacturer’s required viscosity and grade.
That is the way with most oil companies' warranties. Most also require the use of a specified filter, not an oversize. But, to claim in an oil company's warranty, one would have to have a lube related failure, anyhow.
The Qualifying Vehicle engine must be serviced exclusively with the vehicle manufacturer’s required viscosity and grade.
That is the way with most oil companies' warranties. Most also require the use of a specified filter, not an oversize. But, to claim in an oil company's warranty, one would have to have a lube related failure, anyhow.
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