Why do snake oils seem to work?

[Stelth]

Years ago, when Tribotech http://www.torquemaster.it/tribotechuk.html hit the scene, some local mechanics, one of whom I respect, did some Tribotech commercials. They said that they put the Tribotech in their engines, drove for a certain period of time (I don't remember how long), then drained the oil, and were able to drive their cars for 20 minutes, and then re-fill with new oil, all without damage.

Slick 50 used to make these sorts of claims, but they've taken their advertising in a different direction now, claiming to add horsepower or fix up old engines from the inside.

On Youtube, you can see this old video featuring Bob Eubanks of an engine running without oil, supposedly because Prolong was used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ9-yx3NRV4 OK, anybody knows you can't drain the oil out of an engine and pour sand in it and whatnot and expect good results. So what is going on in the video?

Here is a video of an engine treated with BG MOA being run without oil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0ENyqqvZpk

There are many others, such as "Petron Plus", Bardahl, "Bell Performance Xtra Lube," "Aero Wonder Lube," and so on.

I have a couple of theories. One, an engine on an engine stand will run for a while with no load after draining the oil. Also, perhaps some of these additives deposit some sort of film that will keep the engine from seizing as quickly as it would otherwise. That's not to say that damage isn't being done, I'm sure the engines are thrown away after the demonstrations.

But that leaves the ones where someone drives a car with no oil for a period of time, then refills it with the correct quantity of oil, and things seem OK. I realize that none of these additives can provide hydrodynamic lubrication when there's no oil pressure (duh), so I don't know what I'm missing.

 

[SuzukiGoat]

Youre missing the fact that they arent required to be honest.

As for running an engine without oil...the old honda atc motors were notorious for being run with zero oil, being refilled, and showing no ill effects.

I ran a small briggs and stratton pushmower without oil to see how long it would take to blow up. It didnt, I was young, got bored and walked off. Ran out of gas.

 

[Artem]

I purchase most of my cars new or at the very least, pre-owned with low mileage around 30k at most, so the engines are clean. With regular maintenance using quality fluids, I've never had the need to use any oil additives. My recent testing of Auto-RX and Kreen was just for fun and data for the site.

When I visit the auto parts stores, it's shocking by the amount of junk they sell for you to add to your engine oil.

I understand when someone buys a car with 200k that hasn't been maintained well that they are inclined to use some engine cleaner but in reality, they don't really NEED it and don't need to waste money on it to begin with as just a short oil change or two will flush out what little junk is built up in the block from previous neglect and the rest obviously doesn't cause any harm as the car was obviously running fine when you bought it.

Snake oil is honestly for suckers as it's designed to make the manufacturer money and nothing more. I speak from personal experience after trying out two popular and EXPENSIVE engine cleaners which claim to clean metal but did no such thing in my old beater. There was barely any cleaning done, even after multiple attempts.

 

[Stelth]

SuzukiGoat, Artem, thanks for your comments. Yes, I understand that dishonesty is a big part of many of these products. I don't think I've ever used the ones I mention, except that I may have tried Slick 50 once as a callow youth. As far as I can tell, it didn't do any damage.

If the new Slick 50 would really add 10 horsepower to an engine or make it get measurably better gas mileage, we'd all run out and buy it.

I did some research on Prolong, and I think that it has a "stabilized" chlorine compound in it. Stabilized or not, I don't trust chlorine in engine oil. Still, it's an EP lube, and explains why Prolong does so well on the one-armed bandit. I think if you circulated it through an engine and then dumped the oil, it might run a little longer before seizing.

When Tribotech was still a "big deal", they said they used "patented technology." I asked them for the patent number, and they refused to tell me what it was.

 

[chrisri]

A friend of mine did put that slick 50 in his old mx3 v6 that used oil.He sad that oil comsumption went down.

 

[Boomer]

Chlorinated solvents can add temporary lubricity in some of the galling tests. BUT....in the engine they decompose and produce HC (hydrochloric acid). Let's do the math (approximate).

One mole of Propyl chloride = app. 79 grams or somewhere around 67 milliters as the density is above 1.

One mole of HCl can theoretically be liberated from this volume of chlorinated solvent. At room temperature, that is over 22 liters of gaseous HCl! Even if only 10% of the chlorine is liberated as HCl, that is still over 2 liters of gas!

I would not want this in any engine I owned.

 

[Kuato]

Back in the 80s I used Slick50 in an old engine in a used car I had purchased. It seemed to get better mpg following the treatment; but it may have been my cleanup 2500 mile OCIs.

I've also used AutoRX and it works as advertised on a dirty engine.

AutoRX didn't do anything however, when used on vehicles I have purchased new.

I'd say that most snake oils are [censored]; however from personal experience I can say AutoRX does perform the gentle cleaning it says it will. But a BITOG-maintained engine won't need anything like this.

Can't speak for other products as I haven't used them.

 

[dennishiip]

I don't put LubroMoly. Lubegard,and BK in the "snakeoil" category

 

[AKhan87]

Lubegard snake oil? Worked every single time I tried like a charm, took away my harsh shifts, all of them...1oz per quart is the recommended ratio.

I try good ATFs before using lubegard to make it a last resort thing.

 

[OneEyeJack]

LubeGuard is an American company, family owned and operated and they make products that have a good track record. You can use their products with confidence. You can call for help and you're talking to people inside company operations and not a retail sales outfit.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: dennishiip
I don't put LubroMoly. Lubegard,and BK in the "snakeoil" category

Agreed 100%

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Why do snake oils seem to work?


I think the answer is there there by the choice of wording.

 

[440Magnum]

An engine with mechanical lifters can run a pretty long time... at zero load. Note that they never show those engines on a dyno actually pushing any horsepower, they're always just idling, or *maybe* revving up moderately under no load.

Helps to start with a pretty stout engine too... that plus mechanical lifters are one reason old Slant-sixes and Mopar 273 V8s were so popular with those kinds of "demonstrations." Had to laugh at the one where they're pouring sand over the running 273. None of that sand is getting anywhere near the main and rod bearings... it would actually be a more convincing demo if it HAD oil to pick up the sand and pump it throughout the engine instead of it just bouncing harmlessly off the rocker arms.

As for whether there are any "trustworthy" additives out there... I guess there are some that do no (or little) harm. But for full disclosure: I don't believe any of them do any actual *good* that the proper lubricants with the proper built-in additives won't do. That's one reason I just stay off the additives forum here most of the time except when an interesting subject like this makes it onto the sidebar. My opinions are contrary to the very existence of such a forum.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Why do snake oils seem to work?


I think the answer is there there by the choice of wording.


Yes, Mr. Kule, that was my intent. I suppose I could have said, "Why do snake oils appear (at first glance) to work?"

 

[mongo161]

IMO....

I've had very good results with 2 Kreen treatments in the oil and gas. The oil came out filthy after both treatments and the engine ran, (and still runs), very smooth.

I've owned this vehicle since new and was prompt with my OCI's, (all quality Conventional oil for 150K). However, IMO... Kreen found some buildup somewhere in the engine and liquefied it during a 1.3K long distance, high speed run and a 1.3K short "stop and go" mixed with some highway runs.

I still use TCW-3 at 1 oz per 5 gallons of gas mixed with 3 ounces of Chevron techron fuel system cleaner at each fill up as a fuel system lube cleaner an and upper cylinder lube.

IMO....I DON'T add Kreen and TCW-3 or LubeGuard into the "Snake Oil" category.

 

[morris]

dont forget when engines was first made for cars late 1800s. some engines didnt even have a oil pan. it had a bank of oil squiters on the dash. that you had to pump from time to time, by hand. and just dumped oil on the ground. AKA old speedway motorcycles.

 

[Nobody]

I remember seeing something about a group of engineers, or some such, taking two small Briggs engines, one treated with something like Slick 50, the other with plain oil. They drained the oil from the engines and ran them, and the one that had been filled with just oil ran quite a bit longer than the Slick 50 one. They did this to prove the snakeoil salesmen running an engine without oil were just BSing people.

 

[CharBaby]

I had an old Toro push mower w/ 3 hp B&S engine that was over 40 years old and I had just gotten a new mower. The 40 year old mower was nickle & dime-ing me for some time so it was a good candidate for this test.

* I drained all of the motor oil from the mower and started the engine and ran it without any oil to see how long it would run til it died. I even ran the engine w/o the oil cap so the residual oil would mist out of the engine.

The oil that was in the engine was coal black and hadn't been changed in some time. There was still some gas in the tank so, I know it didn't run out of gas and I couldn't pull the rope and turn over the engine. It was deffinately seized!

I lost count on the minutes before the engine just quit but, it was over 20 minutes and less than 30 minutes. The engine really didn't make too much noise before it quit. I thought is would have mad more clacking! Amazing!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

#1 The consumer doesn't perform an accurate before/after comparison.

#2 Anecdotal evidence is confused as being fact.

3# The consumer does something else that changed the result and he/she wasn't aware of it.

#4 The consumer confuses "it doesn't seem to harm my engine " with "It's working. "

 

[morris]

they work cause YOU want them to.