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#3397026 - 06/13/14 10:00 PM 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 296
Loc: Illinois, USA
So, my bike has very low mileage. Less than 2800 miles, actually. Last year we bought it from a couple who just didn't have time to ride it. I very well suspect that it still had it's FF oil. Today I changed the oil and put in some Rotella T6 5w-40 (and with a K&N oil filter). I've seen mixed emotions here on using the T6 5w-40 in V-Stars; some have said it works great - others say it shears down to a 30 grade in a short time. IMHO, I'm not too worried about that, as I intend on changing the oil at the start of every riding season (ergo, the beginning of each summer), and, I don't put many miles on it (due to not having as much free time to ride as I would like to have)... however, now that I have it in my bike, I was just wondering what some of your opinions were on running it. I chose it because of A) the fact that it has the JASO MA certification, B) I run Rotella T6 in my tractor and have liked how it runs on it, and C) I was curious to see how it'd perform in my V-Star. Any thoughts?

P.S. After I changed it I rode it for an hour or so, and I thought the clutch feel was great.
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

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#3397067 - 06/13/14 11:02 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3491
Loc: Ohio
It should be fine. if it shears too quick try the Rotella 15w40
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The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer...

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#3397150 - 06/14/14 01:21 AM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Robenstein Online   content


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 3310
Loc: Central IA
Summers get pretty hot and that bike does not have an oil cooler. My friend ran 15w40 Rotella in his during cool weather but when it was hot he ran Valvoline 20w50 motorcycle oil.
_________________________
2011 Triumph Speedmaster
1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
1970 Chevy Nova
2006 Scion TC

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#3397490 - 06/14/14 03:47 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Robenstein]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 296
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Doog
It should be fine. if it shears too quick try the Rotella 15w40

This might sound like a dumb question, but how exactly will I know if (and/or how much) it shears? Will the bike start running less smoothly, or maybe run hotter than normal?
And I guess I could try out the Rotella T 15w-40 next summer (unless I feel the T6 worked without too much shearing).

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Summers get pretty hot and that bike does not have an oil cooler. My friend ran 15w40 Rotella in his during cool weather but when it was hot he ran Valvoline 20w50 motorcycle oil.

Well, the Yamaha service manual recommends 10w-30 for temps from 10*F to 100*F; and then 20w-40 for temps from 40*F to 120*F... So, while 20w-50 wouldn't necessarily be overkill, it still just doesn't seem necessary. If the T6 5w-40 shears too much, I'll just try something in a 10w-40 flavor (such as Mag 1 4T), or a 15w-40 flavor (such as Rotella T).
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

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#3397599 - 06/14/14 06:11 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
EdwardC Offline


Registered: 11/14/13
Posts: 356
Loc: Chicago, IL
For me, I change the oil when I start to notice that the shifting is getting tougher, notchier and harder to click in. I'm not sure if that's due to the decrease in viscosity due to shearing, or depletion of some other property of the oil though.

Obviously, a UOA would help answer the viscosity question.

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#3397649 - 06/14/14 07:30 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Robenstein Online   content


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 3310
Loc: Central IA
Well most 10w40 oils shear down to a 30 weight. That is why yamaha specs 20w40 because it was a more shear resistant oil than the 10w40(the 5w40 rotella is usually worse yet). But 20w40 is almost impossible to find anymore (victory brand oil is in 20w40) The thinking behind using a 20w50 is that it will shear down to basically a 40 weight at operational temperature.
_________________________
2011 Triumph Speedmaster
1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
1970 Chevy Nova
2006 Scion TC

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#3397768 - 06/14/14 10:46 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Robenstein]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 296
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Well most 10w40 oils shear down to a 30 weight. That is why yamaha specs 20w40 because it was a more shear resistant oil than the 10w40(the 5w40 rotella is usually worse yet). But 20w40 is almost impossible to find anymore (victory brand oil is in 20w40) The thinking behind using a 20w50 is that it will shear down to basically a 40 weight at operational temperature.

Uh, no. It will shear down to a 40 weight after being run through its full oci duration. But, just after putting it in, it will be a 20w-50 for a while, thus, a the grade of a 50 at operational temp for a while. The bike doesn't call for a 20w-50. Albeit, I guess I myself am a contradiction, since I run 5w-30 in my truck (which specs 5w-20), but, that's a different story since the triton originally spec'd for 5w-30 (only was changed to 5w-20 because of CAFE). However, for my motorcycle, I intend on sticking with the operational grade specified. Yamaha states anything between 10w-30 and 20w-40... Though the T6 I used is a 5w-40, it's still a 40 grade, even though it might shear more quickly than the 15w-40 would. Though, I don't ride as much as the average rider, as I am currently a college student on summer break, working from 7 to 3:30 in the week. I ride on the weekends, and I don't think I'll really put enough miles on it to have to worry about too much shearing. Besides, with the 5w (5w-40), rather than the 15w (15w-40) Rotella, the bike warms up quicker (Yamaha V-Stars are rather cold blooded when you first start'em).
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

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#3397819 - 06/15/14 12:06 AM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7599
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I'm done spending any extra money on synthetics for my bikes. Cost more and I change them out around 3000 miles anyways so all it does is add cost for no reward.
As far as shearing goes you'll know it when shifting gets notchy. I had an 06 1100 v-star. Great bike. When the oil sheared I had to stomp on the gear shift to switch gears.
Never again will I spend money on synthetics for bikes.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3397885 - 06/15/14 02:31 AM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Robenstein Online   content


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 3310
Loc: Central IA
I meant in my post that over time it will indeed shear down to a 40 weight, meaning that if you do practice a longer drain interval you will not have the issue with shearing down to too low of a grade in hot summer temps. That is the reasoning, and honestly in some oils the shearing happens within a thousand miles or so. I know my 20w50 Castrol V Twin did not last long before it sheared down in my unit construction air cooled bike.
_________________________
2011 Triumph Speedmaster
1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
1970 Chevy Nova
2006 Scion TC

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#3398189 - 06/15/14 01:34 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Robenstein]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 296
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I'm done spending any extra money on synthetics for my bikes. Cost more and I change them out around 3000 miles anyways so all it does is add cost for no reward.
As far as shearing goes you'll know it when shifting gets notchy. I had an 06 1100 v-star. Great bike. When the oil sheared I had to stomp on the gear shift to switch gears.
Never again will I spend money on synthetics for bikes.

Totally understand where your coming from man, no harm there. To be quite honest, it really was on a whim that I bought the T6 for it, as I just wanted to see how it'd do in my V-Star since it's what my father and I use in our tractor. The (kind-of recent) JASO MA cert was the other reason I said why not. It wasn't all that expensive really, and the bike only takes 3 quarts, so I just bought the gallon jug at Walmart. I don't remember how much it was, but I had money saved anyway for that purpose (of changing the oil in my bike). The next time I change the oil in it, I may use Rotella T 15w-40, but that's not til next summer so by then I might want to try something else. I don't need to change it but once a year since I don't put that many miles on her. But your valid in you're reasoning to just use conventional in your bike.

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I meant in my post that over time it will indeed shear down to a 40 weight, meaning that if you do practice a longer drain interval you will not have the issue with shearing down to too low of a grade in hot summer temps. That is the reasoning, and honestly in some oils the shearing happens within a thousand miles or so. I know my 20w50 Castrol V Twin did not last long before it sheared down in my unit construction air cooled bike.

Sorry if I came off short there. It's just that, with a cold blooded bike, 20w-50 seems too thick for a bike that doesn't call for it. But there are many who do use it in their V-Stars, so I'm sure there's no problem in using it. Somehow the Valvoline 20w-50 didn't seem too appealing to me though, maybe it's just because of how cheap it is at Walmart. Not that I think that its expense has anything to do with its quality, but I'd rather use Rotella T 15w-40 before I'd use Valvoline 20w-50.

On another note, as I mentioned slightly once before, I was also eyeing the Mag 1 4T 10w-40 syn blend. I actually just put some of that in my quad (Yamaha Raptor 350) just to see how it works in that. If anything, my quad is harder on oil than my bike (due to how I ride them, as well as because my quad is worse on fuel dilution than my bike), and it'll be the test to see how it holds up. It was only 26 bucks for 6 quarts on Amazon, so I'd say it's not a bad price.
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

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#3398211 - 06/15/14 02:29 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Robenstein Online   content


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 3310
Loc: Central IA
a 20w50 oil and a 20w40(called for in your manual) oil is going to be the same viscosity when cold so the bike does not know the difference until its warm.

And inexpensive does not mean cheap. I mean its almost the same price as Rotella and that is a very stout 40 weight oil. My bike is pretty cold blooded but it sure does like a 50 weight in the summer over a 40 weight although both are kosher in my manual. Much better shifting and much less engine noise with the thicker oil, especially in the valvetrain.
_________________________
2011 Triumph Speedmaster
1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
1970 Chevy Nova
2006 Scion TC

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#3398480 - 06/15/14 09:10 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Sonic Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 277
Loc: Midwest
I have an '09 v star 650 classic. The manual says to use 20w50 or in cooler weather you can use 10w40. No mention of any 30 grade oil. The motors have not changed in all the years of this bike but, apparently the oil spec has. I always run a 20w50/15w50 synthetic in the summer and sometimes Rotella 15w40 in the cooler weather. Or, I mix two qts of 10w40 with a qt of 20w50. I did run some 5w40 in it once but didn't keep it in too long after reading about how it shears quickly. Better safe than sorry. Walmart sells Valvoline MC oil for $4 a qt (dino 20w50 or 10w40). And of course Rotella 15w40 is cheap too (if you want a 40 grade that will last).

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#3398507 - 06/15/14 09:29 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Sonic]
Triton_330 Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 296
Loc: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
a 20w50 oil and a 20w40(called for in your manual) oil is going to be the same viscosity when cold so the bike does not know the difference until its warm.

And inexpensive does not mean cheap. I mean its almost the same price as Rotella and that is a very stout 40 weight oil. My bike is pretty cold blooded but it sure does like a 50 weight in the summer over a 40 weight although both are kosher in my manual. Much better shifting and much less engine noise with the thicker oil, especially in the valvetrain.

ehem -->
Originally Posted By: Triton_330

...Somehow the Valvoline 20w-50 didn't seem too appealing to me though, maybe it's just because of how cheap it is at Walmart. Not that I think that its expense has anything to do with its quality, but I'd rather use Rotella T 15w-40 before I'd use Valvoline 20w-50.

I'm sure that the Valvoline oil is a good oil, but I just like Rotella. Yes, it's just a preference thing. Nonetheless, I might give the Valvoline a try sometime in the future.

Originally Posted By: Sonic
I have an '09 v star 650 classic. The manual says to use 20w50 or in cooler weather you can use 10w40. No mention of any 30 grade oil. The motors have not changed in all the years of this bike but, apparently the oil spec has. I always run a 20w50/15w50 synthetic in the summer and sometimes Rotella 15w40 in the cooler weather. Or, I mix two qts of 10w40 with a qt of 20w50. I did run some 5w40 in it once but didn't keep it in too long after reading about how it shears quickly. Better safe than sorry. Walmart sells Valvoline MC oil for $4 a qt (dino 20w50 or 10w40). And of course Rotella 15w40 is cheap too (if you want a 40 grade that will last).

Thank you, that's actually helpful, I didn't know that Yamaha changed the manual's recommended oil grades without really changing the engine itself. In that case, I shant be worried about using or not using a Xw-50 anymore. I may do a mix next time of two different grades like you said. Though, I might just throw in Rotella T 15w-40. If I do the mix, I will use half Valvoline 20w-50 with something in an Xw-40 flavor, possibly Rotella, Mag 1, or even Valvoline's 10W-40. But that's not til next summer, which is relatively far in the future, respective to being a college student, lol. Right now it's my summer job that is making my free time to ride pretty much only on weekends, unless I decide to ride after work (doubtful).
_________________________
'01 F-150 5.4L ~ 120k mi.
- Mag 1 syn 5w-30 w/MC filter
'89 Camaro RS 305 ~ 47k mi.
- PYB 5w-30 w/AC Delco filter

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#3398538 - 06/15/14 10:12 PM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Robenstein Online   content


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 3310
Loc: Central IA
I only mentioned that a low price should not be a reason to not buy an oil. You yourself said "Somehow the Valvoline 20w-50 didn't seem too appealing to me though, maybe it's just because of how cheap it is at Walmart". SO price matters but it doesn't matter. But I guess you could just buy it for about 2 bucks a quart more at an auto parts store if it made you feel better. lol


Edited by Robenstein (06/15/14 10:13 PM)
_________________________
2011 Triumph Speedmaster
1986 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
1970 Chevy Nova
2006 Scion TC

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#3398770 - 06/16/14 09:33 AM Re: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 [Re: Triton_330]
Sonic Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 277
Loc: Midwest


In the Summer heat these air cooled v twins need the protection. I don't have an oil temp gauge but know that two hours after parking the bike you still don't want to touch the side of the motor. IMO the smartest thing to do is to run the xw50. Plus with it being a shared sump starting with the thicker oil just makes sense. Also, my 650 seems a bit quieter with the 50 grade. These bikes are known for being a little noisy with ticks and rattles. Call me crazy but I think I notice it more with a 40 grade in it. I just recently dumped the Rotella 15w40 (Fall/Spring fill) and went to Valvoline synthetic 20w50. Rode it yesterday for about 3 hours, 2 of those hours were just highway with the needle at 75. That's just over 5000 rpm's on these bikes. It was about 84 yesterday so not too hot but I feel much better knowing it has the thicker oil in it.

The reason I'm running the Valvoline is because for some reason Walmart was clearing it out for $4 a qt a while back (synthetic). It was the same price as the dino. I bought all they had, mostly the 20w50 and about 4-5 of the 10w40. I have a ton of M1 20w50 as well and a bunch of the M1 15w50. Although the M1 15w50 is not JASO MA rated I've run it plenty and never had a problem.

Like you said, the bike only takes 3 qts, and with the filter being like $4 at menards, oil changes on the 650 are pretty reasonable. I know I change my bike's oil too often but I enjoy doing it. The gear oil too. I am currently using Valvoline synthetic 80w90. It only takes like 8oz's or so and can be done in less than 10 minutes. I changed this a few times in the first 5000 miles and it was always tons of metal flakes. Now it's pretty clean at about 18000 miles but I still change it well before the 10000 mile interval. Probably every 3000, it's only 8oz's and something to do when it's raining.

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