454 TBI oil for tow truck use, need best economy

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I'd love to see BITOG's opinion on oils to use in a particular application.

I haven't bought a truck yet but I'm pretty set on what I want. It'll be an 80s C30 rollback with a TBI 454 and a 4-speed manual, and then it'll get swapped out for an NV4500 5-speed manual. Gears I'll be shooting for 4.10 or so. The truck will be my daily workhorse, and it'll be towing cars all over town and the state of Ohio. I expect to put about 6000-8000 miles a month or more on the truck and oil changes will probably come twice a month at that rate, longer if a UOA permits. Weather here in the summer is well, Ohio weather anywhere from 60 to 100. Winters, we just had a rough one, down to -40 wind chill, -15 actual. If it makes sense to run different weights summer/winter I'm all for it.

I've been using Mobil 1300 Super 15W40 in the diesel trucks this company runs. The company owners have a decent jobber price for the gallon bottles so those are what end up being run. I'm willing to get something else for a truck of my own, I just need to figure out what.

A 454 is I suppose a pretty loose engine. Would a 10W30 HDEO be appropriate? Would a 5W30 HDEO be too thin?

My goals ultimately are to keep the engine running smoothly and to maximize fuel economy in the truck as it is. I don't want a diesel as I've already seen how expensive the parts that do wear out are and how much of a pain they are to work on. 7.3 IDI and PSD and DT466 while efficient and strong are just too expensive. Maybe less so on the DT466 that truck is a thirsty little piggy. I suppose I'd consider a 6.2 NA diesel. And if the 454 blows up it would get a 6.0 or 8.1 LS engine to replace it.

Anyway, all that aside, what's the verdict on big block gas engine oils when economy is the key deciding factor?
 
For the type of usage you're going to be doing, fuel economy due to the crankcase oil will be a literal drop in the bucket based on what your right foot does.

That being said I would use 5w30 year round. At 6-8k miles per month you could likely go several months between oil changes but let a UOA be your guide. I would be wary of fuel dilution with a 30 year old truck so 15w40 may be more appropriate.
 
I don't recall hearing "big block" and "economy" in the same sentence before. However IME my brother's 440 1971 Chrysler got 20 mpg from VA to FL a few years back, with a light foot and highway gears (3.23?).

I can recommend using Amsoil in the diffs and transmission/tcase, there are many instances of increased mpg with those fluids.

What is the engine spec'd for?
 
If normal OCIs are your plan, I would recommend a 10w-30 HDEO. Perhaps T5, as it is very easy to get and very cost effective if you run it long enough.

But ...

Given your description of averaging perhaps 7k miles a month, that approaches 85k miles a year. I would HIGHLY recommend considering a good synthetic lube and bypass filtration, and add a sample port such as the Fumoto valve or other ball valve on an oil port. That way you can sample your oil and have it analyzed, and maximize your O/FCIs. Anyone who drives that much is a candidate for such investments, because a well-mamanged plan can pay you back big time, but ONLY if you manage it properly. This is not a system that is cost effective if you try to guess your way into an OCI; it must be tracked and managed. The 454 does not have a large sump, so the cost of UOAs will play into the whole fiscal consideration as well as initial system costs and also additional maintenance costs. It's not an approach for the lazy or quick-to-wrench; it's a method of saving money by overall management of the entire maintenance plan. If you choose this, then either a true PAO 5w-30 or 10w-30 would do well, and HDEO would not really be a necessity.
 
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Originally Posted By: occupant
I'd love to see BITOG's opinion on oils to use in a particular application.

I haven't bought a truck yet but I'm pretty set on what I want. It'll be an 80s C30 rollback with a TBI 454 and a 4-speed manual, and then it'll get swapped out for an NV4500 5-speed manual. Gears I'll be shooting for 4.10 or so. The truck will be my daily workhorse, and it'll be towing cars all over town and the state of Ohio. I expect to put about 6000-8000 miles a month or more on the truck and oil changes will probably come twice a month at that rate, longer if a UOA permits. Weather here in the summer is well, Ohio weather anywhere from 60 to 100. Winters, we just had a rough one, down to -40 wind chill, -15 actual. If it makes sense to run different weights summer/winter I'm all for it.

I've been using Mobil 1300 Super 15W40 in the diesel trucks this company runs. The company owners have a decent jobber price for the gallon bottles so those are what end up being run. I'm willing to get something else for a truck of my own, I just need to figure out what.

A 454 is I suppose a pretty loose engine. Would a 10W30 HDEO be appropriate? Would a 5W30 HDEO be too thin?

My goals ultimately are to keep the engine running smoothly and to maximize fuel economy in the truck as it is. I don't want a diesel as I've already seen how expensive the parts that do wear out are and how much of a pain they are to work on. 7.3 IDI and PSD and DT466 while efficient and strong are just too expensive. Maybe less so on the DT466 that truck is a thirsty little piggy. I suppose I'd consider a 6.2 NA diesel. And if the 454 blows up it would get a 6.0 or 8.1 LS engine to replace it.

Anyway, all that aside, what's the verdict on big block gas engine oils when economy is the key deciding factor?


Get a diesel. I had a TBI 454 in a 3/4-ton '88 Suburban with 4.10 gears. It got 10 mpg in regular usage and 8 mpg while towing 5000 pounds. If you're going to average 7000 miles a month and if you get 8 mpg (which is optimistic, considering that truck is heavier than my Suburban), you will be paying $3325 in monthly fuel bills, assuming $3.80 gasoline price. That's about $40,000 in annual fuel costs. Can you make money with that kind of operating cost?

I traded the Suburban in on my '01 Dodge Ram diesel with an NV4500 transmission and 4.10 gears. This truck gives me 20 mpg in regular use and 15 mpg towing the same load. Assuming you get the same mileage, your monthly fuel bill would be $1867, assuming $4.00 diesel price. That's a savings of $17500 per year in fuel cost alone. If you want to stay GM, get a Duramax to swap into the truck that you get. But I swear by the Cummins 5.9. Mine has 243,000 miles on it, and it's still just getting broken in. If you can get the engine swap done for ~$10k, the diesel will pay for itself within a year.

And another suggestion I would make is to put a GearVendors overdrive on the back of the NV4500, whether you keep the gas engine or do as I say and convert to diesel. The 454 probably wouldn't have enough torque to run in double overdrive while loaded, but it would save revs on the engine when you're running empty. The Cummins engine has enough torque to run the truck at 75 mph in double overdrive while loaded.
 
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Make sure the NV4500 has had 5th gear fixed with the updated retaining nut, otherwise it can spit 5th off the back of the output shaft.
 
Originally Posted By: occupant
I'd love to see BITOG's opinion on oils to use in a particular application.

I haven't bought a truck yet but I'm pretty set on what I want. It'll be an 80s C30 rollback with a TBI 454 and a 4-speed manual, and then it'll get swapped out for an NV4500 5-speed manual. Gears I'll be shooting for 4.10 or so. The truck will be my daily workhorse, and it'll be towing cars all over town and the state of Ohio. I expect to put about 6000-8000 miles a month or more on the truck and oil changes will probably come twice a month at that rate, longer if a UOA permits. Weather here in the summer is well, Ohio weather anywhere from 60 to 100. Winters, we just had a rough one, down to -40 wind chill, -15 actual. If it makes sense to run different weights summer/winter I'm all for it.

I've been using Mobil 1300 Super 15W40 in the diesel trucks this company runs. The company owners have a decent jobber price for the gallon bottles so those are what end up being run. I'm willing to get something else for a truck of my own, I just need to figure out what.

A 454 is I suppose a pretty loose engine. Would a 10W30 HDEO be appropriate? Would a 5W30 HDEO be too thin?

My goals ultimately are to keep the engine running smoothly and to maximize fuel economy in the truck as it is. I don't want a diesel as I've already seen how expensive the parts that do wear out are and how much of a pain they are to work on. 7.3 IDI and PSD and DT466 while efficient and strong are just too expensive. Maybe less so on the DT466 that truck is a thirsty little piggy. I suppose I'd consider a 6.2 NA diesel. And if the 454 blows up it would get a 6.0 or 8.1 LS engine to replace it.

Anyway, all that aside, what's the verdict on big block gas engine oils when economy is the key deciding factor?


You want a diesel engine.
 
Originally Posted By: occupant
A 454 is I suppose a pretty loose engine. Would a 10W30 HDEO be appropriate? Would a 5W30 HDEO be too thin?

You're not going to get very far on fuel economy with oils. Nonetheless, a 5w-30 HDEO will not be too thin, since they have an HTHS of 3.5 or higher, which is greater than any ILSAC rated 10w-30. The downside is that a 5w-30 HDEO could be pretty expensive.

A 10w-30 HDEO might be your best bet for cost.
 
Make sure if you are changing the fly wheel you get the external balanced one.
The Hastings equivalent to Fram PH 373 (long one)will work well with old style BBCs.
Do not plug the filter by pass with a cap screw, BBCs need all the oil they can get.
HV oil pumps are a good idea with BBCs. In your case an oil cooler wouldn't hurt, seven blade fan, 4 core rad, 540 crate engine, ect.

You know, all the Bear necessities.
 
I have heard of Edelbrock making a TBI to multi port injection converter, but I don't know how many MPG you may gain. It was designed so that you could keep several parts from your TBI engine, saving a great deal of money. I only know that it does create more horsepower.
 
I got almost the same fuel economy with a '98 454 V8 in a Chevy 2500 that I am getting with my present '13 5.3L 1500. Right at around 16 average for all miles on the '98 (and it had 4.10 diffs), right at about 17 mpg for the 2013 for all miles (with 3.42 diffs). When the 454 is running properly, they are not bad on fuel economy. Of course, you have to remember you are not at an NHRA rally when you drive it.

That all being said, after the first couple of oil changes, I always used a 5w30 QS synthetic in it and never used more than a qt in 3000 miles. Traded it in on a Jeep when the pickup had about 100K on it and it ran as good as the day I bought it. There have been days when I wished I would have kept it. Last Chevy pickup that I truly liked.

The 454 was one of those engines I truly loved. I had one in a 1973 El Camino SS and the one in the '98 2500. Sure wish it was still offered.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I got almost the same fuel economy with a '98 454 V8 in a Chevy 2500 that I am getting with my present '13 5.3L 1500. Right at around 16 average for all miles on the '98 (and it had 4.10 diffs), right at about 17 mpg for the 2013 for all miles (with 3.42 diffs). When the 454 is running properly, they are not bad on fuel economy. Of course, you have to remember you are not at an NHRA rally when you drive it.

Your 454 had milti-port EFI, and the OP has a 454 TBI engine. Multi-port engines typically have a fuel efficiency advantage over TBI engines.

How much of an advantage, I don't really know.
 
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Oil for a 454, SAE30 summer / 10W30 T5 in winter.

If he should use obsolete SAE 30 in the summer, shouldn't he stick with it in the winter and just dilute it with 10% kerosene?
wink.gif
An HDEO in 10w-30 or 5w-30 would be fine year round.
 
The sump on my '99 Vortec 454 3500 is 7 qts,i run Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 all year around,from pulling my loaded 31' 5er in 90 deg temps to just going to work the oil works and mileage isn't horrible.
 
The 454 doesn't give a rats (pun intended) a** which oil you use. It's going to use a qt every 1000-1400 miles no matter if you are working it hard or just sitting at idle. Personally on my "good" big blocks I run 15w-40 in the summer and 5w-40 in the winter, but on most of them I just run whatever I get for a $1 a qt in my stash. And to answer your question, I don't think any oil will do anything for fuel economy, it is what it is.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Get a diesel. I had a TBI 454 in a 3/4-ton '88 Suburban with 4.10 gears. It got 10 mpg in regular usage and 8 mpg while towing 5000 pounds. If you're going to average 7000 miles a month and if you get 8 mpg (which is optimistic, considering that truck is heavier than my Suburban), you will be paying $3325 in monthly fuel bills, assuming $3.80 gasoline price. That's about $40,000 in annual fuel costs. Can you make money with that kind of operating cost?

I traded the Suburban in on my '01 Dodge Ram diesel with an NV4500 transmission and 4.10 gears. This truck gives me 20 mpg in regular use and 15 mpg towing the same load. Assuming you get the same mileage, your monthly fuel bill would be $1867, assuming $4.00 diesel price. That's a savings of $17500 per year in fuel cost alone. If you want to stay GM, get a Duramax to swap into the truck that you get. But I swear by the Cummins 5.9. Mine has 243,000 miles on it, and it's still just getting broken in. If you can get the engine swap done for ~$10k, the diesel will pay for itself within a year.

And another suggestion I would make is to put a GearVendors overdrive on the back of the NV4500, whether you keep the gas engine or do as I say and convert to diesel. The 454 probably wouldn't have enough torque to run in double overdrive while loaded, but it would save revs on the engine when you're running empty. The Cummins engine has enough torque to run the truck at 75 mph in double overdrive while loaded.


Gas has been $3.60 a gallon on average the last year in Ohio. Diesel more like $4.00 a gallon. So right up front there is a 10% cost penalty to use diesel. If I can get 10mpg on gas, then the fuel cost EQUALS the diesel at 11mpg.

I don't have twenty grand to blow on a Cummins powered rollback. But I would entertain doing a Cummins swap on the gas powered rollback later on.

Where a gas engine really saves is in parts. Add up a clutch, a front brake job, injectors, glow plugs, oils and filters, and some other normal maintenance items for a 6.2, 6.5, IDI, Powerstroke, or Cummins (like I already have). Then match up a year's worth of maintenance on a gas engine (filters, fluids, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, brakes, TBI injectors, ignition module, clutch, fuel pump, etc) and check out the thousands of dollars in difference.

Also, I'm not a diesel mechanic, nor do I really want to learn. If I blow a head gasket I'd much rather do one on a 454 than a high compression diesel. I don't even want to know the machine shop costs on a Cummins head or worse, the replacement costs. If the 454 cracks a head, it's repairable. If it's NOT repairable, there are heads EVERYWHERE. Could upgrade to aluminum heads and intake while I'm at it. Can't do that with a diesel.

I'd love to do a Vortec 454, but it might be more difficult to wire up and if I'm going to spend a month piecing a harness together I'd just as soon do a 6.0L LS engine or go straight to the Cummins 12V swap. Ideally I'll be able to get a TBI 454 truck, 88-91 or so, run it, and save up for some sort of swap or upgrade be it TBI to Vortec, TBI to LS, or TBI to Cummins.

I have four trucks on my radar, three TBIs ($5000, $6000, $6500) and one carbureted ($4000). The carbureted one, naturally, is the cheapest. I imagine swapping carb to TBI would be simple and quick and then I could go from there. Hey, $4000 tow truck ready to work I might even run the carb for a few months and have a better swap candidate ready by then, maybe a rolled 3/4 ton Dodge diesel, you know?

But there's other factors, I want the longest bed I can get (17 and 17.5 foot won't cut it, needs to be 18 foot or better yet a 18.5 or 19 foot) and I would like a full function wheel lift as opposed to a stinger/towbar or nothing at all.

I'm also considering getting a 3500HD rollback (which would probably BE a Vortec 454/NV4500 as is ) and then swapping a C/K cab and front clip in there. Get the looks without the 12000-13000 GVWR limit.
 
I would add-watch for an F-Super Duty one as well, preferably 7.3 IDI & ZF 5 speed. I can squeeze 12-13 MPG out of mine if I baby it, & it's over 12,000 loaded. Can't see getting over 10 with a 454.
 
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