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#3394373 - 06/10/14 09:21 PM Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
My engine is quiet (that's saying something for the normally noisy Testastretta) and likes to rev on this oil, but for some reason the gearbox seems to not like it. The Ducati gear box is clanky by nature but this oil accents it. And it wants to stick fairly often on the 3-2 and 2-1 downshift requiring an extra firm mash. Have heard of a few other Duc riders who report shift quality issues on Motul 300V, which is also a full ester syn oil. The head scratcher is why does the engine seem to "like" it but the gearbox doesn't? Oil is Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 full ester synthetic. Oh, one other thing about the Silkolene: clutch engagement is super smooth, to the point of making me feel like the king of slow full lock parking lot u-turns. You know, the rear brake clutch slip 180's req'd back in the day when we took the MSF basic course....

_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3394460 - 06/10/14 11:53 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Marco620 Offline


Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 221
Loc: Midwest, Rural KS
Tried redline motorcycle oil? Call Dave at tech support for redline oil. He can probably tell you what might be going on. Good luck

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#3394483 - 06/11/14 01:23 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
Because engines and gearboxes are completely different operating environments. When space allows, they usually have individual sumps filled with an oil tailored to them. Just keep trying different oils till one works well in both the engine and gearbox. If your bike can use a 40wt, that opens up most HDEOs, and many people have good results with those in motorcycles.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3394603 - 06/11/14 08:00 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
Bandito440 Offline


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1652
Loc: Northern NY
Yes to both of these. If you're looking for a high quality synthetic, Red Line is worth your consideration. Dave is very helpful when it comes to these issues. Give them an email or call.

It may be worth trying a short run of some plain ol' Rotella T Triple 15w-40 just to see what happens.

Originally Posted By: Marco620
Tried redline motorcycle oil? Call Dave at tech support for redline oil. He can probably tell you what might be going on. Good luck

Originally Posted By: NeuroticHapiSnak
Because engines and gearboxes are completely different operating environments. When space allows, they usually have individual sumps filled with an oil tailored to them. Just keep trying different oils till one works well in both the engine and gearbox. If your bike can use a 40wt, that opens up most HDEOs, and many people have good results with those in motorcycles.
_________________________
'13 Forester 2.5X 5MT - NAPA 0w-20 & Wix 57830
'97 R1100GS - RL 20w-50, KN-163, Shockproof Heavy

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#3394660 - 06/11/14 09:05 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1631
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
clutch grippy oil vs clutch slippery oil ?

grin
_________________________
motorcycle oil myth buster

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#3394862 - 06/11/14 02:24 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
The clutch engages smooth yet positive and strong. No slippage under full throttle runs.



Oils tried and observations:

Factory fill 10W40 mineral oil - Smooth quiet engine, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch.

Spectro Platinum 4 Ultra 15W50 - moderate engine vibes but quiet, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic. Engine felt a little ball less at high rpm.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (JASO MA) - smooth but noisy engine, smooth gearbox, slightly grabby clutch. VISOM / PAO / Aklylated Naphthalene blend (Grp III+/IV/V blend) synthetic.

Amsoil MCT 10W40 (JASO MA2) - more engine vibes than Mobil 1 and just as noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic

Shell Rotella T 15W40 HDEO (JASO MA2) - worst engine vibes of any oil so far + engine noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch. Conventional. Tried it because everyone raves about it, was not impressed upon use, drained prematurely to get rid of it.

Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (JASO MA2)- smooth quiet engine, clonky gearbox, smooth positive clutch. Full ester synthetic.


For those unfamiliar with the Ducati Testastretta engine, it is a 1198cc 90 degree twin, liquid cooled and oil cooled, DOHC 4 valves per cyl. Notorious for a fair amount of mechanical noise when running.
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3395039 - 06/11/14 06:24 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
jeffmc Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 28
Loc: charlotte nc
try this Castrol Power Racing RS. I have tested alot of oils but my Wing loves it.

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#3395122 - 06/11/14 08:27 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25941
Loc: Michigan
Sounds like you've tried just about all the major ones. How about Valvoline 4T 10w-40?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3395183 - 06/11/14 09:53 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 358
Loc: The Canyons
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
The clutch engages smooth yet positive and strong. No slippage under full throttle runs.



Oils tried and observations:

Factory fill 10W40 mineral oil - Smooth quiet engine, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch.

Spectro Platinum 4 Ultra 15W50 - moderate engine vibes but quiet, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic. Engine felt a little ball less at high rpm.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (JASO MA) - smooth but noisy engine, smooth gearbox, slightly grabby clutch. VISOM / PAO / Aklylated Naphthalene blend (Grp III+/IV/V blend) synthetic.

Amsoil MCT 10W40 (JASO MA2) - more engine vibes than Mobil 1 and just as noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic

Shell Rotella T 15W40 HDEO (JASO MA2) - worst engine vibes of any oil so far + engine noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch. Conventional. Tried it because everyone raves about it, was not impressed upon use, drained prematurely to get rid of it.

Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (JASO MA2)- smooth quiet engine, clonky gearbox, smooth positive clutch. Full ester synthetic.


For those unfamiliar with the Ducati Testastretta engine, it is a 1198cc 90 degree twin, liquid cooled and oil cooled, DOHC 4 valves per cyl. Notorious for a fair amount of mechanical noise when running.


It sounds like you and your Duck like the factory fill best. So why not just run that?

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#3395215 - 06/11/14 10:28 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
Rotella was the short run oil right before Silkolene. I wonder if there is any chance the residual Rotella (Grp II) is messing up the Silkolene (Grp V)? Thorough drain but there is always residual old oil left from cling and pooling. New OEM filter was used for the change.
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3395217 - 06/11/14 10:31 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25941
Loc: Michigan
What makes you think that Ester is the important ingredient here and not the add pack?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3395383 - 06/12/14 07:23 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
what in the additive package would make the shifting hard? Or lack of what?
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3395391 - 06/12/14 07:36 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
RedVic Offline


Registered: 06/10/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Florida
I have a Victory Cross Country Tour and it has a Air/Oil cooled 1731cc V-twin that shares the engine oil with the transmission.

I use Redline 20w-50 in it and it shifts nice for the entire 5,000 mile oil change intervals the owners manual calls for.

Victory specs their engines for 20w-40 semi-synthetic oil but the Victory brand 20w-40 semi-synthetic is priced like a full synthetic and most who stick with it end up changing the Victory branded oil at 2,500 to 3,000 miles due to rough shifting developing.

I have had a total of three UOA's done on this engine while using the Redline 20w-50 and the Victory oil only crowd will tell you that you are going to blow up the engine because Victory designed it for 20w-40 and full synthetic will cause your clutch to slip, yet I have used full synthetic in this bike since first oil change that was done at 479 miles and have never had the clutch slip.

The UOA's all read fine with good numbers showing nothing unusual with wear.

I figure if I am going to pay full synthetic price for oil I might as well buy real full synthetic oil.

After all Victory oil being a semi-synthetic means it is mostly a group II oil with just enough Synthetic added to call it a semi-synthetic but they charge full synthetic prices for it and I just can't justify paying synthetic oil prices for what is really a group II oil with some synthetic added.

Victory is making money hand over fist as the vast majority of Victory owners on Victory forums have fallen for the myth that they must use only the Victory brand oil or they will blow up their engines or their clutch will slip.

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#3395471 - 06/12/14 09:17 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25941
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
what in the additive package would make the shifting hard? Or lack of what?

Friction modifiers, maybe?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3395485 - 06/12/14 09:25 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1631
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
LR,
would you consider using a 20w50?
what about the Maxima or Motul lines?
_________________________
motorcycle oil myth buster

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#3395529 - 06/12/14 10:23 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
KernelK Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 91
Loc: PA
It would appear that you are determined to try every high priced oil in the attempt to find oil performance equivalent to the factory fill 10w-40 mineral oil.

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#3395673 - 06/12/14 01:06 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
How about you tell me what the factory fill oil was then. That particular question has been debated in the Ducati forums and there is no particular answer. Based on info from one or more UOA's on samples captured from the factory fill draining at the 600 mile 1st service, it is believed to be 10W40 mineral. Some have said 10W40 but Shell Advance Ultra 4 syn not mineral. Same problem, since Shell Advance Ultra 4 cannot be sourced in the US.

Next up I may try a 10W50, perhaps Motorex, which is another PAO / ester blend synthetic. Both the Mobil 1 10W40 and Amsoil 10W40 got the privilege of being in the engine last summer and both convinced me they are either just "noisy" oils or 10W40 is too thin for the summer climate here (even though the manual blesses 10W40 with no upper temp limit). The valve train clatter at idle in traffic in the heat got to be a little much on those two oils. Not that the desmo valve train is ever really quiet when compared to a traditional valve train design.

From the manual:

_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3395676 - 06/12/14 01:10 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1631
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
it is spendy, but why not Maxima Extra4 15w50 ?
_________________________
motorcycle oil myth buster

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#3395827 - 06/12/14 03:59 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Analyzer Offline


Registered: 09/11/13
Posts: 143
Loc: 805, Ca
I agree with Sunruh and would give either Maxima Extra 4 or Motul's 300V a try, as they both have either the 10W40 or 15W50 viscosites to choose from (Sunruh had great success with Maxima, and a recent VOA/UOA of Motul's also did superb).

Although I'm not 100% sure, I'm nearly positive the Factory Fill in Ducati (along with their recommended oil to utilize) is Shell's Advance oil that isn't available here in the States. Shell has a habit of teaming up with high-performance Italian manufacturers and has been with Ducati since 1999 providing lubricants and fuels, along with the first Ferrari that came out of their factory.


Edited by Analyzer (06/12/14 04:00 PM)
_________________________
2007 Yamaha FZ1
1986 Yamaha FZX700 Fazer
1995 Honda Accord LX
1992 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer 4x4

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#3395920 - 06/12/14 05:47 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Franklim Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
Motorex 10w50 is a good oil when used on my FA. Shift smoothly all the way to 5k km according to my butt feel. Has been using it for a few times in my FA.

LR, I can send you a case of Shell Advance Ultra fully syn if you willing to pay for shipping. They are selling about $52 Ringgit in Shell petrol in Malaysia. Shell engine oil are not popular in Singapore. A lot of bikers loves Motul 300V.
_________________________
2011 Black Suzuki GSX1250FA -Motul 300V 10W40(ester core) & K&N 138 .

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#3396062 - 06/12/14 08:50 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
KernelK Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 91
Loc: PA
I doubt that the factory fill was mineral. If you are interested, Shell Advance Ultra 10w-40 is available on Amazon, but is very expensive.

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#3396106 - 06/12/14 10:16 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: Franklim]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: Franklim
Motorex 10w50 is a good oil when used on my FA. Shift smoothly all the way to 5k km according to my butt feel. Has been using it for a few times in my FA.

LR, I can send you a case of Shell Advance Ultra fully syn if you willing to pay for shipping. They are selling about $52 Ringgit in Shell petrol in Malaysia. Shell engine oil are not popular in Singapore. A lot of bikers loves Motul 300V.


A case of 6 liters of Shell Advance Ultra 4 15W50 sells for only $52 Ringgit in Malaysia?
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3396191 - 06/13/14 01:10 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Franklim Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
LR, oops. Sorry. $52 Ringgit for a bottle (1 litre ). A case of 6 will be $312 Ringgit or SGD$122 .
_________________________
2011 Black Suzuki GSX1250FA -Motul 300V 10W40(ester core) & K&N 138 .

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#3396886 - 06/13/14 07:02 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: KernelK]
Ducman Offline


Registered: 03/18/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: KernelK
I doubt that the factory fill was mineral. If you are interested, Shell Advance Ultra 10w-40 is available on Amazon, but is very expensive.


Why do you doubt the DUCATI factory fill is a mineral oil?


I see no reason to think DUCATI would have anything "other" than a mineral oil as a factory fill.
I personally see no legitimate reason why they would want to use a synthetic oil as a factory fill.
The main reasons are as follows.

1) It's only intended to be in the machine for 1000 kms then changed at the first service @ 1000 kms or 12months whichever occurs first. If it's overdue for it's first service, I would doubt it would ultimately go much beyond 1600 kms before it was changed, and a mineral oil would suffice.

2) It's more cost effective for them to use a Group II oil as a factory fill.

3) A mineral oil is totally suitable, and fit for purpose under the recommended Break-in operating conditions.
DUCATI states the following in the current Owners Manuals.
(Maximum 5000 rpm for the first 1000 kms. Maximum 6000 rpm for the following 1500 kms.)

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#3396901 - 06/13/14 07:14 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: Quattro Pete]
Ducman Offline


Registered: 03/18/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
what in the additive package would make the shifting hard? Or lack of what?

Friction modifiers, maybe?



It could be anything that's not playing nice.

I have a couple of examples where it took 2 separate oil changes to completely wash out a residual additive from the factory fill oil, and stabilize at the base line number of the oil I'm currently running.

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#3396986 - 06/13/14 09:12 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
CentAmDL650 Offline


Registered: 06/11/13
Posts: 62
Loc: FL
I switched from Mobil 1 4T to Motul 300V full (double) ester, both 10W40, and other than a 60% increase in cost, it was a noticeable improvement. It made the engine more rev-able, and the valvetrain quieter, but it solved my biggest gripe by making the shifting immensely smoother for me. Night and day difference - no notchiness, no rough shifts, no rejected shifts, and considerably lighter and more "fluid" effort to make the shift happen. The improvement lasted throughout the entire recommended 3500 mile OCI, while every other oil I had tried (including Rotella T) seemed to cause difficult shifts at or before 2000 miles, leading me to change them out. Granted, I'm running a V-Strom, not a Ducati, so there likely are other variables in play that account for your observations.

After doing UOAs on the oils I tried, I came to the conclusion that the viscosity and any shearing/ loss of viscosity had no effect on the shifting. In fact, the 300V 10W40 started and finished at 12.15 cSt @ 100įC, which is considerably lower than where any of the Mobil 1 4T fills finished, which were 12.75 & 12.67 cSt, IIRC. The higher viscosity of M1 may have provided more protection against wear, but the jury is still out on that, and that's not the point I'm trying to make.

When asking why the viscosity was not the dominant factor in shift quality, I was pointed to an Amsoil white paper that suggested the oil's friction characteristics may not remain stabile throughout an OCI and could potentially change the oil's JASO range with more mileage on it. So an oil I used might start as a JASO MA-1 and gradually move into the JASO MA-2 range for instance, making the clutch engagement more abrupt and some engagement/ drag to occur even with lever pulled. With the oil providing more friction at the "disengaged" clutch the shifting would become increasingly awkward. That's the theory at least, and led someone on that thread to suggest that a simple clutch adjustment could make an improvement in shifting. I didn't try it but I think they meant you may need more disengagement with the lever pulled in - move the bite point closer to the beginning of the lever's range.

Of course it would also be interesting to see a VOA/UOA of that Silkolene and compare it to the Redline 4T & Motul 300V.

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#3397072 - 06/13/14 11:06 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Franklim Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 32
Loc: Singapore
I am using Mobil 1 4T on my FA for thr past 2 oil changes now. I notice that in city riding where there is lots of stop and go traffic, Mobil 1 4T upshifting is smooth but downshifting become a bit rough to downshift into lower gears.

At my last oil change, I used Mobil 1 4T for about 1500km and rode up from Singapore to Thailand and back using the same Mobil 1 4T. On each trip up and down , I was riding on an average speed of 160km/h and it took about 11 to 12 hours with some breaks and fuel stops. Mobil 1 4T performed fawless during the whole trip. When i came back home, the oil was still working fine unlike Repsol fully syn which was toasted in the same situation on another trip when came back.Going to try Motul 300V 10w40 next time.

Here are some oils tested on my FA.
Mobil 10w40 semi syn
Agrip 10w40 fully syn
Castrol 10w50 fully syn
Motul 5100 15w50 semi syn
Motorex 10W50 power synt
Repsol 10W40 fully syn
Bardahl 10w50 fully syn
IPOne 10W50 fully syn
Mobil 1 4T 10w40 fully syn

verdict according to my butt feel :
Best oil - Motorex , Mobil 1, Castrol
worst oil - Bardahl , Repsol.
_________________________
2011 Black Suzuki GSX1250FA -Motul 300V 10W40(ester core) & K&N 138 .

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#3397093 - 06/13/14 11:21 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
Think what I may do is change it out with a fresh batch of Silkolene again. Right now it's technically 1 part Rotella T 15W40 and 7 parts Silkolene Pro 4 15W50. This is because the capacity is 4.1 liters and it took about 3.5 liters of Silkolene to fill it, meaning 1/2 liter of left over Rotella stayed in. New filter used.

That's enough left over Rotella T that it could have messed with the chemistry of the Silkolene a little bit.

Means another OEM filter too and they aren't cheap. Ducati Ducati, you are a finicky biatch with champagne tastes......
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3397268 - 06/14/14 08:49 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Florida /Texas
OIls and shifting, there's a gate , it either meets the gate or it doesn't. Rotella is a very strong clutch oil, and depending on the bike, that may mean the most notchy shifting you've ever seen.

One of the slickest shifting oils Ive run, is mobil 1 hm car oil, you can feel the slickness with free wheeling in the clutch,but too slick on the clutch imo, longterm, I think you would develop premature clutch issues down the road.

In between those, most oils fit in the normal range of acceptable or not in meeting the gate.

So it really depends on which side of the gate your on.

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#3397412 - 06/14/14 01:24 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: Mackelroy]
KernelK Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 91
Loc: PA
Is the gate open or closed?

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#3397552 - 06/14/14 05:02 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
It's closed but the horses already got out.
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3397573 - 06/14/14 05:38 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
KernelK Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 91
Loc: PA
Guffaw! grin

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#3397591 - 06/14/14 06:00 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: Ducman]
KernelK Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 91
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Ducman
Originally Posted By: KernelK
I doubt that the factory fill was mineral. If you are interested, Shell Advance Ultra 10w-40 is available on Amazon, but is very expensive.


Why do you doubt the DUCATI factory fill is a mineral oil?


I see no reason to think DUCATI would have anything "other" than a mineral oil as a factory fill.
I personally see no legitimate reason why they would want to use a synthetic oil as a factory fill.
The main reasons are as follows.

1) It's only intended to be in the machine for 1000 kms then changed at the first service @ 1000 kms or 12months whichever occurs first. If it's overdue for it's first service, I would doubt it would ultimately go much beyond 1600 kms before it was changed, and a mineral oil would suffice.

2) It's more cost effective for them to use a Group II oil as a factory fill.

3) A mineral oil is totally suitable, and fit for purpose under the recommended Break-in operating conditions.
DUCATI states the following in the current Owners Manuals.
(Maximum 5000 rpm for the first 1000 kms. Maximum 6000 rpm for the following 1500 kms.)


Here is one indication:

http://www.ducati.com/ducati_shell_advance_.do

Ducati is a high end motorcycle manufacturer who specifically recommend Shell Advance. As such, I wouldn't think it out realm of possibility that they would have agreements to purchase Shell Advance lubricants to use in the factory.

Other high end manufacturers such as Corvette and Aston Martin, among others, deliver their products with synthetic lubes installed. Why not Ducati?

Perhaps you should forward your cost and lubricant suitability concerns to the Ducati factory.

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#3398050 - 06/15/14 09:42 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: KernelK]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Florida /Texas
The gate is just a line on the road, there's very few oils shift badly with a good transmission, most fall within the same category plus or minus 5%.

But as mention rotella 15w40 and mobil1 hm car oil are two extremes that show an obvious difference with the clutch and shifting, between high friction and slickness.

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#3399082 - 06/16/14 04:06 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1459
Loc: Midwest
Adjusted the shift lever down some and it is easier to overcome the sticky 3-2 down shift now. Still going to drain the current 7:1 Silkolene:Rotella mixture and put in a fresh fill of Silkolene. I did the math. It will reduce prior fill contamination (Rotella T) from 16 oz's down to 2 ounces. That is, there should be only around 2 oz's of left over Rotella in the mix after drain and fill with more Silkolene. Getting to a purer fill of the chosen oil gives me a warm fuzzy anyhow.
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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