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#3394373 - 06/10/14 09:21 PM Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts
LoneRanger Online   content


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1527
Loc: Midwest
My engine is quiet (that's saying something for the normally noisy Testastretta) and likes to rev on this oil, but for some reason the gearbox seems to not like it. The Ducati gear box is clanky by nature but this oil accents it. And it wants to stick fairly often on the 3-2 and 2-1 downshift requiring an extra firm mash. Have heard of a few other Duc riders who report shift quality issues on Motul 300V, which is also a full ester syn oil. The head scratcher is why does the engine seem to "like" it but the gearbox doesn't? Oil is Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 full ester synthetic. Oh, one other thing about the Silkolene: clutch engagement is super smooth, to the point of making me feel like the king of slow full lock parking lot u-turns. You know, the rear brake clutch slip 180's req'd back in the day when we took the MSF basic course....

_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3394460 - 06/10/14 11:53 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Marco620 Offline


Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 255
Loc: Midwest, Rural KS
Tried redline motorcycle oil? Call Dave at tech support for redline oil. He can probably tell you what might be going on. Good luck

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#3394483 - 06/11/14 01:23 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
Because engines and gearboxes are completely different operating environments. When space allows, they usually have individual sumps filled with an oil tailored to them. Just keep trying different oils till one works well in both the engine and gearbox. If your bike can use a 40wt, that opens up most HDEOs, and many people have good results with those in motorcycles.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3394603 - 06/11/14 08:00 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
Bandito440 Offline


Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 1734
Loc: Northern NY
Yes to both of these. If you're looking for a high quality synthetic, Red Line is worth your consideration. Dave is very helpful when it comes to these issues. Give them an email or call.

It may be worth trying a short run of some plain ol' Rotella T Triple 15w-40 just to see what happens.

Originally Posted By: Marco620
Tried redline motorcycle oil? Call Dave at tech support for redline oil. He can probably tell you what might be going on. Good luck

Originally Posted By: NeuroticHapiSnak
Because engines and gearboxes are completely different operating environments. When space allows, they usually have individual sumps filled with an oil tailored to them. Just keep trying different oils till one works well in both the engine and gearbox. If your bike can use a 40wt, that opens up most HDEOs, and many people have good results with those in motorcycles.
_________________________
'13 Forester 2.5X 5MT - NAPA 0w-20 & Wix 57830
'97 R1100GS - RL 20w-50, KN-163, Shockproof Heavy

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#3394660 - 06/11/14 09:05 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1636
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
clutch grippy oil vs clutch slippery oil ?

grin
_________________________
motorcycle oil myth buster

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#3394862 - 06/11/14 02:24 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Online   content


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1527
Loc: Midwest
The clutch engages smooth yet positive and strong. No slippage under full throttle runs.



Oils tried and observations:

Factory fill 10W40 mineral oil - Smooth quiet engine, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch.

Spectro Platinum 4 Ultra 15W50 - moderate engine vibes but quiet, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic. Engine felt a little ball less at high rpm.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (JASO MA) - smooth but noisy engine, smooth gearbox, slightly grabby clutch. VISOM / PAO / Aklylated Naphthalene blend (Grp III+/IV/V blend) synthetic.

Amsoil MCT 10W40 (JASO MA2) - more engine vibes than Mobil 1 and just as noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic

Shell Rotella T 15W40 HDEO (JASO MA2) - worst engine vibes of any oil so far + engine noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch. Conventional. Tried it because everyone raves about it, was not impressed upon use, drained prematurely to get rid of it.

Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (JASO MA2)- smooth quiet engine, clonky gearbox, smooth positive clutch. Full ester synthetic.


For those unfamiliar with the Ducati Testastretta engine, it is a 1198cc 90 degree twin, liquid cooled and oil cooled, DOHC 4 valves per cyl. Notorious for a fair amount of mechanical noise when running.
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3395039 - 06/11/14 06:24 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
jeffmc Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 31
Loc: charlotte nc
try this Castrol Power Racing RS. I have tested alot of oils but my Wing loves it.

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#3395122 - 06/11/14 08:27 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26228
Loc: Michigan
Sounds like you've tried just about all the major ones. How about Valvoline 4T 10w-40?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3395183 - 06/11/14 09:53 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 386
Loc: The Canyons
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
The clutch engages smooth yet positive and strong. No slippage under full throttle runs.



Oils tried and observations:

Factory fill 10W40 mineral oil - Smooth quiet engine, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch.

Spectro Platinum 4 Ultra 15W50 - moderate engine vibes but quiet, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic. Engine felt a little ball less at high rpm.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (JASO MA) - smooth but noisy engine, smooth gearbox, slightly grabby clutch. VISOM / PAO / Aklylated Naphthalene blend (Grp III+/IV/V blend) synthetic.

Amsoil MCT 10W40 (JASO MA2) - more engine vibes than Mobil 1 and just as noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth positive clutch. PAO / ester blend synthetic

Shell Rotella T 15W40 HDEO (JASO MA2) - worst engine vibes of any oil so far + engine noisy, smooth gearbox, smooth clutch. Conventional. Tried it because everyone raves about it, was not impressed upon use, drained prematurely to get rid of it.

Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (JASO MA2)- smooth quiet engine, clonky gearbox, smooth positive clutch. Full ester synthetic.


For those unfamiliar with the Ducati Testastretta engine, it is a 1198cc 90 degree twin, liquid cooled and oil cooled, DOHC 4 valves per cyl. Notorious for a fair amount of mechanical noise when running.


It sounds like you and your Duck like the factory fill best. So why not just run that?

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#3395215 - 06/11/14 10:28 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Online   content


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1527
Loc: Midwest
Rotella was the short run oil right before Silkolene. I wonder if there is any chance the residual Rotella (Grp II) is messing up the Silkolene (Grp V)? Thorough drain but there is always residual old oil left from cling and pooling. New OEM filter was used for the change.
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3395217 - 06/11/14 10:31 PM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26228
Loc: Michigan
What makes you think that Ester is the important ingredient here and not the add pack?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3395383 - 06/12/14 07:23 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
LoneRanger Online   content


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1527
Loc: Midwest
what in the additive package would make the shifting hard? Or lack of what?
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend 5W30)
'13 Ducati MTS .......... (Silkolene Pro 4 Ester 15W50)

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#3395391 - 06/12/14 07:36 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
RedVic Offline


Registered: 06/10/14
Posts: 13
Loc: Florida
I have a Victory Cross Country Tour and it has a Air/Oil cooled 1731cc V-twin that shares the engine oil with the transmission.

I use Redline 20w-50 in it and it shifts nice for the entire 5,000 mile oil change intervals the owners manual calls for.

Victory specs their engines for 20w-40 semi-synthetic oil but the Victory brand 20w-40 semi-synthetic is priced like a full synthetic and most who stick with it end up changing the Victory branded oil at 2,500 to 3,000 miles due to rough shifting developing.

I have had a total of three UOA's done on this engine while using the Redline 20w-50 and the Victory oil only crowd will tell you that you are going to blow up the engine because Victory designed it for 20w-40 and full synthetic will cause your clutch to slip, yet I have used full synthetic in this bike since first oil change that was done at 479 miles and have never had the clutch slip.

The UOA's all read fine with good numbers showing nothing unusual with wear.

I figure if I am going to pay full synthetic price for oil I might as well buy real full synthetic oil.

After all Victory oil being a semi-synthetic means it is mostly a group II oil with just enough Synthetic added to call it a semi-synthetic but they charge full synthetic prices for it and I just can't justify paying synthetic oil prices for what is really a group II oil with some synthetic added.

Victory is making money hand over fist as the vast majority of Victory owners on Victory forums have fallen for the myth that they must use only the Victory brand oil or they will blow up their engines or their clutch will slip.

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#3395471 - 06/12/14 09:17 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26228
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
what in the additive package would make the shifting hard? Or lack of what?

Friction modifiers, maybe?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3395485 - 06/12/14 09:25 AM Re: Ester oil conundrum - smooth engine / rough shifts [Re: LoneRanger]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1636
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
LR,
would you consider using a 20w50?
what about the Maxima or Motul lines?
_________________________
motorcycle oil myth buster

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