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#3393239 - 06/09/14 05:47 PM 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16938
Loc: Upstate NY
The continuing saga of my reman 4.0 engine. The engine runs fine, decent mileage, no smoke.

Polaris flagged the lead as abnormal (orange) and the oxidation critical (red).

(first to last)

Html:
Test#	1	2	3	4	5
Mileage	9622	5184	5606	5334	5679					
Iron 	146	43	26	28	55   
Chrom 	4	1	1	1	1   
Nickel	1	0	0	0	0   
Alum 	4	1	1	1	2   
Copper  23	12	16	20	24
Lead    15	8	4	3	47 
Tin     2	1	1	1	2
Cadmi   0	0	0	0	0	
Silv    0	0	0	0	0 
Vanad   0	0	0	0	0
Silicon 25	12	13	8	12 
Sodiu   18	6	6	9	15 
Potas   6	1	5	0	0 
Titan   0	1	0	0	0 
Moly    61	58	67	62      61
Antim   1	0	0	1	0 
Mang    2	0	0	0	0 
Lith    0	0	0	0	0
Boron   280	163	30	21	23	
Magn  	14	14	892	1041	1049	
Calc  	3611	2651	1008	814	737
Bari   	0	0	0	0	0
Phos	772	723	868	942	921  
Zinc  	923	864	1103	1189	1143
Fuel	<1	<1	2.2	2.0	<1
Soot	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1
Water	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1	<.1
[email protected]	11.1	10.2	12.9	13.3	13.5
TBN   	3.4	4.47	4.22	NES	4.13	
Oxi    	20	25	17	NES	30
Nit     16	12	13	NES	14  


Test#1 PU
Test#2 PU
Test#3 T6
Test#4 T6
Test#5 T6



Obviously the sharp jump in lead is a concern. Copper + lead = bearing failure.

Current change is PP (old formulation).




Edited by Donald (06/09/14 05:49 PM)
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#3393253 - 06/09/14 06:01 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
actionstan Offline


Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 488
Loc: Ohio
If its a reman, does it have a warranty? If so I might bring it up with the shop that did it/company that supplied the engine, just to see what they say. Those seem like high/inconsistent numbers, I would personally be a little worried.
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1999 Saturn SL1
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#3393259 - 06/09/14 06:06 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
NHGUY Offline


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 4629
Loc: USA
Factory rebuilt? Marshall engine?

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#3393260 - 06/09/14 06:07 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16938
Loc: Upstate NY
The reman engine has almost 60K miles on it. Way past the warranty I was given.

Should I consider any action? Even if I knew which bearing was failing what would I do?
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2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0- sold
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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#3393280 - 06/09/14 06:26 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 5121
Loc: In transit...
Tough question, what to do....T6 should be giving great wear but there's obviously something going on within the engine. You could always try replacing the bearings and see what happens.

Shot in the dark? I'd consider calling the reman company, and find out the specifications on the rebuild to insure they used the right sized bearings; if they were too thick, making the clearances too tight, then you might expect heavy wear, at least until they were back to "normal" clearances.
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Your oil's condition is pure speculation until you get an UOA.

13 F150 5.0, 50k mi - Schaeffer 9000
04 Wrangler 2.4, 198k mi - Amsoil SS 5w30


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#3393291 - 06/09/14 06:36 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 10813
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Switch to a 10w30 conventional like PYB and see that lead drop.
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#3393303 - 06/09/14 06:47 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Kuato]
actionstan Offline


Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 488
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Tough question, what to do....T6 should be giving great wear but there's obviously something going on within the engine. You could always try replacing the bearings and see what happens.

Shot in the dark? I'd consider calling the reman company, and find out the specifications on the rebuild to insure they used the right sized bearings; if they were too thick, making the clearances too tight, then you might expect heavy wear, at least until they were back to "normal" clearances.


If the bearings go back to "normal clearances" wouldn't they at that point be worn, along with the crank, and highly scuffed? I think that would then cause quicker wear, and eventually knocking because loss of oil pressure. The bearing and crank surfaces need to remain smooth.. if clearances were too tight.. I don't think this would be possible.
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#3393389 - 06/09/14 08:02 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 13886
Loc: apple valley, ca
bump it up to 15w40.lets see what that does
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#3393398 - 06/09/14 08:08 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
Eddie Online   happy


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 8116
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
Over reacting to one OCI. Check again after a 5-6K OCI.
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#3393423 - 06/09/14 08:35 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: 901Memphis]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16938
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Switch to a 10w30 conventional like PYB and see that lead drop.


This is the 3rd oil change with T6 and this is the first oil change where the lead really shot up.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0- sold
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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#3393427 - 06/09/14 08:36 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Kuato]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16938
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Tough question, what to do....T6 should be giving great wear but there's obviously something going on within the engine. You could always try replacing the bearings and see what happens.

Shot in the dark? I'd consider calling the reman company, and find out the specifications on the rebuild to insure they used the right sized bearings; if they were too thick, making the clearances too tight, then you might expect heavy wear, at least until they were back to "normal" clearances.


This was a reman not a rebuild. They would have turned the crank and used the proper bearings for a machined crank.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0- sold
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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#3393430 - 06/09/14 08:39 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16938
Loc: Upstate NY
So if the bearings get loose don't they start squirting more oil on the cylinder walls than the oil rings can handle.

Maybe thats only the rod bearings and a main bearing has the problem.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0- sold
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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#3393476 - 06/09/14 09:18 PM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: NHGUY]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16938
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Factory rebuilt? Marshall engine?


Yes a Marshall reman.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0- sold
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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#3393741 - 06/10/14 08:01 AM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 6684
Loc: Midwest
Sorry to see you haven't gotten this issue straightened out Donald. Will the engine manufacturer do anything about this? 60,000 miles is such a shame.

I second the 15w40 trial run, but either way I don't think any oil will make much of a difference.
_________________________
2003 Grand Cherokee 4.0 PYB 10w30/ TG16
2002 Volvo S60 2.4T M1 0w40/ Mahle ox149d


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#3393754 - 06/10/14 08:13 AM Re: 2001 Jeep GC 4.0 with Rotella T6 5679 miles [Re: Donald]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16938
Loc: Upstate NY
So can one assume its just one bearing? How easy would it be to find that bearing? If its a rod or main bearing could just the bearing be replaced or could the crankshaft have an issue which would require machining.
_________________________
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2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0- sold
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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