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#3387916 - 06/03/14 02:38 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Da Game Offline


Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 550
Loc: Chicago
I DO HAVE the manifold gauge set (hi & low) plus the shop manual the car. I talked to the service department to verify that the system takes 1.5lbs. The manual also states a pump that's 4 CFMs, I can buy one of those. Leave the pump on for 20-30min. I think that info and equipment should work for the DIY. What do you guys think in addition??


Edited by Da Game (06/03/14 02:45 PM)

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#3388038 - 06/03/14 06:11 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: earlyre]
yonyon Offline


Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 3492
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: earlyre


Those links make it sound like the first one has a fancy oil mixed in. The second says it has seal conditioner. A flush and new dryer should be enough do get rid of these and likely hasn't caused any additional damage to the car.

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#3388108 - 06/03/14 07:11 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 1547
Loc: Los Angeles, California
If it's leaking a lot, there is no point of recharging it before fixing the leak. There could also be some other problem. You might want to take it to an A/C shop. A/C jobs aren't meant for DIYers.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 257,000 M
Toyota (by ExxonMobil) SN/GF-5 0W-20 Synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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#3388394 - 06/04/14 05:41 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26336
Loc: a prison island
436 variant is working well for me at the present time.

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#3388998 - 06/04/14 06:50 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: earlyre]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 750
Loc: Florida /Texas


That 18 oz can is a lot, save the hose cause you can use it down the road. Generally if the system is just low and something hasn't totally failed, it will be more than adequate.

But your case it was totally blowing hot, so something should be definitely off, busted or broke.
Im sure the big dealerships will get you fixed up without any fuss.

I was going to get the tranny oil changed in my wifes rav 4 112,000 miles, and firestone wouldn't do it, too much risk for them with the mileage on there machine , even though the oil still looks good. So I have to eventually go to the dealer or AAMCO

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#3389030 - 06/04/14 07:32 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
tommygunn Offline


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 2551
Loc: usa
The long hose on the AC Pro can is great, especially if the charge port is located in a silly place (like under the fender in the Mk1 Focus).

The very first can of R134a you should buy should be that AC Pro can with the hose. It's a tall black can with a Bruce Springsteen knockoff on it who claims it was #1 rated coldest air.

Afterwards, just get the cheapest can you can find. The hose is reusable on every R134a can there is.

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#3389043 - 06/04/14 07:44 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: tommygunn]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6714
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
The long hose on the AC Pro can is great, especially if the charge port is located in a silly place (like under the fender in the Mk1 Focus).

The very first can of R134a you should buy should be that AC Pro can with the hose. It's a tall black can with a Bruce Springsteen knockoff on it who claims it was #1 rated coldest air.

Afterwards, just get the cheapest can you can find. The hose is reusable on every R134a can there is.

That is the type I have. Not long before I bought it, I used a plastic hose, got too close to the exhaust system, and melted the hose.

Anyway, yes, certain A/C additives can damage refrigerant machines. When my dad was having problems with his 1997 Lexus ES300, we tried recharging the system more than once, using cans of refrigerant that had additives. When he had the pros repair the system, he never got caught.
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#3389148 - 06/04/14 09:48 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: earlyre]
antiqueshell Offline


Registered: 03/02/12
Posts: 4004
Loc: chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted By: earlyre
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Chris142
R134a is the same regardless of brand. Dont use any with sealers or stop leak


Yup, it is all licensed by DuPont, the real name is DuPont Suva. Do not use anything with sealers, if you do and take it to a shop, you will be on the hook for the thousands in repairs to their equipment.


I understand what you are saying. But,the problem i have with that is in the case of a recently purchased used car.

Using a loosely modified version of My scenario as an example: I just bought this car in Jan.
If i had taken it in before adding anything, would tell them the truth, i added nothing.
so they hook it up, and their works gets all gummed up b/c the Previous owner, (unbeknownst to me) had dosed the system with stop leak.

Why should I be on the hook for equipment when I had no way of knowing the stuff was in the system?



If you bought a used car and you DO NOT know the history I would politely inform the shop that you do not know the history of the unit and they should be careful to check for the presence of a stop leak product, I am sure they have the proper detection tools to check BEFORE they hook up their expensive recovery machines and destroy them.....which leads me to the question....

WHY ARE THE AFTERMARKET MANUFACTURERS ALLOW TO MAKE 134a WITH POTENTIALLY DAMAGING ADDITIVES LIKE STOP LEAK IN THEM?

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#3389556 - 06/05/14 09:32 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: antiqueshell]
zzyzzx Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1615
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
WHY ARE THE AFTERMARKET MANUFACTURERS ALLOW TO MAKE 134a WITH POTENTIALLY DAMAGING ADDITIVES LIKE STOP LEAK IN THEM?


The ones that might swell the seals are harmless. It's the ones that can potentially fix a problem with metal are the ones you only want to use as a last resort on a beater.

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#3389652 - 06/05/14 11:19 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Gokhan]
Anduril Offline


Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 704
Loc: Perris, CA
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
You might want to take it to an A/C shop. A/C jobs aren't meant for DIYers.

Don't let people like this discourage you. He is probably in the AC industry, which is notorious for spreading fear, doubt, and even misinformation in order to prevent people from fixing their own a/c and to try and get them to pay someone to do it instead. I had people try to tell me the same thing, but recently finished replacing my wife's compressor, at a cost savings of about $400, even including the price of the tools I had to buy, over what a shop was going to charge me.

Doing a/c work can be a lengthy process, as there are some steps that should be taken every time the system is opened, regardless of the repair performed. First you will need to locate the leak. The easiest way is to add some refrigerant and UV dye and then drive until the a/c blows warm again. This will mean it has leaked out, and you can use a UV light to locate the dye at the source of the leak. Then replace the part that is leaking.

Even if it is not the source of the leak, you will need to replace the receiver/drier because it has been exposed to air. Install the new one as the last step prior to vacuum pumping the system, and do not remove the caps from the ports before this. You want as little air (and thus moisture) getting in it as possible.

While you are in there, I would check the orifice tube as well. It has a fine mesh screen that acts as a filter for the a/c system; replace it if it is dirty. If you want to be really thorough, go ahead and do a full flush on all the hoses, the evaporator, and condenser (I would recommend it if the orifice tube is dirty, otherwise you can probably get by without it). If you do this, though, you will need to add the proper amount of oil back into the system as you will have removed it all except what was in the compressor. Since you're replacing the receiver/drier anyways, you may need to add oil to the new one anyways (I did on the wife's car). Replace the o-rings on any connections you have opened for good measure (AutoZone sells a kit for about $4), put everything back together, and apply vacuum. Close off the system and make sure the vacuum holds to ensure there are no leaks. Fill with the proper amount of 134a which should be listed on a sticker somewhere in the engine bay, if not in your service manual.

Most of this should be covered in the service manual, and there are plenty of YouTube videos on vacuuming and flushing the system. In addition to your manifold gauges, you will need a vacuum pump and flush gun, both of which can be loaned from AutoZone.

Vacuum pumping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5w3lR88fqQ
Flushing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu8hA9F9S4

The evaporator and condenser will need to be flushed while they're still in the car unless you want to do a lot of extra work removing them. It will be messy, but use a rag to catch (most) of the solvent and oil that sprays out the other end. I still made a mess in the engine bay, but nothing a carwash and engine degreaser couldn't fix.


Edited by Anduril (06/05/14 11:24 AM)
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#3391082 - 06/06/14 09:06 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: antiqueshell]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6714
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

WHY ARE THE AFTERMARKET MANUFACTURERS ALLOW TO MAKE 134a WITH POTENTIALLY DAMAGING ADDITIVES LIKE STOP LEAK IN THEM?

A/C isn't the only place this happens. Just look at how many products are invented to stop engine oil leaks, antifreeze leaks, transmission slippage, and power steering leaks. Frequently in the coolant section, someone has to ask "How do I remove stop leak stuff because it is clogging up the radiator?" Isn't that similar to the attitudes that refrigerant makers have towards making risky stop leak additives?

Many people do this because their car is on death's door, and people try to get a few more miles from that car.
_________________________
2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback

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#3391172 - 06/06/14 11:12 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
antiqueshell Offline


Registered: 03/02/12
Posts: 4004
Loc: chicago, Illinois
The AC situation is quite different because the product damages the shop AC recovery machine, which involves an environmentally regulated product 134a. The other situations are not really the same. At least they should force the companies making the
stop leak added 134a to clearly print on the label that using it may permenantly damage their entire AC system, or damage a shop AC recovery machine which the user will be liable for.

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