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#3392600 - 06/08/14 10:07 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
Well, doesn't matter for now. Replaced the filter and went to torque on the cover nuts. Set my torque wrench to the 1.1 Kg-M specified, started wrenching...and the stud turned with the nut. Tried all four and the same thing. How does all four studs strip out? Improperly manufactured studs? Wrong size pilot hole? Factory stripped them out? Never leaked oil, either, cover and gasket were on tight and all four nuts came off with no problem. Bringing it in first thing in the morning.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3393237 - 06/09/14 05:44 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 353
Loc: Palmyra, PA
I had hoped that LML (the manufacturer in India that makes the Stella) improved their quality control/quality assurance; I had a 2009 Stella 2T that was plagued with multiple minor issues (electrical -- pinched wires, blown fuses, electrical components grounding out on body panels; leaks -- 2T oil & transmission oil) that had me feeling unsure of the reliability (I'm not extremely mechanically inclined & lack patience for repetitive problems)...I let it fly the coop to regain my sanity;

hope yours doesn't have continuous issues...
_________________________
2011 Jeep Liberty Sport (3.7L V-6), 2009 Suzuki GZ250 (249cc air-cooled single cylinder), 2006 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (745cc liquid-cooled v twin)

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#3393393 - 06/09/14 08:04 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
I actually have a nagging suspicion that it was the dealership when they prepped the scooter. I don't think LML ships them over with filters or oil, and the dealer definitely changed the oil before I picked it up, the drain plug and bottom of the crankcase was slick with oil. Other than this, I haven't had a problem with the bike, it seems to be good quality and the dealer seems to have prepped it well (other than the stripped studs) and they have a good reputation in the scooter industry. They are a Vespa/Piaggio, Genuine, and Kymco dealer, all three big brands. The 4T also, from what I've been reading has not had nearly as many issues as the 2T did. Also, many of the problems with the 2T could have been dealer related, the scooters are shipped in pieces to the dealer and they assemble them. New dealers or those unfamiliar with the Vespa/P/PX/Stella design. Many of the wiring/electrical problems were related to the routing of wiring, wires pinching or rubbing, etc...


Edited by NeuroticHapiSnak (06/09/14 08:14 PM)
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3394743 - 06/11/14 11:06 AM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
Cardenio327 Offline


Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 508
Loc: Oaxaca, Mexico
Originally Posted By: NeuroticHapiSnak
Well, doesn't matter for now. Replaced the filter and went to torque on the cover nuts. Set my torque wrench to the 1.1 Kg-M specified, started wrenching...and the stud turned with the nut. Tried all four and the same thing. How does all four studs strip out? Improperly manufactured studs? Wrong size pilot hole? Factory stripped them out? Never leaked oil, either, cover and gasket were on tight and all four nuts came off with no problem. Bringing it in first thing in the morning.


I'm a big proponent of the use of the torque wrench, BUT...

...on my Honda motorcycles I've learned that any fastener that is anywhere near aluminum must be tightened by feel. The torque specs in the repair manual are way too tight and will often result in stretching or stripping threads. I do torque all the suspension fasteners to spec with a torque wrench.
_________________________
'08 Honda C90ST Super Cub 5w-50 M1EP
'08 Honda NX4 Falcon 5w-50 M1EP
'09 Honda Fit LX 10w-30 QSUD
'99 F-150 W/T 4.2L 10w-30 QSUD

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#3394821 - 06/11/14 01:36 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 353
Loc: Palmyra, PA
good luck with the warranty repairs; have fun experimenting with different oils (part of the adventure of doing service/maintenance DIY); hope you get great service from your dealer and this is the only moderate/major issue that you encounter...
_________________________
2011 Jeep Liberty Sport (3.7L V-6), 2009 Suzuki GZ250 (249cc air-cooled single cylinder), 2006 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (745cc liquid-cooled v twin)

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#3396928 - 06/13/14 07:43 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
Update: I got sick of waiting and after reading the warranty certificate, realized they most likely will not cover it. So I went out and tried to get the nuts off of the studs. Two I got off with a little finagling, two refused to come off. Turns out the threads on the studs stripped where the nut threads on, not the threads in the crankcase. I managed to get the last two nuts off by dremeling and cracking them. Same thing, the threads on the studs stripped where the nut was. Have no idea how to get the studs out now to replace them. Service manager said they were threaded in, so they probably are red loctited in, so that means heat. Parts diagram doesn't show this are in detail so I have no idea. Replacing the studs would most likely require removing the clutch cover. Thinking of just bringing it in to the dealer to have them replace the stud, since I'm afraid of screwing something up.


Edited by NeuroticHapiSnak (06/13/14 07:45 PM)
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3396994 - 06/13/14 09:23 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 353
Loc: Palmyra, PA
this can get complicated...

parts might or might not be covered by warranty (the dealer should be able to get replacements under warranty since they technically are defective); the labor costs might be what bites you in the butt (this is usually a dealer's 'bread-n-butter' for making money)...Genuine wants the dealer to do the first service and I'm not sure what leeway your dealer has with covering labor under a warranty claim in this instance;

I've been in similar circumstances with doing my own detailed maintenance on firearms and getting in over my head...had to make the same call and let an expert handle the stuff beyond my abilities, so don't feel bad by coming to the same conclusion about taking the scooter to the dealer; I just hope they understand your intentions and somehow get the work done under warranty...

before I forget...here is a good source of info for you:

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/index.html

there is a section dedicated to the Stellas...


Edited by kmrcstintn (06/13/14 09:28 PM)
_________________________
2011 Jeep Liberty Sport (3.7L V-6), 2009 Suzuki GZ250 (249cc air-cooled single cylinder), 2006 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (745cc liquid-cooled v twin)

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#3397889 - 06/15/14 02:43 AM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
I got the studs out and replaced them without removing the clutch cover. It was a B, though. I had to use a pair of needle nose vise grips and turn out each stud a few degrees at a time. They were red loctited so I had to use a liberal amount of heat to dissolve the loctite and the vise grips didn't always bite into the stud. After a few hours, many hand cramps and break times later, I had the studs out. Putting the new ones on was a breeze. Still have the rear wheel off and the rear up on a piece of 2x4, waiting overnight to see if any oil leaks. Still considering bringing it to the dealer for the 500 mi service, since they know what best to look for and to have them look over my work.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3400262 - 06/18/14 01:06 AM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
Just measured the temp of the oil after a good run that included a 5 mile WOT highway jaunt just before home, 219.5*F. A couple other times I measured oil temp it was around 198*F I was expecting higher than that, that's probably what my car's oil temps are (the Yaris' normal operating coolant temp is 180-190*F, so I'd expect oil temps to be slightly higher). FYI, current fill is Resolute 20w50 "Race Oil", no weird noises, engine seems to run and the transmission shifts just as well on this as the Valvoline 20w50 MC I had in it before. I bought the Resolute because it was on sale for $1.99/qt and I wanted some oil in the sump while towing back and forth from the dealer, but didn't want to waste the M1 15w50 in case they had to drain it when the fixed it. Since I managed to fix it without opening the crankcase and I just wanted to ride without having to change oil first, I left it in.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3400733 - 06/18/14 04:29 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 353
Loc: Palmyra, PA
glad to hear the machine is back together and back on the road...

don't take this the wrong way...now that it's running, please let the dealer do the REAL 500-mile service; having receipts showing them doing the service should allow you to keep the warranty (and ask them to Red loctite the studs if you didn't do it already); ask them nicely if you can watch how to change the filter (they might have a 'trick' to break the seal of the cap nuts from the studs without the threads stripping)...

good luck and enjoy your machine! I miss the styling of my previous Stella and I might snag one down the road...


Edited by kmrcstintn (06/18/14 04:32 PM)
_________________________
2011 Jeep Liberty Sport (3.7L V-6), 2009 Suzuki GZ250 (249cc air-cooled single cylinder), 2006 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (745cc liquid-cooled v twin)

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#3401173 - 06/19/14 04:04 AM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
There are rumors of a Stella 200 coming in 2015, though no solid facts.

You know, had I not been set on the Stella, I might have bought a GZ250, I love those little Japanese standard bikes like the Honda CB.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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#3401438 - 06/19/14 11:40 AM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
endeavor to persevere Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 445
Loc: Middle Tennessee
According to the Magnuson-Moss warranty Act they cannot force you to let them do the first service in order to keep the warranty.

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.


In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.


While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.

Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.

http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/ftc/warranties/undermag.htm
_________________________








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#3401490 - 06/19/14 12:46 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 353
Loc: Palmyra, PA
Originally Posted By: NeuroticHapiSnak
There are rumors of a Stella 200 coming in 2015, though no solid facts.

You know, had I not been set on the Stella, I might have bought a GZ250, I love those little Japanese standard bikes like the Honda CB.


been in both corrals in the past...like the Stella styling, but not the 'hit or miss' reliability of the '09 Stella 2T I had; had a GZ250 for a short while in 2012...convinced myself that I wanted my scooter back, so the shop reversed the deal, kept $300, and I got my '09 Buddy 125 and most of my money back; lately I've been missing a 'small bike' and didn't find any Honda Rebel 250's or Yamaha V Stars or Virago 250's that I could afford at a local dealer (needed my '13 Buddy 125 as trade collateral to make the deal work) and found my latest GZ250; it lacks in some areas and shines in others...basically it is a small displacement bike that gets me from place to place with a more steady ride than a scooter with 10" wheels!
_________________________
2011 Jeep Liberty Sport (3.7L V-6), 2009 Suzuki GZ250 (249cc air-cooled single cylinder), 2006 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (745cc liquid-cooled v twin)

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#3404647 - 06/23/14 03:32 PM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
tc1446 Offline


Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 485
Loc: NC
Neuro: I think you're overworrying the oil thing. Rotella T 15-40 has been upgraded to MA2 and when WX gets cold go with Rotella T6 5-40...also MA2. Two hard to beat oils.
_________________________
'13 Accord EX-L
'00 Ford Ranger {46K}
'14 Can Am SE6 (13K)

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#3405187 - 06/24/14 03:56 AM Re: Oil for a Genuine Stella 4T [Re: NeuroticHapiSnak]
NeuroticHapiSnak Offline


Registered: 06/04/14
Posts: 40
Loc: Minnesota
I actually picked up 2 gallons of T5 15w-40 onsale for $12.99.

I was hoping this scooter wasn't too hard on oil but checking the oil today, the Resolute 20w50 seemed a little thin at room temp, it never dripped off the dipstick cold when it was new. Felt a little between my fingers and it felt more like the 5w30 I use in my car than the fresh 20w50s I've used. Maybe Resolute 20w50 just isn't very shear stable in a shared sump. Only 400mi on the oil, but it was only $2/qt, so I guess it won't be too much of a loss to dump it.


Edited by NeuroticHapiSnak (06/24/14 03:58 AM)
_________________________
2011 Toyota Yaris QSUD 5w30/Fram Ultra
2012 Genuine Stella 4T (Vespa P-series clone) Resolute 20w50/Hiflo Filtro

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