Really?

[gman2304]

Some here have problems with Harleys and they're owners...some have problems with sport bikes and they're owners, so what's one to do? Oh.....They could stay with they're scooters...or consider a Kymco!!!! Wait it's a scooter also....Hmmmm.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I forgot to add there's seemingly plenty of animosity between the so-called Metric Cruisers, and Sportbike riders too.

I hear the derogatory "Crotchrocket" term, regularly.

Why do otherwise seemingly grown men care so much about what others ride?


Crotchrocket is derogatory? Since when? I guess the crotchrocket riders didn't get the memo because even they call them crotchrockets...


All I can tell you is that none of the experienced, long-time Sportbike riders I know, or have talked to, like or use the term "crotchrocket". Maybe it's the newer, not-so-skilled sportbike riders that use that term, and as was also alluded to, are a menace to themselves and other road users.

At one time, the term "Squid" was widely used for that particular sub-set of Sportbike rider.

At any rate, my advice to any rider would be: Ride what you like, and don't worry about what others ride.

On that note, I think I'll go for a ride.

 

[Robenstein]

I have heard sportbike riders use the term crotch rocket for about 20 years very commonly and not in a derogatory. The idea is the forward riding position and speed of the machines are the origin of the term. To me it is no different than calling certain old street custom a "lead sled" because they are heavy and slow. People are so darned touchy anymore...jeez.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I have heard sportbike riders use the term crotch rocket for about 20 years very commonly and not in a derogatory. The idea is the forward riding position and speed of the machines are the origin of the term. To me it is no different than calling certain old street custom a "lead sled" because they are heavy and slow. People are so darned touchy anymore...jeez.



Ahh, it was a great ride this afternoon.

Ok, I'll concede that some might not use the term in a derogatory fashion. Yes, I do know why that type of bike acquired that sometimes-used term, having been riding that type of bike (amongst other types) since the late 80's.

I just get tired of the bashing between "Groups" of riders. This thread which includes bashing of Harley's as oil leakers, etc. is an example.

On my ride today, I was stopped at an overlook with my Sportbike, admiring the view. A guy on a Harley pulls up and asks if I'm having any problems. I told him no, that I was just enjoying the view and the day. We talked for the next 20 minutes about bikes we had owned.

He was a good guy, and an example of the brotherhood Motorcyclists should have for one another. Even when on machines that are the polar opposites of one another.

 

[29662]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Yep, a poor design that has been the top selling bike in the world for over 105 years. A "poor design" that has out lasted more "Superior" bike designs from just about every other bike maker out there. A poor designed bike, who's 20 year old models can sell for more then the completions bikes did new. And in case you didn't know, motorcycles run hot. They ALL do, not just Harley's. The rear cyl shutdown feature is for the riders benefit ,not the motorcycles. Because like we just learned ,they all run hot.,,


"Top Selling" Is that supposed to be a joke?! In 2013 Hardley sold 260,000 motorcycles worldwide. In that same time period Honda sold 15.5 million. That's almost a 60 to 1 ratio. And those numbers are straight from each companies annual fiscal reports. Try and get you facts straight.

Hardley's are an antiquated design with sub-par performance and sub-par reliability. Check Consumer Reports reliability ratings, they are perennially at or near the bottom of the list. That you and others have an affinity for them is besides the point. Most people buy a Hardley for the associated Poser culture that they represent. Weekend warriors, wannabe outlaws. lol...

The only thing about Hardley that is superior to any other bike manufacturer is their marketing dept... I'll give them kudos on that, every one else can take lessons, for sure.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I have heard sportbike riders use the term crotch rocket for about 20 years very commonly and not in a derogatory. The idea is the forward riding position and speed of the machines are the origin of the term. To me it is no different than calling certain old street custom a "lead sled" because they are heavy and slow. People are so darned touchy anymore...jeez.



Welcome to the world of PC...we must take every precaution not to offend anyone, even if it means not telling the truth...

 

[LC]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: 29662
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Yep, a poor design that has been the top selling bike in the world for over 105 years. A "poor design" that has out lasted more "Superior" bike designs from just about every other bike maker out there. A poor designed bike, who's 20 year old models can sell for more then the completions bikes did new. And in case you didn't know, motorcycles run hot. They ALL do, not just Harley's. The rear cyl shutdown feature is for the riders benefit ,not the motorcycles. Because like we just learned ,they all run hot.,,


"Top Selling" Is that supposed to be a joke?! In 2013 Hardley sold 260,000 motorcycles worldwide. In that same time period Honda sold 15.5 million. That's almost a 60 to 1 ratio. And those numbers are straight from each companies annual fiscal reports. Try and get you facts straight.

Hardley's are an antiquated design with sub-par performance and sub-par reliability. Check Consumer Reports reliability ratings, they are perennially at or near the bottom of the list. That you and others have an affinity for them is besides the point. Most people buy a Hardley for the associated Poser culture that they represent. Weekend warriors, wannabe outlaws. lol...

The only thing about Hardley that is superior to any other bike manufacturer is their marketing dept... I'll give them kudos on that, every one else can take lessons, for sure.

First, Let me help you out, it's spelled Harley. Honda also sold more jet skis and lawn mowers, and generators then Harley ever did. Whats does that mean?, nothing. Honda also has more motorcycle models that were built then dropped from production. Why? These were models that were supposed to be the latest and greatest bikes that ever hit the road. What happened? There are actual junkyards full of used unwanted Honda's. Funny you won't find one for Harley's. The difference is people actually WANT to own Harley's. That's why they spend more money on a proven design that stands the test of time. And when most are getting started riding motorcycles, they opt for the cheapest bike they can afford,Hondas fit the bill. And won't get that upset if the drop it a bunch of times. Then a few years down the road when the money is there, they buy the bike they "really want", a Harley. Honda may have sold more units but, Harley sold more big displacement motorcycles that sell for more money. That number has grown 25% last year.If anyone thinks Harley's aren't a force in the motorcycle world check out their stock price over Honda's.Honda 34.91, Harley's 70.26. Not too shabby for a "old antiquated design, low tech motorcycle". Now if you want to talk about posers, whats up with motorcycle riders dressed up like power rangers, like the show my kids used to watch? And bikes covered with stickers that look like a NASCAR race car? I guess that's what makes you look "cool" these days.,,

 

[Robenstein]

Stock price is not always a fair gauge of a company. I mean right before the American car makers Chrysler and GM needed a bailout to stay afloat they had decent stock prices but churned out less than great products for some time before the crash.

Harley has the biggest share of the domestic market. But other makers dominate in other markets where the high priced Harleys just cannot compete. I think that is why there will be new Harley 500 and 750cc bikes soon.

And remember something else, market share is not always a fair indicator of quality either. I mean the brit bikes were the popular go to bikes for a long time and lets all admit, despite being cool in their styling, they had horrible faults. The introduction of the 750cc Honda CB750 and the following designs put the Brits out of business and nearly did the same for Harley.

I think that if you look at bang for the buck, the metrics have Harley beat still on the dealer sales floor. But as long as there are people that love tons of chrome, engines that rumble to high heaven, and the image (albeit false) of an American made bike....Harley will stay in the black.

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Stock price is not always a fair gauge of a company.

So, if supply and demand are met, the company has little or no unsold stock at the end of the model year, repeat customers help keep the showroom floor busy, and the after sale parts business is strong,and your stock sells for more the twice of what Honda's does, tell me, what stock would you want to own?.,,

 

[gman2304]

Honda closed they're Marysville Ohio plant at the end of 2010 and moved the Goldwing production back to Japan for the 2012 model year...they're were no Goldwings built for the 2011 model year. In 1979 Chryslers stock price was $2.00 per share. By 1983 Chrysler had paid back the govt loan early at a 10% interest rate for a 300 million dollar profit for the govt. In March of 1987 Chryslers stock price was $52.00 per share. The metrics have Harley beaten on the sales floor as far as number of units sold because Harley chooses to let them have that market segment. Go ahead and buy the metric bike and 5 years down the road compare the used price with the same year Harleys and then you'll realize what "bang for the buck" really means.

 

[gman2304]

I'm 62 years old have two grown sons and 6 granddaughters. Yeah... I'm really concerned about image. I'll change my screen name to Spike later today.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
Honda closed they're Marysville Ohio plant at the end of 2010 and moved the Goldwing production back to Japan for the 2012 model year...they're were no Goldwings built for the 2011 model year. In 1979 Chryslers stock price was $2.00 per share. By 1983 Chrysler had paid back the govt loan early at a 10% interest rate for a 300 million dollar profit for the govt. In March of 1987 Chryslers stock price was $52.00 per share. The metrics have Harley beaten on the sales floor as far as number of units sold because Harley chooses to let them have that market segment. Go ahead and buy the metric bike and 5 years down the road compare the used price with the same year Harleys and then you'll realize what "bang for the buck" really means.


And we lost money on GM. And I know you are 62, and 87 might seem recent to you, but I was talking about the latest fiaso with the domestic auto makers.

Also someone showed via blue book value on here that a Yamaha V star lost less of its value in % for a competitive harley back here a year or so ago when someone made the harleys hold value argument. And I am saying you can get a lot of bike in the metric segment for about 9k, I know that is what I got my Triumph for (7,900 actually) and the only harley in that range was an 883 sportster that was slower and smaller and less comfortable. I am talking the price on the sales room floor for bang for the buck. Not everyone has 15 to 20k to throw on a bike.

I am just saying, HD does not walk on water. And no, the metrics win in certain areas cause Harley does not have the ability to compete. But that is okay, cause that is their choice. They know their bread and butter and stick with it. It is not a brand that walks on water.

 

[Robenstein]

Oh and BTW...Polaris current stock price is almost 2x Harley. So I guess Victory bikes are clearly superior.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: 29662
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Yep, a poor design that has been the top selling bike in the world for over 105 years. A "poor design" that has out lasted more "Superior" bike designs from just about every other bike maker out there. A poor designed bike, who's 20 year old models can sell for more then the completions bikes did new. And in case you didn't know, motorcycles run hot. They ALL do, not just Harley's. The rear cyl shutdown feature is for the riders benefit ,not the motorcycles. Because like we just learned ,they all run hot.,,


"Top Selling" Is that supposed to be a joke?! In 2013 Hardley sold 260,000 motorcycles worldwide. In that same time period Honda sold 15.5 million. That's almost a 60 to 1 ratio. And those numbers are straight from each companies annual fiscal reports. Try and get you facts straight.

Hardley's are an antiquated design with sub-par performance and sub-par reliability. Check Consumer Reports reliability ratings, they are perennially at or near the bottom of the list. That you and others have an affinity for them is besides the point. Most people buy a Hardley for the associated Poser culture that they represent. Weekend warriors, wannabe outlaws. lol...

The only thing about Hardley that is superior to any other bike manufacturer is their marketing dept... I'll give them kudos on that, every one else can take lessons, for sure.

First, Let me help you out, it's spelled Harley. Honda also sold more jet skis and lawn mowers, and generators then Harley ever did. Whats does that mean?, nothing. Honda also has more motorcycle models that were built then dropped from production. Why? These were models that were supposed to be the latest and greatest bikes that ever hit the road. What happened? There are actual junkyards full of used unwanted Honda's. Funny you won't find one for Harley's. The difference is people actually WANT to own Harley's. That's why they spend more money on a proven design that stands the test of time. And when most are getting started riding motorcycles, they opt for the cheapest bike they can afford,Hondas fit the bill. And won't get that upset if the drop it a bunch of times. Then a few years down the road when the money is there, they buy the bike they "really want", a Harley. Honda may have sold more units but, Harley sold more big displacement motorcycles that sell for more money. That number has grown 25% last year.If anyone thinks Harley's aren't a force in the motorcycle world check out their stock price over Honda's.Honda 34.91, Harley's 70.26. Not too shabby for a "old antiquated design, low tech motorcycle". Now if you want to talk about posers, whats up with motorcycle riders dressed up like power rangers, like the show my kids used to watch? And bikes covered with stickers that look like a NASCAR race car? I guess that's what makes you look "cool" these days.,,


I could have bought a Harley...there were plenty for less than I paid for my Burgman. But why buy something so outdated? Most I saw in the price range Ilooked at weren't even fuel injected!

And no, "all" motorcycles do not "run hot". Some , especially the air-cooled throwbacks, bake the rider in engine heat, many do not. (The Burgy's rider gets practically none.)

 

[gman2304]

I did a comparison several posts back about equivelant Electraglide vs Goldwing used values. The Harleys value was almost double the Goldwings...I suppose you ignored uh missed that. I know that Harleys can't 'walk on water'... I also know they weren't spewed forth from the bowels of [censored] like some on here believe.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Oh and BTW...Polaris current stock price is almost 2x Harley. So I guess Victory bikes are clearly superior.


They are superior...see the videos I posted earlier in the thread...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Honda closed they're Marysville Ohio plant at the end of 2010 and moved the Goldwing production back to Japan for the 2012 model year...they're were no Goldwings built for the 2011 model year. In 1979 Chryslers stock price was $2.00 per share. By 1983 Chrysler had paid back the govt loan early at a 10% interest rate for a 300 million dollar profit for the govt. In March of 1987 Chryslers stock price was $52.00 per share. The metrics have Harley beaten on the sales floor as far as number of units sold because Harley chooses to let them have that market segment. Go ahead and buy the metric bike and 5 years down the road compare the used price with the same year Harleys and then you'll realize what "bang for the buck" really means.


And we lost money on GM. And I know you are 62, and 87 might seem recent to you, but I was talking about the latest fiaso with the domestic auto makers.

Also someone showed via blue book value on here that a Yamaha V star lost less of its value in % for a competitive harley back here a year or so ago when someone made the harleys hold value argument. And I am saying you can get a lot of bike in the metric segment for about 9k, I know that is what I got my Triumph for (7,900 actually) and the only harley in that range was an 883 sportster that was slower and smaller and less comfortable. I am talking the price on the sales room floor for bang for the buck. Not everyone has 15 to 20k to throw on a bike.

I am just saying, HD does not walk on water. And no, the metrics win in certain areas cause Harley does not have the ability to compete. But that is okay, cause that is their choice. They know their bread and butter and stick with it. It is not a brand that walks on water.



V-star......

I bought my 06 v-star for 4 grand. Put 20000kms on it,and sold it for 4 grand.
Basically other than insurance and gas,and of course oil changes that bike didn't cost much to ride.
I'll never sell my Harley though so I dunno what I'd get if I tried to sell it.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
I did a comparison several posts back about equivelant Electraglide vs Goldwing used values. The Harleys value was almost double the Goldwings...I suppose you ignored uh missed that. I know that Harleys can't 'walk on water'... I also know they weren't spewed forth from the bowels of [censored] like some on here believe.


That is a gold wing, which is a different animal IMHO. I was comparing a v twin cruiser to a comparible v twin cruiser.

The V star less lost of its MSRP as a percentage than the HD. Cant remember which one it was, but I think it was a V Star 1300 and a HD Dyna of some sort.

I never said they are [censored] bikes, but HD is definitely a decent bike sold at a premium price and IMHO under false pretenses of being "Made in the USA". That is my problem...the price and the marketing.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: gman2304
I did a comparison several posts back about equivelant Electraglide vs Goldwing used values. The Harleys value was almost double the Goldwings...I suppose you ignored uh missed that. I know that Harleys can't 'walk on water'... I also know they weren't spewed forth from the bowels of [censored] like some on here believe.


That is a gold wing, which is a different animal IMHO. I was comparing a v twin cruiser to a comparible v twin cruiser.

The V star less lost of its MSRP as a percentage than the HD. Cant remember which one it was, but I think it was a V Star 1300 and a HD Dyna of some sort.

I never said they are [censored] bikes, but HD is definitely a decent bike sold at a premium price and IMHO under false pretenses of being "Made in the USA". That is my problem...the price and the marketing.


Iirc I saw the v-star 1300cc fuel injected model last year for 12k. After the initial hit on it they don't really sink too much more whereas Harley's don't lose much of their value at all,from what I've seen on a local level anyways.
I was offered 22k for my bike last year and almost said yes,but I can't replace it for that kind of money. I'd need closer to 30k.
Thinking back now I should have taken it. I'm rv shopping right now and 8k buys a beautiful rv,fairly new with actual toilets and kitchens.
But I doubt I'll ever sell it. I don't care if I only ride once a year. For that 1 ride its an absolute thrill that I can't get anywhere else.