BMW approved 0W-20 for N20 turbo four cyl.

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From the doc:



Doesn’t a viscosity of SAE 0W-20 automatically cause higher wear?

Contrary to the generally widespread opinion that a low (HTHS) viscosity leads to massive engine
wear, our TITAN GT1 EVO SAE 0W-20 could prove in several tests that this must not be the case
at all.
 
A 2.0L engine with Turbo Charged produces only 245 HP ?

15 years ago Honda S2000 made 240 HP from normally aspirated 2.0L engine with premium gas, but it needs conventional oil 10W30.
 
the N20 was a new engine design around 2011

It was designed for lower friction losses and use of lighter oil.
it makes anywhere from 160 to 240hp (IIRC)
 
Originally Posted By: EdwardC
The N20 also makes almost 260ft-lbs of torque. The F20/F22 makes 160ish ft-lbs?

And in addition, the bmw engine makes all of that torque at as little as 1250 rpm.

How much torque does the honda engine produce at 1250 rpm?

Two very different engine designs.
 
While it might seem that turbocharged engines place more force on the connecting rod bearings, that may not be the case at all. Consider that piston/pin/rod inertia at high RPM places the highest loads on the bearings. The combustion event is often quite a bit lower load. A turbocharged engine's combustion chamber tightly packed with air/fuel often has a slower burn rate, with peak loads quite similar to the normally aspirated versions. The Honda S2000 engine with it's 9000 RPM redline and very high piston speeds place very high inertial loads on the bearings. Contrast that with modern turbocharged/direct injected engines that often run out of torque in the mid 6000RPM range.
 
Comparing the BMW motor to the S2000 is hardly a fair comparison. Vastly different designs for different applications.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

15 years ago Honda S2000 made 240 HP from normally aspirated 2.0L engine with premium gas, but it needs conventional oil 10W30.

I would use the word "specified" in place of "needs" a dino 10W-30.
I'm sure there are synthetic 0W/5W-20s with HTHSV of 2.7-2.8cP that could easily maintain a sufficient hot operational viscosity for normal street use.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
It's LL-14 FE not LL-01 FE.
Must be a new spec.

Yes that was a typo on my part.
I suspect the addition of "4" to the nomenclature represents four cylinder.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I'll bet the BMEP across the complete RPM range in that BMW is much higher than that Honda would ever see.


Of course it is!!

But, BMEP is a calculated value. Only somewhat numerically related to peak cylinder pressure. As I mentioned above, many turbocharged engines have peak cylinder pressures, and therefore, peak bearing loads, that are not all that different from their normally aspirated variants.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I suspect the addition of "4" to the nomenclature represents four cylinder.

Historically, the numbers in a BMW spec related to the year in which a given spec was introduced, so 14 in this case would refer to 2014.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I suspect the addition of "4" to the nomenclature represents four cylinder.

Historically, the numbers in a BMW spec related to the year in which a given spec was introduced, so 14 in this case would refer to 2014.

Thanks QP, that makes more sense.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
While it might seem that turbocharged engines place more force on the connecting rod bearings, that may not be the case at all. Consider that piston/pin/rod inertia at high RPM places the highest loads on the bearings. The combustion event is often quite a bit lower load. A turbocharged engine's combustion chamber tightly packed with air/fuel often has a slower burn rate, with peak loads quite similar to the normally aspirated versions. The Honda S2000 engine with it's 9000 RPM redline and very high piston speeds place very high inertial loads on the bearings. Contrast that with modern turbocharged/direct injected engines that often run out of torque in the mid 6000RPM range.


Yes, pretty much. It depends on the engine, though. Peak bearing loads in a 4-stroke engine will occur at the top of the exhaust stroke, where the connecting rod will be in tension. At the top of the compression stroke, if firing load is greater than inertia load, the connecting rod will be in compression. The thing about very high operating speeds is that inertia loads increase with the square of the operating speed. So the Honda running at 9000 rpm will have 2.25 times the piston acceleration and therefore inertia load than it would at 6000 rpm.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
the N20 was a new engine design around 2011

It was designed for lower friction losses and use of lighter oil.
it makes anywhere from 160 to 240hp (IIRC)





Yes, this is an engine (and BMW approval) designed SPECIFICALLY for lower viscosity oils.

Originally Posted By: Fuchs

What is behind the BMW LONGLIFE-14 FE+?

In 2011 BMW developed a new 4-cylinder gasoline engine, called BMW N20. this 2.0L-engine (1997 cm3) with 245 hp is the successor of the N53 and N52 6-cylinder engines.

The new engine is a component of the Efficient Dynamics-concept. In the NEDC a fuel saving of 15% was achieved with the X1 xDrive28i with 7.9L/100Km.
Today the engine is used in the entire BMW model range with power output between 156-245hp.

To keep the measured fuel savings even after the oil change, the use of our TITAN GT1 EVO SAE 0W-20 according to BMW Longlife-14FE+ is necessary.


With respect to the quote that dparm mentioned, I'd hope that a low HTHS oil run in an engine designed for a low HTHS oil wouldn't lead to massive wear, LOL! I think that's a line designed to ease the nail biting of those who think that an oil of higher HTHS is REQUIRED to keep wear in check, which of course is not the case. It may be required in certain applications, but this isn't one of them. Engine design, control of oil temp....etc are key here and since BMW has a specific approval for this category, like they do with LL-04, LL-01...etc, one should have ZERO concerns running the LL-14 FE+ oils in applications that call for it.

Similar to Ford, Honda and Toyota applications that call for the same viscosity. The engines are designed for it, run what the OEM recommends/requires/approves. They will have done extensive testing to confirm that proper protection is maintained for all conditions potentially encountered.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
It's LL-14 FE not LL-01 FE.
Must be a new spec.

Yes that was a typo on my part.
I suspect the addition of "4" to the nomenclature represents four cylinder.


It would represent the year. LL-01 came out in '01, LL-98 came out for 1998....etc. So this spec is LL-14, so 2014.

EDIT:

Doh, QP beat me to it.
 
About 15 years since Honda introduced S2000 in 1999 nobody can match its performance even with current newer technologies.

To achieve north of 200 HP from a 2.0L 4-cyl engine, car manufactures have to employ either super charged or turbo charged.

Yes, a turbo charged engine does generate a lot more torque than a normally aspirated engine of the same size. That is a fact nobody can disputed. If Honda was to use either super or turbo charge in its S2000 engines, it probably can produce north of 300 HP and more than 250-260 lb-ft.

This is to show that Honda engine engineers know how to design a very powerful engine and very reliable too. At the same time no need for special oil to operate at 9,000 RPM, just conventional 10W30 with API SJ or SL or newer is sufficient.
 
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