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#3387697 - 06/03/14 09:34 AM Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Has anyone compared these two Fuel System Cleaners? I used to use Techron exclusively but then read that Red Line has a much higher PEA count and is much better.
I've recently started Liqui Moly additives in my oil and see that they also make a fuel system cleaner but I have not read too much info on the product. Has anyone used this and know if it is better than Red Line?
Here are links to the two products:

Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner
Liqui Moly 2007 Jectron Gasoline Fuel Injection Cleaner

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#3387715 - 06/03/14 09:53 AM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 625
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Has anyone compared these two Fuel System Cleaners? I used to use Techron exclusively but then read that Red Line has a much higher PEA count and is much better.
I've recently started Liqui Moly additives in my oil and see that they also make a fuel system cleaner but I have not read too much info on the product. Has anyone used this and know if it is better than Red Line?
Here are links to the two products:

Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner
Liqui Moly 2007 Jectron Gasoline Fuel Injection Cleaner

Here's the MSDS for Jectron. It does not appear to contain PEA. The principle ingredients are solvent naptha, napthalene and trimethylbenzine, which makes it similar in composition to STP gas treatment. Here's the manufacturer's web page. I've never used the product - not even sure where to buy it, except Amazon.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3387720 - 06/03/14 10:01 AM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Perfect. Thanks for that. I'll be sticking to Red Line then.
_________________________
'14 Subaru Impreza STI hatchback (Castrol 0w40 with '09+ Mazda RX8 Tokyo Roki oil filter )

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#3387769 - 06/03/14 10:54 AM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
Jteran5, best thing to do is alternate between the different PEA-rich products: Red Line SI-1, Techron Concentrate, Gumout Regane, and Amsoil PI.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
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#3387787 - 06/03/14 11:17 AM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9630
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Has anyone compared these two Fuel System Cleaners? I used to use Techron exclusively but then read that Red Line has a much higher PEA count and is much better.
I've recently started Liqui Moly additives in my oil and see that they also make a fuel system cleaner but I have not read too much info on the product. Has anyone used this and know if it is better than Red Line?
Here are links to the two products:

Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner
Liqui Moly 2007 Jectron Gasoline Fuel Injection Cleaner


The LM is nothing special go with the Redline SI-1.
This LM product (all their Pro Line is stuff is top shelf) is very good and on par or better, unfortunately i don't believe its available in the USA.

http://www.amazon.de/LM-5153-Pro-Line-Benzin-System-Reinigeer-500/dp/B001CZM7TO
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3387910 - 06/03/14 02:24 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8101
Loc: NorthEast
I have used that particular LM 2007 product and I was NOT impressed with it. I had tried both their fuel system cleaner and injector/valve cleaner. Sick with PEA cleaners such as Techron/Redline/Regane


Edited by Vikas (06/03/14 02:26 PM)

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#3387939 - 06/03/14 03:30 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 625
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Perfect. Thanks for that. I'll be sticking to Red Line then.

The fuel cleaners / additives seem to fall into at least two camps:

- Older additve formulations built around solvent naptha, napthalene, kerosene (jet fuel) and trimethylbenzine. STP gas treatment is in this camp, as is L-M Jectron. FWIW Marathon Petroleum decided to use STP as their fuel additive of choice at Marathon and Pilot stations. Perhaps they did this based on science or maybe it was marketing appeal.

- Newer additive products containing polyether amine (PEA) - Techron, Gumout Regane, Redline, et al. This was a Chevron thing - pretty much the basis for the Top Tier gasoline program. Chevron put a lot of money into all aspects of this program. They probably had some profit motive in mind.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3387985 - 06/03/14 04:46 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7209
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Walmart is carrying a prestone line of fuel additives right now that contain poly ether amine too,so it's not just techron or regane anymore.
They've got octane boost with pea as well. 2 different products that I've seen thus far.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3387994 - 06/03/14 04:56 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: dave5358]
y_p_w Offline


Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 2402
Loc: SF Bay Area
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Has anyone compared these two Fuel System Cleaners? I used to use Techron exclusively but then read that Red Line has a much higher PEA count and is much better.
I've recently started Liqui Moly additives in my oil and see that they also make a fuel system cleaner but I have not read too much info on the product. Has anyone used this and know if it is better than Red Line?
Here are links to the two products:

Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner
Liqui Moly 2007 Jectron Gasoline Fuel Injection Cleaner

Here's the MSDS for Jectron. It does not appear to contain PEA. The principle ingredients are solvent naptha, napthalene and trimethylbenzine, which makes it similar in composition to STP gas treatment. Here's the manufacturer's web page. I've never used the product - not even sure where to buy it, except Amazon.

A lot of active ingredients that aren't considered hazardous are left out since the marketer wants to protect them as "trade secrets". Here's what it says in the MSDS you linked:

Quote:
There are no additional ingredients present which, within the current knowledge of the supplier and in the concentrations applicable, are classified as hazardous to health or the environment and hence require reporting in this section.


Chevron often doesn't list PEA as an ingredient on the MSDS for its aftermarket treatments. The MSDS for Techron Concentrate Plus basically lists 4 different solvents, even though I'm pretty sure it contains PEA.

https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/MSDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=283264

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#3388006 - 06/03/14 05:21 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: y_p_w]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 625
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Has anyone compared these two Fuel System Cleaners? I used to use Techron exclusively but then read that Red Line has a much higher PEA count and is much better.
I've recently started Liqui Moly additives in my oil and see that they also make a fuel system cleaner but I have not read too much info on the product. Has anyone used this and know if it is better than Red Line?
Here are links to the two products:

Red Line (60103) Complete SI-1 Fuel System Cleaner
Liqui Moly 2007 Jectron Gasoline Fuel Injection Cleaner

Here's the MSDS for Jectron. It does not appear to contain PEA. The principle ingredients are solvent naptha, napthalene and trimethylbenzine, which makes it similar in composition to STP gas treatment. Here's the manufacturer's web page. I've never used the product - not even sure where to buy it, except Amazon.

A lot of active ingredients that aren't considered hazardous are left out since the marketer wants to protect them as "trade secrets". Here's what it says in the MSDS you linked:

Quote:
There are no additional ingredients present which, within the current knowledge of the supplier and in the concentrations applicable, are classified as hazardous to health or the environment and hence require reporting in this section.


Chevron often doesn't list PEA as an ingredient on the MSDS for its aftermarket treatments. The MSDS for Techron Concentrate Plus basically lists 4 different solvents, even though I'm pretty sure it contains PEA.

https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/MSDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=283264

Okay, no argument from me. But what you have said pretty clearly shows that companies only reveal what they want you to know. Like you, I'm pretty sure that Techron contains PEA.

The MSDS sheets are one source of information. Manufacturer's websites are another source. Or, search BITOG messages. Occasionally someone posts a good analysis of the ingredients in a product.

From the manufacturer's perspective, consumer ignorance is bliss. That's what marketing is all about.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3388033 - 06/03/14 06:05 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: dave5358]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 625
Loc: North Bend
Still in this vein: Here is the MSDS for

Gumout Regane: 30-40% PEA, 60-70% Kerosene.

Redline SL-1: 30-50% PEA, 5-20% Naptha.

Star*Tron Auto Gasoline Additive: 95% solvent Naptha, less than 5% proprietary organic compounds

BG 44K: Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light 15 - 40%, Mineral Spirits 15 - 40%.

SeaFoam: Pale Oil 40-60%, Naphtha 25-35%, IPA 10% (probably just isopropanol alcohol - said to be an octane booster, but most gasoline already has 10%)

I could go on and on but this is getting boring. I was still puzzled on PEA in Techron. Several companies specifically listed PEA as a hazardous ingredient. So, how does Techron get away with not listing it? Is Techron's PEA not hazardous? From another BITOG thread:

Originally Posted By: volk06
I use to use Techron Concentrate Plus due to the 50% PEA content. On the new MSDS for Techron Concentrate Plus, it has no mention of PEA. Does Techron Concentrate Plus still have PEA in it and if so what percentage?

Thank you.

Response:


Thank you for contacting Chevron Consumer Connection Center regarding your inquiry about Techron Concentrate Plus. We have forwarded your email to Fueltek for review and they will respond to you with the information you need. If you want to follow-up or speak directly with our product engineers, you may contact fueltek at 1-510-242-5357. They are readily available to assist you with your concern.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us. We appreciate the opportunity you have given us to respond.

Sincerely,
Angelo Manguray
Consumer Connection Specialist
Consumer Connection Center
Chevron Products Company


After this I called the fueltek line and asked them about the PEA. They guy on the other end was extremely helpful. I asked him if techron still has PEA in it, his response was: The main component in techron, is PEA, techron is chevron's trade name for PEA. He could not tell me the concentration % due to legal and trade secrets but he could say that the concentration CAN NOT be beat by any other product available today and they did not reduce the amount of PEA in it. He said they also boast no other PEA cleaner on the market can beat techron when it comes to cleaning.

I already knew this but he said the msds is a safety data sheet and is not meant to be used for any product specification.

He should have said the MSDS was not meant to be used for any product information ;-)

One other thing struck me: Think about the price of a bottle of additive. Then, think about the cost of the ingredients. Mineral spirits? Naptha? Pale oil? No wonder there are so many additives on the market - they're about 99.99867% pure profit. The bottle costs far more than the contents.

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#3388102 - 06/03/14 07:07 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: dave5358]
y_p_w Offline


Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 2402
Loc: SF Bay Area
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Still in this vein: Here is the MSDS for

Gumout Regane: 30-40% PEA, 60-70% Kerosene.

Redline SL-1: 30-50% PEA, 5-20% Naptha.

Star*Tron Auto Gasoline Additive: 95% solvent Naptha, less than 5% proprietary organic compounds

BG 44K: Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light 15 - 40%, Mineral Spirits 15 - 40%.

SeaFoam: Pale Oil 40-60%, Naphtha 25-35%, IPA 10% (probably just isopropanol alcohol - said to be an octane booster, but most gasoline already has 10%)

I could go on and on but this is getting boring. I was still puzzled on PEA in Techron. Several companies specifically listed PEA as a hazardous ingredient. So, how does Techron get away with not listing it? Is Techron's PEA not hazardous? From another BITOG thread:

Originally Posted By: volk06
I use to use Techron Concentrate Plus due to the 50% PEA content. On the new MSDS for Techron Concentrate Plus, it has no mention of PEA. Does Techron Concentrate Plus still have PEA in it and if so what percentage?

Thank you.

Response:


Thank you for contacting Chevron Consumer Connection Center regarding your inquiry about Techron Concentrate Plus. We have forwarded your email to Fueltek for review and they will respond to you with the information you need. If you want to follow-up or speak directly with our product engineers, you may contact fueltek at 1-510-242-5357. They are readily available to assist you with your concern.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us. We appreciate the opportunity you have given us to respond.

Sincerely,
Angelo Manguray
Consumer Connection Specialist
Consumer Connection Center
Chevron Products Company


After this I called the fueltek line and asked them about the PEA. They guy on the other end was extremely helpful. I asked him if techron still has PEA in it, his response was: The main component in techron, is PEA, techron is chevron's trade name for PEA. He could not tell me the concentration % due to legal and trade secrets but he could say that the concentration CAN NOT be beat by any other product available today and they did not reduce the amount of PEA in it. He said they also boast no other PEA cleaner on the market can beat techron when it comes to cleaning.

I already knew this but he said the msds is a safety data sheet and is not meant to be used for any product specification.

He should have said the MSDS was not meant to be used for any product information ;-)

One other thing struck me: Think about the price of a bottle of additive. Then, think about the cost of the ingredients. Mineral spirits? Naptha? Pale oil? No wonder there are so many additives on the market - they're about 99.99867% pure profit. The bottle costs far more than the contents.

I don't think they list PEA as a hazardous ingredient. There's no requirement that the listing of ingredients can't include components that are generally recognized as safe. This company has an MSDS for water (CAS# 7732-18-5):

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927321

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#3388353 - 06/04/14 12:48 AM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Clevy]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11357
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Walmart is carrying a prestone line of fuel additives right now that contain poly ether amine too,so it's not just techron or regane anymore.

Next time you're at Canadian Tire, check the labeling on the Formula 1 fuel system cleaners. The latest one has PEA in it, too.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3388376 - 06/04/14 03:32 AM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
mauric3 Offline


Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 147
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
How about Royal Purple max clean fuel system cleaner?

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#3388726 - 06/04/14 01:44 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Garak]
richport29 Offline


Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 259
Loc: Ontario
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Walmart is carrying a prestone line of fuel additives right now that contain poly ether amine too,so it's not just techron or regane anymore.

Next time you're at Canadian Tire, check the labeling on the Formula 1 fuel system cleaners. The latest one has PEA in it, too.


Any idea what percentage of PEA it has?

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#3388757 - 06/04/14 02:12 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: richport29]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 625
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: richport29
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Walmart is carrying a prestone line of fuel additives right now that contain poly ether amine too,so it's not just techron or regane anymore.

Next time you're at Canadian Tire, check the labeling on the Formula 1 fuel system cleaners. The latest one has PEA in it, too.


Any idea what percentage of PEA it has?

According to Q&A on CanadianTire's site for product "MotoMaster F1 Ultra Fuel System Treatment, 350 mLit's" the PEA is 10-30% per the MSDS. I couldn't find the MSDS, but it might be there somewhere. CanadianTire's site is a pain to navigate.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3389150 - 06/04/14 09:49 PM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: Jteran5]
wing0 Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 113
Loc: Toronto, ON
Pdf shows 10-30%
Go here and search for 38-0752-2
msds.canadiantire.ca/search.asp

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#3389326 - 06/05/14 03:19 AM Re: Red Line SI-1 vs Liqui Moly 2007 System Cleaner [Re: richport29]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11357
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: richport29
Any idea what percentage of PEA it has?

Thanks to Dave for checking the site, which is, I agree, a pain. I don't recall if the bottle mentioned concentration, and they're changing designs on top of all that.

It's just another option for us. The regular price on the product isn't that attractive, but sometimes they have some pretty impressive sales on it, just like they do with Regane on occasion.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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