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#3387306 - 06/02/14 08:09 PM Recommend R134a refridgerant
Da Game Offline


Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 550
Loc: Chicago
I'm preparing to service my AC unit in the wifes car. I need you guys opinion, what is the better brand of R134a Syn or other wise out there? The AC was blowing hot Sunday so just tring to stay ahead of the heat. Oh, I have to buy the AC manifold Guage set, no one rents them out.

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#3387322 - 06/02/14 08:21 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13196
Loc: Upstate NY
First why does it need service? Its a closed system.

You need a manifold gauge set, an A/C duct temp probe (cheap) and some plain R134a from NAPA. No "stop leak" added to the R134a.

If the system is low on R134a then there is a leak. The best solution is to find the leak and repair/replace what is leaking. Then evacuate the system, verify it holds a vacuum and refill with the exact weight of R134a as listed on a hood sticker.

Also the manifold gauge set should be purged of air before the valves are opened.

I would dump in one can of R134a and see if it helps the cooling. If it does not, bring it somewhere.

There is some knowledge that is needed to work on a car's A/C. And some expensive tools.
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3387328 - 06/02/14 08:28 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 11084
Loc: apple valley, ca
R134a is the same regardless of brand. Dont use any with sealers or stop leak
_________________________
02 Jeep Wrangler super-s 10/30
87 F250 Diesel Delo 15w40
04 Tahoe STHM 10w30
Z400 napa 15w50
KLR250 Maxima 10w40
Polaris Trailblazer delo 5w40

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#3387332 - 06/02/14 08:34 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 726
Loc: Florida /Texas
Auto zone carries a charge kit, one large can with valve meter unit included, for about $35.

also has instructions, the key thing is to make sure the compressor is cycling, or you wont get good readings. compressor on full cold with internal recycle button also pushed.

More than likely you have a leak, so its a $35 gamble to see any benefit, but that's the whole package , if you get no result, you'll just have to take it to the shop..


Edited by Mackelroy (06/02/14 08:36 PM)

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#3387345 - 06/02/14 09:02 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 6269
Loc: beaver land EH?
+1 with what Donald and Chris142 said.

DO NOT! I repeat: DO NOT tempt fate (if you don't know how to service A/C systems properly) with those A/C in a can with leak sealers in it.

Most A/C shops use A/C refrigerant recovery systems which, if sealer is present in the customer's car, will ruin their machines, costing hundreds, if not thousands of dollars of damage (which would require downtime to service the machine).

If they find you lied about having sealers in your systems, you are in a very interesting "surprise".

Proper A/C servicing requires vacuum pull-down and hold for at least 30mins or more. Injection of A/C oil dye to aid with the diagnosis of A/C leaks is the proper way to do it.

Bottomline: you don't know how to do it, or if you don't have proper machine (or even the gauge set + vacuum pump) to deal with it, don't do it.

Q.
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#3387346 - 06/02/14 09:03 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6572
Loc: Florida
I am used to seeing cars simply lose refrigerant gradually. I have successfully saved 3 cars in my family through adding refrigerant from cans.

In the past, my father was able to do the same thing. He had a 1979 Toyota and 1987 Hyundai Excel that could be made to blow cold by adding refrigerant every few years. Mom's 1985 Nissan Maxima was a different story, that car suffered from a bad air conditioning design, and suffered compressor and condenser failures more than once.

Use only R-134a that has no sealants or additives that say they improve performance. Also, you don't need one that adds oil, because PAG refrigerant oil tends not to leak out unless a major failure happens. The only additive that your can of R-134a can have is leak detection dye.
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#3387354 - 06/02/14 09:13 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: artificialist]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13196
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: artificialist
I am used to seeing cars simply lose refrigerant gradually. I have successfully saved 3 cars in my family through adding refrigerant from cans.

In the past, my father was able to do the same thing. He had a 1979 Toyota and 1987 Hyundai Excel that could be made to blow cold by adding refrigerant every few years. Mom's 1985 Nissan Maxima was a different story, that car suffered from a bad air conditioning design, and suffered compressor and condenser failures more than once.

Use only R-134a that has no sealants or additives that say they improve performance. Also, you don't need one that adds oil, because PAG refrigerant oil tends not to leak out unless a major failure happens. The only additive that your can of R-134a can have is leak detection dye.


They probably have o-rings that are slowly leaking. Thats why I suggested to add one can and see if it helps. Don't add a second can whether it helps or not.

I know they sell cheapo kits with a gauge for the low side and a can of R134a. You really need the high pressure gauge also.

If you do not have a manifold gauge set + vacuum pump then its doubtful you have the knowledge to do it properly.
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#3387417 - 06/02/14 10:23 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
bvance554 Offline


Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 839
Loc: VA
OP did you say R134 Syn or otherwise? If you're looking for synthetic R134 i can help you out. I have a stash in my basement that I accumulated before the synthetic version was banned. It is the best, but it will cost ya!

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#3387443 - 06/02/14 10:39 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Chris142]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6347
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: Chris142
R134a is the same regardless of brand. Dont use any with sealers or stop leak


Yup, it is all licensed by DuPont, the real name is DuPont Suva. Do not use anything with sealers, if you do and take it to a shop, you will be on the hook for the thousands in repairs to their equipment.
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#3387539 - 06/03/14 01:13 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: bdcardinal]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 2067
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Chris142
R134a is the same regardless of brand. Dont use any with sealers or stop leak


Yup, it is all licensed by DuPont, the real name is DuPont Suva. Do not use anything with sealers, if you do and take it to a shop, you will be on the hook for the thousands in repairs to their equipment.


ok... I obviously have a leak in mine(low side was only reading 10psi when i started), and i did what everyone is saying NOT to do.(2 cans-18&12oz, both with stop leak, using the included low side only gauge/hose) I have a appointment @ the Ford dealership this friday to have them check out the system.

so what do they do if some one tells them they DID use a stop leak product? am i just SOL?, Do i get to pay for an entire new A/C kit for my Sable? (iirc ~$1000) or do they have a different system to handle the Contaminated systems of us "helpful Idiots" in the Gen. Populace?
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : Meijer(Warren)Full Syn 5w20, FL400s
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : FrankenBrew, PL14476

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#3387551 - 06/03/14 02:27 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
yonyon Offline


Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 3492
Loc: NJ, USA
Bring the can of junk to the shop with you so they know what you put in there.

If the stop leak is just a seal conditioner, a solvent flush and a new dryer will take care of the problem. This won't cost too much.

If a glue-type stop-leak was used it will be necessary to replace the orifice tube and leave the system open to air for a while so the glue can set up inside your car rather than the recycler. An inline filter may be installed to keep the compressor from self-destructing. The condenser and evaporator will likely be damaged as well, but still usable if you're willing to accept reduced cooling efficiency.

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#3387667 - 06/03/14 08:45 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 11084
Loc: apple valley, ca
I just bought a $520 filter that traps stop leak before it can get into my machine
_________________________
02 Jeep Wrangler super-s 10/30
87 F250 Diesel Delo 15w40
04 Tahoe STHM 10w30
Z400 napa 15w50
KLR250 Maxima 10w40
Polaris Trailblazer delo 5w40

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#3387695 - 06/03/14 09:33 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: Da Game]
zzyzzx Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1563
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Brand of r134a does not matter. As per everyone else, buy the stuff that's just plain r134a with no additives. If you need to add things like dye or oil, you can do that yourself just the same, and at least that way, you are adding the right grade of oil.

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#3387790 - 06/03/14 11:18 AM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: yonyon]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 2067
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Bring the can of junk to the shop with you so they know what you put in there.

If the stop leak is just a seal conditioner, a solvent flush and a new dryer will take care of the problem. This won't cost too much.

If a glue-type stop-leak was used it will be necessary to replace the orifice tube and leave the system open to air for a while so the glue can set up inside your car rather than the recycler. An inline filter may be installed to keep the compressor from self-destructing. The condenser and evaporator will likely be damaged as well, but still usable if you're willing to accept reduced cooling efficiency.


thanks for being debbie downer...
those cans hit the landfill about 2 weeks ago...
but they were these:
http://idqusa.com/product/345_r-134asubzerosyntheticautoacrechargekit

http://idqusa.com/product/acp-105-ac-pro-advanced-stop-leak-professional-formula-r-134a-refrigerant

since i don't have the actual cans, would printing out the MSDS's do anything for the dealership?


Edited by earlyre (06/03/14 11:22 AM)
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : Meijer(Warren)Full Syn 5w20, FL400s
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : FrankenBrew, PL14476

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#3387864 - 06/03/14 12:52 PM Re: Recommend R134a refridgerant [Re: bdcardinal]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 2067
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Chris142
R134a is the same regardless of brand. Dont use any with sealers or stop leak


Yup, it is all licensed by DuPont, the real name is DuPont Suva. Do not use anything with sealers, if you do and take it to a shop, you will be on the hook for the thousands in repairs to their equipment.


I understand what you are saying. But,the problem i have with that is in the case of a recently purchased used car.

Using a loosely modified version of My scenario as an example: I just bought this car in Jan.
If i had taken it in before adding anything, would tell them the truth, i added nothing.
so they hook it up, and their works gets all gummed up b/c the Previous owner, (unbeknownst to me) had dosed the system with stop leak.

Why should I be on the hook for equipment when I had no way of knowing the stuff was in the system?


Edited by earlyre (06/03/14 12:56 PM)
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : Meijer(Warren)Full Syn 5w20, FL400s
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : FrankenBrew, PL14476

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