0w20 advice needed for Subaru FB25
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Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
So I've been doing a lot of searches on the site and the one thing I can see is that no one agrees on anything. I guess my best bet is to run what ever dino is on sale at 5k Oci?
No, just no. I'm not sure what the OP's issue is.
Read your owner's manual. It will tell you to use 0w20 and change no later than 7.5 months or 7500 miles, whichever comes first.
ANY API SN 0w20 can do that just fine.
Now go do that as long as you're under warranty.
/thread.
So I've been doing a lot of searches on the site and the one thing I can see is that no one agrees on anything. I guess my best bet is to run what ever dino is on sale at 5k Oci?
No, just no. I'm not sure what the OP's issue is.
Read your owner's manual. It will tell you to use 0w20 and change no later than 7.5 months or 7500 miles, whichever comes first.
ANY API SN 0w20 can do that just fine.
Now go do that as long as you're under warranty.
/thread.
If you're putting 35K a year on your car, I think it's probably reasonable to assume that the engine sees mainly highway miles.
Even if it doesn't, its only cold start is probably the first one of each working day.
That being the case, 7.5K drains on any API SN 0W-20 should be no problem.
There are a couple of blends in this grade, but the only oils you're likely to see in common distribution are of mostly Grp III basestocks.
Even if it doesn't, its only cold start is probably the first one of each working day.
That being the case, 7.5K drains on any API SN 0W-20 should be no problem.
There are a couple of blends in this grade, but the only oils you're likely to see in common distribution are of mostly Grp III basestocks.
Originally Posted By: webfors
Do the new manuals include the same language with respect to using various viscosities?
Not exactly. 5W-30 or 5W-40 conventional is allowed for replenishment only.
See page 5 of this pdf:
http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/75038/pdf/ownerManual/075038_2014_Legacy/MSA5M1404ASTIS_18.pdf
Although, apparently most dealerships don't even realize the language requiring thicker viscosities is still there.
http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/75038/pdf/ownerManual/075038_2014_Legacy/MSA5M1404ASTIS_17.pdf
Not sure of the page since I can't get into it for some reason. It's the same language as in the older models about thinner oils being best for fuel economy and thicker oils being require in high tempuratures.
-Dennis
Do the new manuals include the same language with respect to using various viscosities?
Not exactly. 5W-30 or 5W-40 conventional is allowed for replenishment only.
See page 5 of this pdf:
http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/75038/pdf/ownerManual/075038_2014_Legacy/MSA5M1404ASTIS_18.pdf
Although, apparently most dealerships don't even realize the language requiring thicker viscosities is still there.
http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/75038/pdf/ownerManual/075038_2014_Legacy/MSA5M1404ASTIS_17.pdf
Not sure of the page since I can't get into it for some reason. It's the same language as in the older models about thinner oils being best for fuel economy and thicker oils being require in high tempuratures.
-Dennis
Dennis,
the language has been toned down a bit, no mention of 20w50 being acceptable like in my 2008 manual:
"NOTE
Engine oil viscosity (thickness) affects
fuel economy. Oils of lower viscosity
provide better fuel economy. However,
in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is
required to properly lubricate the en-
gine."
In their own words, in their manual, they are stating that 0w20 is primarily for fuel efficiency and that higher viscosity is needed in 'hot weather' to properly lubricate the engine. Hot is a relative term LOL... it's hot now in Canada now that winter is over
the language has been toned down a bit, no mention of 20w50 being acceptable like in my 2008 manual:
"NOTE
Engine oil viscosity (thickness) affects
fuel economy. Oils of lower viscosity
provide better fuel economy. However,
in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is
required to properly lubricate the en-
gine."
In their own words, in their manual, they are stating that 0w20 is primarily for fuel efficiency and that higher viscosity is needed in 'hot weather' to properly lubricate the engine. Hot is a relative term LOL... it's hot now in Canada now that winter is over
I was honestly considering doing a 10k obi with M1EP 0w20 and getting a OA done to see where I stand. That would be super convenient to go every 10k!
Here we go just for completeness:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nzwgj3cswwkd2r/Subaru_2014_oil_language.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nzwgj3cswwkd2r/Subaru_2014_oil_language.JPG
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Running conventional is not an option! Read your manual! You have to run synthetic 0w20. You can pick any major brand. Buy OEM filters or Wix 57055 for the correct PSI rating.
SUBARU specs synthetic so they can market an "extended" OCI, and claim "LOWER" maintenance costs... however, it seems that SOMETHING has made them reconsider...! ( fuel dilution, and oil consumption are issues...)
SUBARU specs 0w20 purely for fuel economy, with "adequate... maybe..." durability. My 2011 Impreza specs 5w30, or if warmer 10w40 , and if heavy duty use... ? even 20w50. Yes, i understand this is the last gen. engine, but it is only very recently that manufacturers have stopped listing various grades for diff. temps.
SUBARU specs a higher oil filter by-pass pressure to protect the turbo from too much "by-passed" oil, and possible contaminants etc...and turbo failure... note: TURBO engines...
So... run a conventional if you want, just keep the intervals reasonable, but 5000 miles should be just fine given the driving conditions. Or use any brand name 20 grade synthetic, but watch the intervals...or use a 30 grade for a little safety net in case of oil thinning thru fuel dilution...
Your engine won't care if the oil is synthetic, conventional, 20/30/40 grade, brand name or anything else... as long as it is reasonably fresh.
Your engine will care if you extend the OCI too far out without being sure the oil is holding up. Under warranty, stick to manufacturer specs AT MINIMUM! for OCI.
Running conventional is not an option! Read your manual! You have to run synthetic 0w20. You can pick any major brand. Buy OEM filters or Wix 57055 for the correct PSI rating.
SUBARU specs synthetic so they can market an "extended" OCI, and claim "LOWER" maintenance costs... however, it seems that SOMETHING has made them reconsider...! ( fuel dilution, and oil consumption are issues...)
SUBARU specs 0w20 purely for fuel economy, with "adequate... maybe..." durability. My 2011 Impreza specs 5w30, or if warmer 10w40 , and if heavy duty use... ? even 20w50. Yes, i understand this is the last gen. engine, but it is only very recently that manufacturers have stopped listing various grades for diff. temps.
SUBARU specs a higher oil filter by-pass pressure to protect the turbo from too much "by-passed" oil, and possible contaminants etc...and turbo failure... note: TURBO engines...
So... run a conventional if you want, just keep the intervals reasonable, but 5000 miles should be just fine given the driving conditions. Or use any brand name 20 grade synthetic, but watch the intervals...or use a 30 grade for a little safety net in case of oil thinning thru fuel dilution...
Your engine won't care if the oil is synthetic, conventional, 20/30/40 grade, brand name or anything else... as long as it is reasonably fresh.
Your engine will care if you extend the OCI too far out without being sure the oil is holding up. Under warranty, stick to manufacturer specs AT MINIMUM! for OCI.
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We have used both Mobil 1 0w-20 AFE and PP 0w-20 (with OEM filter) in our '13 Outback with FB25. No oil consumption with either, both equally quiet, and both available at Wal-mart or Meijer for $15-$25, depending on coupon. 7500 mi OCI. Mobil also makes 0w-20 EP which appears to be similar to the AFE formulation,but with more additives, and also available at Wal-mart.
Unless you drive under severe conditions, just stick with the Subaru recommendation. The FB25 is not a DI or turbo engine. There is no reason to drop to 5K OCI with normal driving.
Unless you drive under severe conditions, just stick with the Subaru recommendation. The FB25 is not a DI or turbo engine. There is no reason to drop to 5K OCI with normal driving.
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I have a 2014 Subaru which of course calls for 0-20 oil by the manual. Living in the Phoenix Arizona area
would I not be better off using a 0-30 or even 0-40 wt. oil due to the severe heat ?
would I not be better off using a 0-30 or even 0-40 wt. oil due to the severe heat ?
During warranty period you should stay with recommended 0W20 grade, after warranty you may use 0W30 in summer and 0W20 in winter.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
If you're putting 35K a year on your car, I think it's probably reasonable to assume that the engine sees mainly highway miles.
Even if it doesn't, its only cold start is probably the first one of each working day.
That being the case, 7.5K drains on any API SN 0W-20 should be no problem.
Well put.
If you're putting 35K a year on your car, I think it's probably reasonable to assume that the engine sees mainly highway miles.
Even if it doesn't, its only cold start is probably the first one of each working day.
That being the case, 7.5K drains on any API SN 0W-20 should be no problem.
Well put.
I do in fact put a ton of highway miles on. Interestingly enough the same fb25 engine calls for 5w30 in Europe and Mexico!
Ultimately I'd like to extend to a10k interval and I guess the consensus is the only way to do it is to try and then get a uoa and see what it says.
Ultimately I'd like to extend to a10k interval and I guess the consensus is the only way to do it is to try and then get a uoa and see what it says.
Originally Posted By: webfors
Here we go just for completeness:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nzwgj3cswwkd2r/Subaru_2014_oil_language.JPG
Thanks. I've actually reached out to SoA recently about the inconsistencies in the manual. Right there it clearly states that a thicker viscosity is required in hot weather, although they don't define the thicker viscosity or the hot weather like the pre-2011 manuals. I also advised them that there is no "5W-40 conventional". Is the Canadian manual the same? SoA's CSR spent some time searching for it and said:
"I'll really emphasize that in the reporting to the Publications Department to consider removing it from future owner's manuals."
The Publications Department?!?!?!
I find it funny when people respond to comments about going outside of the manufacturers recommendations with, "you think you know more than the engineers that built your engine?" Not sure how many folks here have a direct link to FHI.
And that's why I love edhackett's signature:
"Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers."
-Dennis
Here we go just for completeness:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nzwgj3cswwkd2r/Subaru_2014_oil_language.JPG
Thanks. I've actually reached out to SoA recently about the inconsistencies in the manual. Right there it clearly states that a thicker viscosity is required in hot weather, although they don't define the thicker viscosity or the hot weather like the pre-2011 manuals. I also advised them that there is no "5W-40 conventional". Is the Canadian manual the same? SoA's CSR spent some time searching for it and said:
"I'll really emphasize that in the reporting to the Publications Department to consider removing it from future owner's manuals."
The Publications Department?!?!?!
I find it funny when people respond to comments about going outside of the manufacturers recommendations with, "you think you know more than the engineers that built your engine?" Not sure how many folks here have a direct link to FHI.
And that's why I love edhackett's signature:
"Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers."
-Dennis
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Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: webfors
Here we go just for completeness:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nzwgj3cswwkd2r/Subaru_2014_oil_language.JPG
Thanks. I've actually reached out to SoA recently about the inconsistencies in the manual. Right there it clearly states that a thicker viscosity is required in hot weather, although they don't define the thicker viscosity or the hot weather like the pre-2011 manuals. I also advised them that there is no "5W-40 conventional". Is the Canadian manual the same?
Not sure. I'll need to review one next time I'm at the dealership.
That language, in my opinion, would lean me towards a 30 weight, and the fact that it's in their manual protects you with respect to warranty.
Originally Posted By: webfors
Here we go just for completeness:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nzwgj3cswwkd2r/Subaru_2014_oil_language.JPG
Thanks. I've actually reached out to SoA recently about the inconsistencies in the manual. Right there it clearly states that a thicker viscosity is required in hot weather, although they don't define the thicker viscosity or the hot weather like the pre-2011 manuals. I also advised them that there is no "5W-40 conventional". Is the Canadian manual the same?
Not sure. I'll need to review one next time I'm at the dealership.
That language, in my opinion, would lean me towards a 30 weight, and the fact that it's in their manual protects you with respect to warranty.
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
I do in fact put a ton of highway miles on. Interestingly enough the same fb25 engine calls for 5w30 in Europe and Mexico!
Ultimately I'd like to extend to a10k interval and I guess the consensus is the only way to do it is to try and then get a uoa and see what it says.
A former bitog'er/Amsoil dealer bought a 2012(?) Outback and went to 12-15k intervals not long after a couple of shorter uoa's. IIRC, he used Amsoil HDD 5W-30 and the ATM 10W-30. The 2012 has the EJ engine.
-Dennis
I do in fact put a ton of highway miles on. Interestingly enough the same fb25 engine calls for 5w30 in Europe and Mexico!
Ultimately I'd like to extend to a10k interval and I guess the consensus is the only way to do it is to try and then get a uoa and see what it says.
A former bitog'er/Amsoil dealer bought a 2012(?) Outback and went to 12-15k intervals not long after a couple of shorter uoa's. IIRC, he used Amsoil HDD 5W-30 and the ATM 10W-30. The 2012 has the EJ engine.
-Dennis
Thanks. For sure I will follow your advice.
Safe to use conventional 5w-30 in the outback 4 cylinder fb25 engine at 5000 mile oc
Originally Posted By: eddieboy66
Safe to use conventional 5w-30 in the outback 4 cylinder fb25 engine at 5000 mile oc
If you read the Owner's Manual, you will see that Subaru strongly recommends that, if needed a different oil can be used for a single oil change, but at the next oil change, the engine should once again get 0W-20. There will be those here that are going to say that the only reason Subaru recommends 0W-20 is for CAFE ratings. But I tend to feel that it's hard to go wrong with following the Owner's Manual.
Safe to use conventional 5w-30 in the outback 4 cylinder fb25 engine at 5000 mile oc
If you read the Owner's Manual, you will see that Subaru strongly recommends that, if needed a different oil can be used for a single oil change, but at the next oil change, the engine should once again get 0W-20. There will be those here that are going to say that the only reason Subaru recommends 0W-20 is for CAFE ratings. But I tend to feel that it's hard to go wrong with following the Owner's Manual.
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