What about the countless people who claim to use FRAM exclusively and raked up serious trouble free miles?
Fram filters really bad?
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they filter alright...they flow below average...the cardboard end caps add to the risk of failure and the bypass valves are somewhat crappy...
but they do work okay...my girlfriends accord had nothing but frams until recently @ 116k miles...
Now it's running purolator filters and running a bit better due to enhanced oil flow. I think something like 5oz per min with fram and now 12oz with the current purolator
but they do work okay...my girlfriends accord had nothing but frams until recently @ 116k miles...
Now it's running purolator filters and running a bit better due to enhanced oil flow. I think something like 5oz per min with fram and now 12oz with the current purolator
Look how many people didn't die when they rode in a car without a seatbelt. The point is, some did die.
How did you measure those flow rates?
I think it's also like the smoking and cancer thing.....
Bob W.
Just because it may be built cheaper, does that mean it doesn't work? what make you think fram filters don't flow as well? you one of the ones that believe that filteration is better than flow? what proof do you have showing a fram is bad? do you know that fram builds filters for some of the quick change oil places??
B.W.
B.W.
Uh Oh!!! LOL
To those confused about lubeowners comment to my post. I first wrote the post saying that getting 150k miles on a car is no big deal these days. (even with crap Frams) With good oil and fitration one can get 300k and up. Then I changed my mind and wrote the seatbelt analogy.
Fram also makes OEM filters for Honda.
I neither go out of my way to buy nor slam Fram, but the absolute hysteria (and THAT'S what it is!) on this site about Fram is wearing VERY thin. (By the way, Fram bashers, I'll repeat a question that I've posed repeatedly (and one which no one seems interested in addressing): if cardboard endcaps are assumed to be so unreliable, what's that say for the filtration media which is even physically weaker?
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BITOG,
You’re joking about everything you just said right?
“do you know that fram builds filters for some of the quick change oil places??”
Yep, Champ does too……we’ve seen postmortem pics aplenty of both on here too.
“I think it's also like the smoking and cancer thing.....”
And the drinking and driving thing
And the crossing a busy road thing
Some things just have a way of catching up with you eventually…
And adding to Andrews above, I wrote this in the flow vs filtration topic just about a week ago:
……I have read that the DENSO filters are short on media, like Frams are typically as well. Frams are notorious for causing startup valvetrain noise that will persist until the oil warms up and thins out enough to flow sufficiently to stop that noise. I had that characteristic symptom years ago until I learned about that here on BITOG. I changed brands of filters and the noise has never recurred. Any filter media has a certain flowrate per unit area”…….
Ray, the cardboard ends don’t cause the problems I have personally had with them, the lack of media causes the lack of flow problems….it’s not hysteria.
You’re joking about everything you just said right?
“do you know that fram builds filters for some of the quick change oil places??”
Yep, Champ does too……we’ve seen postmortem pics aplenty of both on here too.
“I think it's also like the smoking and cancer thing.....”
And the drinking and driving thing
And the crossing a busy road thing
Some things just have a way of catching up with you eventually…
And adding to Andrews above, I wrote this in the flow vs filtration topic just about a week ago:
……I have read that the DENSO filters are short on media, like Frams are typically as well. Frams are notorious for causing startup valvetrain noise that will persist until the oil warms up and thins out enough to flow sufficiently to stop that noise. I had that characteristic symptom years ago until I learned about that here on BITOG. I changed brands of filters and the noise has never recurred. Any filter media has a certain flowrate per unit area”…….
Ray, the cardboard ends don’t cause the problems I have personally had with them, the lack of media causes the lack of flow problems….it’s not hysteria.
Fram, Filtech and Toyo-Riki sourced filters are all sold as OEM Honda filters now.
There was picture on BITOG somplace a few months ago that showed the crappy looking Fram guts in a pretty blue Honda can.
I've never seen you pose that question, and I am not going to pass up the opportunity to answer.
The filtration media serves a different purpose than the end caps. The end caps hold the ends of the filter media. The endcaps are flat and need to hold the filter media straight. If the filter media is not held straight it can buckle. The buckling will cause weak spots in the media which may fail. I would not care if the endcaps were cardboard, but the problem is that many photos of Frams have shown that the cardboard endcaps are unable to hold the media straight. This problem is not seen with filters that have metal endcaps.
I believe that these series of photos (credit to doubleclutch - not me) show that the cardboard endcaps were not strong enough to hold the pleats straight. This caused buckling of the filter media and bits of media to blow through into the center tube. I believe that a combination of metal endplate with a strong metal center tube will prevent this buckling. The carboard endplates on a Fram are just not strong enough. By the way doubleclutch said he had only 4500miles on this filter.
Triple_Se7en
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Thread Quote:
Topic: Fram filters really bad?
Yep.... all but the Extended Guard model. Those are fine.... just overpriced!
Topic: Fram filters really bad?
Yep.... all but the Extended Guard model. Those are fine.... just overpriced!
Show me where the endcaps failed to hold a seal with the filtration media. Your point about buckling is an entirely different issue, but even that never resulted in unfiltered oil passing through the pleating, did it? Ugly is as ugly does, not as ugly looks. I've seen pictures on this site of other brand, well-regarded, filters with metal endcaps with buckled media, too. By the way, do a search - I've posed my question several times, though not lately.
Note to andrews - I did more than research, "buddy". I have my one and only ever leftover fram-made Honda filter on my 2003 Sonata V6 currently. Bought the Canadian "Honda" filter from my selling dealer shortly after buying my previous Accord as a "safety" backup in case the engine tanked while running my usual STs under warranty. (Never had a problem with the STs . . .) Anyway, the Fram-made "Honda" filter has done OK on the Hyundai - no unusual noises at startup, the "can" hasn't ballooned, oil appears as usual on the dipstick, idiot light goes out as soon as the engine catches, never flickers at idle, etc. I have no intention of buying another one, but this Fram "Honda" filter has given me no reason to regret mounting it. (I know, I know - I was "lucky" since it's BITOG membership prevailing wisdom that Fram filters are apt to tank and take the engine with 'em!
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Note to andrews - I did more than research, "buddy". I have my one and only ever leftover fram-made Honda filter on my 2003 Sonata V6 currently. Bought the Canadian "Honda" filter from my selling dealer shortly after buying my previous Accord as a "safety" backup in case the engine tanked while running my usual STs under warranty. (Never had a problem with the STs . . .) Anyway, the Fram-made "Honda" filter has done OK on the Hyundai - no unusual noises at startup, the "can" hasn't ballooned, oil appears as usual on the dipstick, idiot light goes out as soon as the engine catches, never flickers at idle, etc. I have no intention of buying another one, but this Fram "Honda" filter has given me no reason to regret mounting it. (I know, I know - I was "lucky" since it's BITOG membership prevailing wisdom that Fram filters are apt to tank and take the engine with 'em!
Your question was regarding the suitability of cardboard for endcaps. These photos showed endcaps that contributed to the buckling of the media. The buckling of the media contributed to bits of media blowing throught center tube (possibly flowing through the oil galleys). Therefore, Frams cardboard endcaps are not suitable for use in an oil filter.
I have cut open several Honeywell (Fram) filters in the blue Honda can. The Honeywell printed on the side is a dead giveaway. They are basically the same junk Fram design although they do have a silicone ADBV. I will say that I have yet to see a Fram built Honda filter as factory installed. I always see them on cars that the dealer changed the oil on last.
Bob,
Were you asking me if I know that Fram supplies quick lube filters????? Oh yeah, I know. Mileguard, Pennzoil, Security, etc. Most filters for quick lubes are Fram built, glad I am not one of them.
Bob,
Were you asking me if I know that Fram supplies quick lube filters????? Oh yeah, I know. Mileguard, Pennzoil, Security, etc. Most filters for quick lubes are Fram built, glad I am not one of them.
People concentrate on the endcap material(especially the defenders) but the real weakness is the ADBV and the poor fit of the components. That arguement is not weak or thin, it's a fact.
Many people have posted why they don't like Fram filters but that doesn't make them haters or hysterical. If you think so then I suggest a look in the mirror.
For flow rate proof, check out Grease's study.
-T
Many people have posted why they don't like Fram filters but that doesn't make them haters or hysterical. If you think so then I suggest a look in the mirror.
For flow rate proof, check out Grease's study.
-T
How did you measure those flow rates? [/QB][/QUOTE]
basing it off of general web reviews who have measured flow rates.
i also based my filter choice of the prelude filter study since the accord and prelude share the same filters.
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