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#3383948 - 05/29/14 01:06 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 5206
Loc: southeast US
LOL, I have a friend who drives a VW. He is a very talented guy in many disciplines, but clueless about cars. He came to visit me from out of state in his VW. I checked his oil and it was 1.5 qt low. He was shocked as he pays top dollars for service at VW service. He just had oil pan replaced due to leaks ($1500) and some other major work ($$$$) just outside warranty.

Now, when I bought my prius a couple of years ago he would tease me about a "guaranteed" major expense for a battery replacement. Ya, right! He spend more already repairing/servicing his POS VW (not mentioning his VW cost twice as much as my toyota).

My brother in law owns a shop in europe that only repairs VW turbos, injectors, and pumps. Huge demand and he constantly expends his business. They fail a lot, especially in city driving.

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#3383976 - 05/29/14 01:44 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: friendly_jacek]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1006
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
LOL, I have a friend who drives a VW. He is a very talented guy in many disciplines, but clueless about cars. He came to visit me from out of state in his VW. I checked his oil and it was 1.5 qt low. He was shocked as he pays top dollars for service at VW service. He just had oil pan replaced due to leaks ($1500) and some other major work ($$$$) just outside warranty.

Now, when I bought my prius a couple of years ago he would tease me about a "guaranteed" major expense for a battery replacement. Ya, right! He spend more already repairing/servicing his POS VW (not mentioning his VW cost twice as much as my toyota).

My brother in law owns a shop in europe that only repairs VW turbos, injectors, and pumps. Huge demand and he constantly expends his business. They fail a lot, especially in city driving.


Yeah right!
That wonderful Toyota, that drives like a pillow.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3384008 - 05/29/14 02:37 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: geeman789]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 443
Loc: Manchester, England
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: Olas
Maybe the owners manual doesn't mention 'cool-down' because it's obvious? I knew about the need to let a turbo cool down before switching the engine off before I even started my driving lessons..some things are just obvious (IMO!) like checking tyre pressures and fluid levels and bulbs each week. Common sense...


Seriously...? The average driver doesn't know if their car is FWD / RWD... and if the car has a turbo, ask them what it actually is... most have no idea.



You're right that most people have no idea - maybe I'm the stupid one for thinking that you shouldn't own something if you can't look after it? It could be an 'old-fashioned' view for a 30 year old?
But it's never been mysterious or complex to me, just a sprinkle of common sense and a twist of mechanical sympathy.
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
1900 lbs
71000 miles
44mpg
Weber/Millers/Mahle/ITG/Leda/Michelin/Brembo/Pagid/Pioneer

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#3384009 - 05/29/14 02:38 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: rjundi]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 443
Loc: Manchester, England
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Olas


One other thing that people don't seem to do these days? Let the turbo cool down before you switch the engine off!! No better way to kill a turbo in double quick time than to switch the engine off while it's still hot and let the oil in the turbo's bearings turn to coal.



Modern turbo design includes a siphon of coolant and sometimes oil which allows flow to continue a bit a draw heat away.

My wife has 180,000 miles on a Subaru Legacy Turbo(VF40) that uses 4000 mile OCI. She NEVER has let it idle before shut off. OEM turbo was inspected recently and has no free play and in excellent condition as engine was out for a (burned) valve job.


Turbo-timers and water-cooled turbo's are the best invention (for convenience) in the last X number of years! IIRC the TSI is oil cooled, though.
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
1900 lbs
71000 miles
44mpg
Weber/Millers/Mahle/ITG/Leda/Michelin/Brembo/Pagid/Pioneer

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#3384011 - 05/29/14 02:42 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: OneEyeJack]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 443
Loc: Manchester, England
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A Ford engineer said their new turbo engines are built for reliability knowing the average owner/driver has no idea what's going on under the hood. He said running the engine to cool the turbo when turning the engine off is not needed on these new Ford turbo engines. He told me that during customer introductions and surveys less than half the people had any idea of what "checking the oil level" meant. Others knew the concept of changing the oil but did not understand what the oil was supposed to be changed to. They had no idea that the oil was replaced with clean oil on some kind of schedule even with an oil life monitor on the dash. Most people would not find BITOG of any interest.


If that's true my respect for Ford as Engineers and being a customer focused organisation just increased ten-fold! With the exception of a few iconic models, I've generally seen Ford as churning out mediocre cars to an average standard. I'm amazed to hear one of their staff say such a thing and it can only be a good sign smile

Kinda sad that he spoke so badly of so many people though, it just confirms my suspicion that most people are either stupid, or rolling through life on autopilot, or both.
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
1900 lbs
71000 miles
44mpg
Weber/Millers/Mahle/ITG/Leda/Michelin/Brembo/Pagid/Pioneer

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#3384015 - 05/29/14 02:46 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: friendly_jacek]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 443
Loc: Manchester, England
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
LOL, I have a friend who drives a VW. He is a very talented guy in many disciplines, but clueless about cars. He came to visit me from out of state in his VW. I checked his oil and it was 1.5 qt low. He was shocked as he pays top dollars for service at VW service. He just had oil pan replaced due to leaks ($1500) and some other major work ($$$$) just outside warranty.

Now, when I bought my prius a couple of years ago he would tease me about a "guaranteed" major expense for a battery replacement. Ya, right! He spend more already repairing/servicing his POS VW (not mentioning his VW cost twice as much as my toyota).

My brother in law owns a shop in europe that only repairs VW turbos, injectors, and pumps. Huge demand and he constantly expends his business. They fail a lot, especially in city driving.


That you youself called him 'clueless' about cars kinda says something - at 1.5l low the oil wouldn't even be on the dipstick! And the oil light on the dash would be illuminated too! Sometime I think that people are in a competition with themselves to get as many lights on the dash as possible, its like they think its an acheivement or something!
Which car does he drive btw? Over a grand to change a sump-pan is...well...it's a main dealer doing what they know best! A sump&gasket of Ebay is like 20 or 30 notes lol! over a thousand?! The mind boggles!
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
1900 lbs
71000 miles
44mpg
Weber/Millers/Mahle/ITG/Leda/Michelin/Brembo/Pagid/Pioneer

Top
#3384106 - 05/29/14 04:40 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Olas]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11164
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Olas
Maybe the owners manual doesn't mention 'cool-down' because it's obvious? I knew about the need to let a turbo cool down before switching the engine off before I even started my driving lessons..some things are just obvious (IMO!) like checking tyre pressures and fluid levels and bulbs each week.

Good question. It should be obvious, and regardless of the cooling system, I would still give the thing an opportunity to cool down, just because that's what I've always done. Maybe VW/Audi just thinks it's too much of a hassle for customers and will turn them away from their turbo offerings.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3384151 - 05/29/14 05:22 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Olas]
magnus308 Offline


Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 40
Loc: Sweden / Stockholm
Originally Posted By: Olas
Maybe the owners manual doesn't mention 'cool-down' because it's obvious? I knew about the need to let a turbo cool down before switching the engine off before I even started my driving lessons..some things are just obvious (IMO!) like checking tyre pressures and fluid levels and bulbs each week. Common sense.


Most people cant even open the hood on their car and they have no clue where the turbo is or what it do, If car manufacturers start to write all those things in the manuals the we car owners with more knowledge do to keep our car in good condition the potential buyers would start to think its a complicated car to own and drive or that the construction of the engine is not good when other cars do not need such many procedures to keep the car and engine healthy.
99% of the car owners want it to be simple to own and drive a car due to lack of interest in cars.
_________________________
Volvo S60 2,5T 2005

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#3384203 - 05/29/14 06:27 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1215
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: Mathson
Couldn't agree with you more. But then again why turbo cool down is not mentioned in a user's handbook if engine clearly benefits from it. Just a manufacturer's way of [censored] in customer's morning serial.

When it comes to my opinion about VW, I have had a bad experience in a form of timing chain failure and DSG failure in my 2009 Golf. Seems that technology goes backwards.
letting the car idle is a waste of fuel if you use a quality synthetic and coolant is still being pumped through the turbos. Many turbo systems use both oil and water. Coking isn't really an issue these days.
_________________________
'10 335d (Castrol Edge 5w-30, LL04)
'15 435i - German Elves building.

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#3384295 - 05/29/14 07:56 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: BMWTurboDzl]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1006
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Mathson
Couldn't agree with you more. But then again why turbo cool down is not mentioned in a user's handbook if engine clearly benefits from it. Just a manufacturer's way of [censored] in customer's morning serial.

When it comes to my opinion about VW, I have had a bad experience in a form of timing chain failure and DSG failure in my 2009 Golf. Seems that technology goes backwards.
letting the car idle is a waste of fuel if you use a quality synthetic and coolant is still being pumped through the turbos. Many turbo systems use both oil and water. Coking isn't really an issue these days.

You do not need to idle the car unless you parked car in the garage driving at 6,000rpm just before you entered garage.
If you drive 1 mile prior to parking the car normally, turbo will cool off properly. I never push car 1-2 miles prior to parking the car.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3384699 - 05/30/14 08:30 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: edyvw]
Pesca Offline


Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 823
Loc: Montreal, Quebec in Canada
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Mathson
Couldn't agree with you more. But then again why turbo cool down is not mentioned in a user's handbook if engine clearly benefits from it. Just a manufacturer's way of [censored] in customer's morning serial.

When it comes to my opinion about VW, I have had a bad experience in a form of timing chain failure and DSG failure in my 2009 Golf. Seems that technology goes backwards.
letting the car idle is a waste of fuel if you use a quality synthetic and coolant is still being pumped through the turbos. Many turbo systems use both oil and water. Coking isn't really an issue these days.

You do not need to idle the car unless you parked car in the garage driving at 6,000rpm just before you entered garage.
If you drive 1 mile prior to parking the car normally, turbo will cool off properly. I never push car 1-2 miles prior to parking the car.


Correct. That is exactly what a Renault dealer told my dad when his car, a Scenic turbodiesel, started to have turbo problem.
He had seen a lot of engines having this kind of problems, always with about the same amount of kms on them, about 100.000kms if I remember correctly, and all were because the oil started cocking little by little in the pipes and after a while block the pipe and starve the turbo of oil.

Even nowadays you need to let the turbo cool a bit in the last few kms before shutting it down, or you will have problems in the long runs.

You can check french forums about that, it is explained in length, and a lot of dealers know that... and explain it to people who want to listen to it... which is the minority like some people already said.

Since they change cars every 5 years, they don't care that much, that is the second owner who have the problems.
_________________________
2009 BMW 328Xdrive - GC 0w30 with Mann filter
2002 Miata LS - PP 5w20 with Amsoil filter

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#3384985 - 05/30/14 03:26 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
Ayrton Offline


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 658
Loc: Washington State, U.S.
The Saab owners manual I've read on one of their last cars said that after a long drive, keep the car running in park a couple minutes. It's a very hot engine compartment. Therefore, I guess they do sometimes still tell you to do this.

VW makes a very high quality product from what I have seen. I have had several as rental cars, and the materials, the way the car drives, the way things fit together, and all the suspension bits were beautiful. You can really tell a difference. Quality doesn't always mean perfect reliability. Honestly with the price of VW products and the products they offer, I don't know how the competitors compete. Passat versus a Camry or Accord, easy winner to me. Jetta versus a Sentra or Corolla? Tiguan versus Rav 4? The other cars are reliable, solid cars, but the VW option always feels oh so good by comparison, at least to me.

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#3385290 - 05/30/14 10:08 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6714
Loc: Florida
Where was this VW made? In the USA, it seems VW's made in Germany were usually better than ones made outside.

The difference becomes obvious when you regularly work with MKIV Jettas and B5/B5.5 Passats.

I like VWs because of the way the interior feels, and the way they take corners. If someone can put the dynamics if a VW into a car cheaper to maintain and repair, it would be amazing.
_________________________
2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback

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#3385714 - 05/31/14 05:17 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: rjundi]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1781
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: rjundi
...My wife has 180,000 miles on a Subaru Legacy Turbo(VF40) that uses 4000 mile OCI. She NEVER has let it idle before shut off. OEM turbo was inspected recently and has no free play and in excellent condition as engine was out for a (burned) valve job.


Only 1 burned exhaust valve? Did you have a bad injector at that cylinder?

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#3386389 - 06/01/14 04:22 PM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
bigjl Online   content


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1691
Loc: London, England
We used to cook the turbos on the mk1 Zafira with the 2.0 dti engine. Most cars had at least 1 turbo a year.

The mk2 Zafira treated the same way was much better, 1.9cdti Fiat engine, but they had egr valve and dpf issues instead.

The main difference between the two vehicles was that the mk1 was badly underpowered amd to drive moderately fast meant really pushing the engine.

The mk2 had more torque and power and also a 6 speed autobox instead of 4 speed autobox.

We never had any major issues with the 416 Sprinter Ambulances with the 2.7 diesel lump with 160 odd bhp.

But the 515 and 516 Sprinters with the 2.2 engine and with just under 150 and 160 bhp did have turbo issues apparently.

The harder you push a turbo to produce decent performance then the more likely you are to have issues with the turbo.

The 1.2 and 1.4 tsi engines are not known for reliability in the UK.

And i personally consider Ford products to be much better in terms of longevity than many VAG products.

Too many VAG products with school boy errors in terms of engineering.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,129k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci 122k 5kOCI Castrol Edge FST 5w30
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