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#3419363 - 07/09/14 10:16 AM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
stickybuns Offline


Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 119
Loc: texas
The news article from 2011 is about McLaren-Mercedes-Mobil teammates. Are the other teams getting the same wear reduction since 2010 that Neale claims?

Its not oil, yet just the right engine coatings do a lot.

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#3419382 - 07/09/14 10:32 AM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
sprocketser Offline


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 145
Loc: Qc,Canada
Any link to it mate !

My bet would be that s better , with the turbos now .

Wee ll see .
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#3419410 - 07/09/14 10:54 AM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: sprocketser]
stickybuns Offline


Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 119
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: sprocketser
Any link to it mate !
I was referring to the link in the original post, first post in this thread.

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#3419420 - 07/09/14 11:03 AM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: stickybuns]
sprocketser Offline


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 145
Loc: Qc,Canada
Ah , will have a look , thanx .
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#3419425 - 07/09/14 11:08 AM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
sprocketser Offline


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 145
Loc: Qc,Canada
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#3419515 - 07/09/14 12:36 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: sprocketser]
ElastoHydro Offline


Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 218
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: sprocketser


Racing tech! "The smaller Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) and increased power per litre mean that the new engine runs hotter. Oil thins at higher temperatures and thus a hotter engine needs a thicker oil to stop metal components from rubbing together and failing.

However, the hotter conditions and reduced quantity of oil in the ICE (reduced from almost seven litres for the V8 to fewer than three litres for the V6) also mean that the oil must contribute more to cooling the engine. This requires thinner, faster flowing oil.

Additionally, the regulation changes restrict the quantity of fuel that can be consumed per race to 100 kg, which means that the oil needs to help conserve energy by minimising friction. Again, this requires thinner oil.

In order to meet these complex and contradicting requirements, the new engine oil for the 2014 car is a precisely balanced mixture of advanced, thinner synthetic base oils to help cooling and polymer viscosity boosters (which kick-in at higher temperatures) to thicken the oil. Friction-reducing oil components, which make it easier for metal surfaces to slide past each other, have also been used to improve overall fuel economy.

Another consideration is that the higher temperatures also make it more likely that the oil itself will stop working properly. High performance additives have been included to stop the oil from breaking down under these extreme conditions.

Energy losses in the gearbox can also have a significant impact on fuel economy. To address this, Petronas technologists have also produced precision gearbox lubricants for the 2014 car to ensure that energy losses in the transmission are kept to a minimum, whilst making sure that the gearbox is protected from failure.
"

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#3419516 - 07/09/14 12:38 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
ElastoHydro Offline


Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 218
Loc: Florida
Thinner oils with lots of VI. The "Friction-reducing oil components" part is mysterious. Petronas and Mobil battle it out.

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#3419684 - 07/09/14 03:21 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
I decide that I'd to stop reading the magazine article in this part:

Nissan chose ester hydroxyls, part of the alcohol family, probably because the properties of esters in motor oil are well understood as esters have been used as friction modifiers in motor oil for decades. Nissan chose [/B]an ester called PAO; an ester often found as a friction modifier in oil[/B]. By adding PAO so it would be around 10-15% of the oil, when combined with the hydrogen free DLC coating, Nissan created oil that would be attracted to the cam follower on a molecular level.

[censored]? Embromation? GTFOH
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#3420034 - 07/09/14 08:53 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
route66mike Offline


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 147
Loc: Ft. Collins
Rosetta, you mean the article on Nissan Ester oil offered thru dealerships for Nissan engines with the DLC coatings. Its probably not what F1 racing is using, although it uses very small nano diamonds to interact with the ester/DLC interface, which seems advanced.

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#3420512 - 07/10/14 09:40 AM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 740
Loc: quebec canada
With the advant of turbo this year and insanelly long durability of race engine need .all team probably needed new lubricant this year .even more so if their oil is in the 5 or 10 viscosity.i suspect they heavily use graphene.
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#3420561 - 07/10/14 10:32 AM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: FetchFar]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6630
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Just a comment on the magazine articles, a lot of those are based off of information provided from whatever company the article is written about. They can put pretty much whatever they want in there and most people will believe it and move on.

I remember maybe 10 or so years ago when the FIA said that an engine had to last a whole race weekend. There were shockwaves through the garage area and people ran around like the sky was falling saying an engine couldn't last more than 400 miles. Ferrari and BMW were crying because they couldn't use their Q engines. The same thing happened in NASCAR, no way could an engine last a whole weekend. Not only have lubricants advanced, but the engines and manufacturing and machining process have improved to the point that they make more power and are more reliable than ever.
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#3420650 - 07/10/14 12:06 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: bdcardinal]
ElastoHydro Offline


Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 218
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Just a comment on the magazine articles, a lot of those are based off of information provided from whatever company the article is written about. They can put pretty much whatever they want in there and most people will believe it and move on.

I remember maybe 10 or so years ago when the FIA said that an engine had to last a whole race weekend. There were shockwaves through the garage area and people ran around like the sky was falling saying an engine couldn't last more than 400 miles. Ferrari and BMW were crying because they couldn't use their Q engines. The same thing happened in NASCAR, no way could an engine last a whole weekend. Not only have lubricants advanced, but the engines and manufacturing and machining process have improved to the point that they make more power and are more reliable than ever.


I wondered that too. How much of the recent big jump in reliability is because of coatings, metallurgy, better finite element analysis, etc.? Both F1 articles mentioned in this thread are giving the credit to oil. I guess they toss truth our way.

"Concentration ruins your Saturday nights."
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#3421099 - 07/10/14 07:02 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: yvon_la]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7097
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
With the advant of turbo this year and insanelly long durability of race engine need .all team probably needed new lubricant this year .even more so if their oil is in the 5 or 10 viscosity.i suspect they heavily use graphene.


Do you drive a truck for a graphite mining company (are there any graphite mines in the northland??)? shrug LOL
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#3421261 - 07/10/14 09:15 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: dailydriver]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11675
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Graphene only works if you have a flux capacitor, and that's not coming until the next formula.
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#3421357 - 07/10/14 10:42 PM Re: F1 Engine Oil Better as of 2011 -- Anybody Know? [Re: route66mike]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 211
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
Well Buckyballs from diamonds and coatings are ok, the problem was the confusion between Esters (from alcohol + acid or group V) and PAO (group IV). Errata on Basics ... That hurts!


Edited by Rosetta (07/10/14 10:43 PM)
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