Bosch warning on metallic antisieze causing sieze

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I have no idea if this stuff is safe for oxygen sensors and catalytic converters (or anything else for that matter), but Loctite sells a white non-metallic anti seize that can go up to 1,093°C
http://www.henkelna.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797882449921

There seem to be a lot of opinions out there about what (if any) anti-seize should be used with modern spark plugs, since most have a coating on the threads that is supposed to prevent them from seizing in the first place.
 
If the Plug has a "metal shell", i.e. a shiny finish, DO NOT USE anti-seize. Anti seize is only required on non plated plugs.
 
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The Germans are big on ceramic based anti seize compounds. Its cheap and common enough.
I have used Permatex 133K for many years without issue when the white wasn't available, both work well.

http://www.itwcp.de/detail-vbk-25-en.html
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80078-Ant...ords=never-seez

Originally Posted By: 29662
If the Plug has a "metal shell", i.e. a shiny finish, DO NOT USE anti-seize. Anti seize is only required on non plated plugs.

I wish that were true but unfortunately it isn't depending on your location and the engine.
I like to use the old Ford Kent engine as an example. In Europe the spark plugs would seize so badly in these engine without anti seize you would have to pull the head and machine them out.
It didn't mater if the plugs were coated like the NGK they seized tighter than a bulls backside in a hurricane anyway.

Ford USA has so much trouble with one of their 3V engines they actually sent out a TSB recommending the use of it even though they were plated plugs.
We see this all the time on this board with guys living in warm no salt climates claiming never seize is not needed on anything.
Depending on the climate a small amount of never seize can really help and cause no problems.
 
The reason this Bosch statement caught my eye was because they hinted metallic anti-seize was harmful in other ways than the standard over-torquing issue.

Unfortunately, the statement is very vague. What is "Hot metal lubricants"?

The only thing I found about that was graphite based stamping/rolling lubricant.

I did found out that graphite is corrosive to aluminum though. The cheap permatex anti-seize I used/use contains graphite, copper, and aluminum. I'll read up on the alternative/ceramic ones.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
The Germans are big on ceramic based anti seize compounds. Its cheap and common enough.
I have used Permatex 133K for many years without issue when the white wasn't available, both work well.

http://www.itwcp.de/detail-vbk-25-en.html
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80078-Ant...ords=never-seez

Originally Posted By: 29662
If the Plug has a "metal shell", i.e. a shiny finish, DO NOT USE anti-seize. Anti seize is only required on non plated plugs.

I wish that were true but unfortunately it isn't depending on your location and the engine.
I like to use the old Ford Kent engine as an example. In Europe the spark plugs would seize so badly in these engine without anti seize you would have to pull the head and machine them out.
It didn't mater if the plugs were coated like the NGK they seized tighter than a bulls backside in a hurricane anyway.

Ford USA has so much trouble with one of their 3V engines they actually sent out a TSB recommending the use of it even though they were plated plugs.
We see this all the time on this board with guys living in warm no salt climates claiming never seize is not needed on anything.
Depending on the climate a small amount of never seize can really help and cause no problems.


I was just in Germany... I would have picked some of this white stuff to try.

The Permatex you linked to is the standard metal and graphite stuff. Is there a product we can get in the USA that is the white ceramic type?

Wonder if my silaramic ceramix/silicone brake lube would do
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

I wish that were true but unfortunately it isn't depending on your location and the engine . . . We see this all the time on this board with guys living in warm no salt climates claiming never seize is not needed on anything.
Depending on the climate a small amount of never seize can really help and cause no problems.


Isn't that the truth. Can't tell you how much of this we saw on the water. Plated and unplated plugs made no difference. Sometimes, considering the condition of the surrounding fasteners, someone's use of anti-seize definitely saved us a big trip to the machine bench for a plug change.

AL heads are the worst, the threads can rip out of them so easily.

I've never seen anti-seize do anything but prevent problems with spark plugs. The people recommending against it haven't seen what it avoids.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I was just in Germany... I would have picked some of this white stuff to try.

The Permatex you linked to is the standard metal and graphite stuff. Is there a product we can get in the USA that is the white ceramic type?

Wonder if my silaramic ceramix/silicone brake lube would do
wink.gif



yes I use the standard metal and graphite stuff. i figure if its good enough for champion its okay.
Quote:
A high-temperature, graphited lubricant
for application to spark plug installation
threads to prevent galling and seizure.
Sturdy plastic 4
fl. oz. bottle with brush
attached to cap


You can get this one which is the ceramic based.
http://www.emisupply.com/catalog/walter-rock-roll-ceramic-antiseize-paste-106oz-brushtop-p-2310.html

Edit: The stuff jim302 linked to may be ceramic based i don't know.
 
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New one for me, but I would guess that stat-up in a big steamer could wash/leach it away...will have to go back to the CEGB high temperature fasteners manual and see if it's in there...(if you can find it, CEGB "GOM85" (General Operating Manual) has a lot of "approved" anti-siezes, and bolt/material theory.

This will probably achive Bosch's aims...ned to rope in the whole neighbourhood, and share a pot.

https://tds.us.henkel.com/NA/UT/HNAUTTDS.nsf/web/B1C96DD56D243E18882571870000DAE4/$File/HDAS-EN.pdf





http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904468 we covereed a fair bit of ground.
 
Don't use anti-seize on the spark plugs in the first place.

Just put a little bit of tri-flow on the threads to aid with installation.

1381991045706-i3dgezb4gc14-399-80.jpg
 
Its true but at what concentrate level? What is the effect on aluminum alloys like those used in cyl heads and blocks vs soft aluminum which breaks/cracks easily and corrodes quickly?

I don't know the answer but i do know i never had any corrosion issues with the 133K or copper based products used on these parts.
Like anything else too much of a good thing can have negative consequences.
 
I have always used regular silver colored Never Seize on iron and aluminum heads with every kind of plug, and never had a problem.
 
Then there is this..
Quote:
Wrenches with supports,
as seen to the right, are more likely to damage the cerami

You know the plug sockets with the rubber in the middle or center support? Don't use it.
They want you to use the unsupported Hazet style or a straight deep socket. I have these magnetic Hazet wonders but they are EXPENSIVE!

Going by this 99% of American mechanics cant or shouldn't change their own plugs.
I am not knocking the article.
In true German fashion they are showing how to do something to perfection, a philosophy i agree with to a point but there is overkill and IMHO this is perfect example of that.
Buying a $47 plug socket and super duper never seize isn't going to make a lick of difference as long as you don't use too much or break the plugs insulator.
 
Originally Posted By: another Todd
The Locktite stuff uses an "aluminum complex". I am not a chemist, but isn't that going to be metallic? The Loctite literature also says non-metallic.


The stuff I linked to ?
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'm glad someone pointed out that graphite can be corrosive to
aluminum parts. I had no idea!


Can this be confirmed? Graphite is simply carbon so it is surprising that it would be corrosive.
 
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'm glad someone pointed out that graphite can be corrosive to
aluminum parts. I had no idea!


Can this be confirmed? Graphite is simply carbon so it is surprising that it would be corrosive.


Graphite is a conductor, so it facilitates galvanic corrosion, just like 2 dissimilar metals.

Quote:
The use of graphite is limited by its tendency to facilitate pitting corrosion in some stainless steel,[16][17] and to promote galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals (due to its electrical conductivity). It is also corrosive to aluminium in the presence of moisture. For this reason, the US Air Force banned its use as a lubricant in aluminium aircraft,[18] and discouraged its use in aluminium-containing automatic weapons.[19] Even graphite pencil marks on aluminium parts may facilitate corrosion.[20]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite
 
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