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#3383974 - 05/29/14 01:41 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: kschachn]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7475
Loc: Colorado
I agree with you about Archoil. The website does not impress me. Some of the claims they make sound to me like some of the claims made by the Synlube guys who said NASA had used their product.

I am much more impressed with a product like LM moly that Clevy has tested and it is made by a known company. You can order the stuff at NAPA.

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#3383988 - 05/29/14 02:04 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: fireman1073]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7226
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Since finding this site my additive testing days are over. Now I ONLY use what I read is recommended in this forum.

I understand skepticism. In fact I agree with it. The whole additive market is basically snake oil in pretty packages.
But some aren't.
I absolutely admit that I've not always had a positive experience using mos2. In very low mile or newer engines I admit I didn't note any differences worth mentioning,however in every higher mile engine I've used it in I've found there was an improvement in the fuel consumption and running condition of the engine.
I feel this forum is a place to share ideas,and anecdotes about products that maybe some know nothing about,and there are a few if is here who embrace that idea of sharing.
Then there are others who insist on implying posters are lying and just put a negative cloud over the whole thing,and I think that's wrong.
Yes,if a person has had a negative experience with a product being discussed I want to hear it. But it seems there's a select few running that broken record and it's no longer a sharing of ideas and experiences it's a pi$$ing match.
And I'm disgusted by those who attack a few members here based on the news they watch or whatever other truly absurd reason,which has nothing to do with the experience with a product that they are trying to express.
I'm thankful for these guys,and I'm honoured to consider them friends. And these childish attacks by banned guys who've figured out how to bypass their ban takes away from the spirit of the site,which is the sharing of ideas and experiences.
To them I say grow up.
To my friends I say ignore it. These childish posters add nothing and the whole thing has become boring
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3383998 - 05/29/14 02:16 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: Clevy]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7475
Loc: Colorado
Thanks Clevy. Various newer members here of course have no idea what we are talking about. There have been as far as I can determine three members here who kept getting banned and kept coming back with new user names. Two of them apparently have decided to finally call it quits and not come back.

But unfortunately we still have one who keeps getting banned because he seems incapable of following simple rules and comes back maybe just to attack certain members here. I wish this person could GROW UP and learn to follow simple rules if he wants to stay here or else if he is going to continue to attack people here just leave.

The pattern has been that soon enough the attacks begin with the hints that somebody is too old to be posting here, that members here are only allowed to have certain views on things and only allowed to watch certain news channels (because we must support diversity of opinion of course-LOL!), that in my case I am an old man with no family and no friends (actually I have both), and all of the rest of the smug and arrogant nonsense. And then the retread will be banned again for attacking people and then he will come back with a new user name because he is SO CLEVER and SO SUPERIOR to everybody else here.

I really appreciate your testing of MMO and LM moly. I might give LM moly a try one of these days.

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#3384026 - 05/29/14 02:59 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: demarpaint]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3314
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


As for the claim that all one has for oil adds is anecdotal evidence, that is patently false.


I'm not sure I fully understand you. Can you list the additives that have independent lab testing from credible labs that can be verified? Then post the results. Then we can check how many of our members used these products right here in the oil additive section and get a tally of satisfied users vs. unhappy users. We could see just how good independently tested products stack up in the real world.

I think it would be helpful to those members who don't believe in testimonials and want to use products that were tested by a lab in addition to the mfg's testing.


The silence...

Real lab testing is expensive and extremely unlikely for the small market, niche type products being spoken of here.


It appears he edited his post while I was replying, which is why what I quoted appears differently. I think he realized expenses associated with the proper testing some members crave, and the unlikely chance of ever seeing any legit testing results. Sometimes all we have is anecdotal evidence to base our decisions on.


You should never ASSume what is in my mind. I made a mistake and corrected it.

You only have anecdotal evidence as that is what you're willing to accept. But you've been called out before for *not* accepting negative anecdotes when it comes to MMO.

So then you won't *ever* argue with the following:
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
MMO is an old well proven product.

It doesn't fix broken parts. It can't clean out an entire engine that's heavily sludged. But it has its place in a large arsenal of products.

AutoRX is a nuclear bomb by comparison. That stuff is miraculous


Edited by Trajan (05/29/14 03:09 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3384031 - 05/29/14 03:03 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: fireman1073]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3314
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: fireman1073
trajan conclude what you want but it was not my conclusion only what the car computer reported


The conclusion is based on your posting. No more, no less.
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3384035 - 05/29/14 03:08 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: SteveSRT8]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3314
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


As for the claim that all one has for oil adds is anecdotal evidence, that is patently false.


I'm not sure I fully understand you. Can you list the additives that have independent lab testing from credible labs that can be verified? Then post the results. Then we can check how many of our members used these products right here in the oil additive section and get a tally of satisfied users vs. unhappy users. We could see just how good independently tested products stack up in the real world.

I think it would be helpful to those members who don't believe in testimonials and want to use products that were tested by a lab in addition to the mfg's testing.


The silence...

Real lab testing is expensive and extremely unlikely for the small market, niche type products being spoken of here.


So I guess this trumps all then?

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
MMO is an old well proven product.

It doesn't fix broken parts. It can't clean out an entire engine that's heavily sludged. But it has its place in a large arsenal of products.

AutoRX is a nuclear bomb by comparison. That stuff is miraculous


The silence is deafening.


Edited by Trajan (05/29/14 03:14 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3384039 - 05/29/14 03:13 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: kschachn]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3314
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Wowie zowie.

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Trajan said this: 'Don't worry about a high post count.'

'As for "paying for testing..." One does not need the resources of a billionaire to do, say, a before /after compression test if you're going to claim that brand xyz cleaned your rings,'

This has been discussed over and over again and anybody who is interested can do some research. So I am not going into all of this again. But I will say this: One guy, using a compression tester of unknown quality, is NOT SCIENTIFIC PROOF! Science is much more strict than that. If we were going to try to use compression testing to prove or disprove that a product works, we would need very high quality compression testing equipment and a team of unbiased researchers to do the testing. Not one guy who believes in a product doing compression testing with a compression tester of unknown quality. Anybody here at this website who has taken college chemistry and physics classes (like I have) knows that science requires strict testing procedures.

And if a product was tested in a taxi cab fleet before I buy the product is it okay for me to ask the name of the taxi cab company, and the date the testing was done? Or is that too much to ask? Is the customer not allowed to ask any questions?

We also have a new guy at this website who is complaining about certain people having high post count rates. I find this very curious. Especially since certain posters who have been banned form this website were also complaining about high posts counts and certain other things against the SAME POSTERS HERE! Is that not a pattern? There have been several posters here who wound up being banned when they attacked people at this website and they seemed to be complaining about the same people here and they had the same complaints. One of those complaints being high post counts. What a strange coincidence.

And exactly what right does a new member here have to complain about how many posts a member here has? If the owner of the website and the moderators have a problem with how much a member is posting, I am sure they will let that member know. I don't think it is up to a new member to determine how much times a member can post here.

And we need to notice patterns of behavior here. If a series of new posters here have complained about the same group of posters, with the same complaints against those posters, and attacking the same group of posters here, that is a pattern. We have had a whole series of new posters here who have attacked the same group of members, such as demarpaint, Trav, me, and others. I personally have been attacked because of my age, because I watch FOX News, because of how many posts I have (about 7000 in over eleven years-I don't think that is excessive), and for various other reasons. When I became a member here as far as I know there were no age requirements and the last time I checked this was a free country, so I should be allowed to watch what news I want to watch. I am bringing all of this up before the attacks begin again. And when and if I again am told that I have no right to post here because I am too old, or I watch the wrong news channel, or I post too much, I am going to notify the moderators immediately.


Yea, I'd rather trust a before and after compression test posted than some guy saying "My engine runs better because I put xyz in it."

But, I guess the hand on the manifold test or the butt dyno trumps everything.
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3384047 - 05/29/14 03:24 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: Trajan]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21169
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Trajan


You only have anecdotal evidence as that is what you're willing to accept. But you've been called out before for *not* accepting negative anecdotes when it comes to MMO.



Yep you made a mistake and corrected it. I'm still waiting on your lab results to prove otherwise Trajan. You keep harping on testing, lab results etc, show me them. I'll look, but until then there isn't much more to go on. You just don't seem to get it. I sure as [censored] won't pay for the testing to prove to you or anyone else a product works or doesn't work. Of the products I've tried over the years I know what works and what doesn't. In the end that's all that matters to me.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3384051 - 05/29/14 03:34 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: fireman1073]
keesue Offline


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 95
Loc: San Francisco
I've often wondered over my years here on BOTG what the compulsion is to disprove and many times disparage, either overtly or by innuendo, one who is sharing a good experience with a product? Is it a missionary-like zealous calling to save the masses from the evils of snake oil? Just curious...

Posted to get my post count up. :-)
_________________________
1981 Turbo Volvo with over 313,000 miles (bought new)
2001 S60-T5 Volvo

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#3384056 - 05/29/14 03:39 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: demarpaint]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3314
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


You only have anecdotal evidence as that is what you're willing to accept. But you've been called out before for *not* accepting negative anecdotes when it comes to MMO.



Yep you made a mistake and corrected it. I'm still waiting on your lab results to prove otherwise Trajan. You keep harping on testing, lab results etc, show me them. I'll look, but until then there isn't much more to go on. You just don't seem to get it. I sure as [censored] won't pay for the testing to prove to you or anyone else a product works or doesn't work. Of the products I've tried over the years I know what works and what doesn't. In the end that's all that matters to me.



And what lab results would that be? Where did I ask for labs? Since I make no claims, it does not fall to me to prove them. You are familiar with the concept perhaps?

Resources of a billionaire, a millionaire, or even a thousand dollars, is not needed. Don't know why you seem to think it is.

And if what you say is all that matters to you, then these labs I have yet to ask for would be wasted on you. Even the very expensive pen and paper method of keeping track of mpg both before and after an additive.



Edited by Trajan (05/29/14 03:48 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3384060 - 05/29/14 03:44 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: HTSS_TR]
fireman1073 Offline


Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 19
Loc: ma
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I don't know how much is a bottle of Archoil and so far there isn't many positive reviews. Liqui Moly MoS2 has many more positive reviews and costs less than $6-7 at NAPA.

I tried 1/2 bottle MoS2 in my E430 last oil change about 250 miles ago, so far the trip computer shows an improvement from 28.5-29.5 MPG to 20.5 MPG with same average speed of 29 MPH. The most MPG improvement was the first 2-3 miles driving of the day. The engine seems a little quieter, but it's possible my mind playing trick.

For less than $5 half bottle MoS2, the cost of experience is cheap enough such that if it didn't do any good I didn't loose too much.

My plan is 1/2 oz per quart MoS2 first treatment in all cars and 1/4 oz per quart maintenance at every oil change after that.
thank you smile

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#3384061 - 05/29/14 03:47 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: badtlc]
fireman1073 Offline


Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 19
Loc: ma
agree 100 percent
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Well I did say I misunderstood and read into his statement. But the part about being able to measure (and attribute to Archoil) a 1% MPG increase, that I do know about. What do you think about that claim?



For the most part, all this site has is people's opinions about an oil additive working for them. There is no concrete evidence showing MMO, Kreen, Archoil, Zmax, etc. doing anything yet you find supporters of each bickering about the others.

So take the claim like all others as one person's experience. If you don't like it, trust it, whatever, just let it go and move on. This used to be the best subforum on this site because people were open minded and wanted to hear/see others trying new things. Now it is just hypocrites trolling each other.

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#3384066 - 05/29/14 03:53 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: Trajan]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21169
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trajan


You only have anecdotal evidence as that is what you're willing to accept. But you've been called out before for *not* accepting negative anecdotes when it comes to MMO.



Yep you made a mistake and corrected it. I'm still waiting on your lab results to prove otherwise Trajan. You keep harping on testing, lab results etc, show me them. I'll look, but until then there isn't much more to go on. You just don't seem to get it. I sure as [censored] won't pay for the testing to prove to you or anyone else a product works or doesn't work. Of the products I've tried over the years I know what works and what doesn't. In the end that's all that matters to me.



And what lab results would that be? Where did I ask for labs? Since I make no claims, it does not fall to me to prove them. You are familiar with the concept perhaps?

Resources of a billionaire, a millionaire, or even a thousand dollars, is not needed. Don't know why you seem to think it is.



Your stance has been attacking certain people posting anecdotal evidence, then wanting proof to back up their claims. Can you explain how someone proves a product works to your satisfaction, a product that you dislike? You are familiar with that concept aren't you?
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3384069 - 05/29/14 03:58 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: Sam2000]
fireman1073 Offline


Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 19
Loc: ma
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
It amuses me that every few weeks we see the same posters NOT talking about the additive that started the thread but instead pontificating on how discussions on additives SHOULD take place. Which companies make good additives, how we should interpret results, what anecdotes are valid and which are not.

Having to wade through these posts every time is suffocating this sub forum.


oh yeah you nailed it

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#3384074 - 05/29/14 04:04 PM Re: tried archoil [Re: fireman1073]
fireman1073 Offline


Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 19
Loc: ma
hey hey HEY

what about archoil?

have YOU tried it?

what are your results?

if not start your own thread with useless banter discussing product tests and your feelings or displays of intelligence

otherwise how about staying on the subject

archoil and YOUR experience with it

if you have not tried it what can you say about it?

first hand experiences only please

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