Recent Topics
Honda Pilot gas mileage
by G-MAN
10/19/14 09:21 PM
Anyone else fed up with today's country music?
by 04SE
10/19/14 08:52 PM
Best Oil Filter For A 2001 Toyota Avalon V6
by crazyoildude
10/19/14 08:33 PM
Had Trav service my injectors.
by ls1mike
10/19/14 08:14 PM
Video review/test - Noco Genius Boost
by 901Memphis
10/19/14 07:24 PM
Interference diesel engine
by MDettling
10/19/14 07:06 PM
Corolla 1/2 quart too much ATF?
by Corollaman
10/19/14 06:42 PM
yr car has a security system. u lose all the keys,
by edwardh1
10/19/14 06:15 PM
Attepted to steal van
by Scott_mi
10/19/14 04:36 PM
is there an advantage to exercise spare tires?
by friendly_jacek
10/19/14 04:06 PM
Type b grease for Sawzall
by Dan55
10/19/14 03:56 PM
Charged By Dogs on Bicycle (Different Dogs)
by john_pifer
10/19/14 03:50 PM
Newest Members
rvs, tortillasoup, Natedawg, exaltedfox, universalpapers5
51639 Registered Users
Who's Online
20 registered (3800Series, 901Memphis, 01_celica_gt, Apollo14, HappyLittlePony, 2 invisible), 617 Guests and 128 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51639 Members
64 Forums
220947 Topics
3491855 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#3379546 - 05/23/14 07:47 PM Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment?
JerryBob Offline


Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 479
Loc: Washington, DC
I was perusing a Toyota Tacoma site and noticed that some guys upgraded their 4-Cyl by purchasing after-market exhaust headers (HERE) . They claim to get more power and better mpg.

So, other than the obvious issue of $450, I am wondering why these wouldn't be standard equipment, or at least optional? I know there is a downside (reduced filtration) to putting on a K&N racing filter on the intake side, but is there any cost (other than dollars) to putting headers on the exhaust side?

Auto manufacturers seem to go to great lengths to increase their CAFE mileage. Why not use headers?
_________________________
2002 Honda Odyssey TGMO 0w20 M1-104 Filter
2011 Toyota Tacoma TGMO 0w20 M1-102 Filter

Top
#3379550 - 05/23/14 07:50 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
DragRace Offline


Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 2327
Loc: 1/4 Mile Track
Most dealerships dont like modifications of any kind.


Top
#3379551 - 05/23/14 07:51 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
NHGUY Offline


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3367
Loc: USA
Noise.Tinny headers don't insulate valvetrain sounds like cast iron or thicker designs do.

Top
#3379555 - 05/23/14 07:54 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
901Memphis Online   content


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 5966
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Noise, durability, cost. Cast iron works.
_________________________
1999 Ford Taurus 145k (Vulcan v6) - M1 High Mileage 5w30 | Fram Ultra XG 3600
2002 Buick Century 102k - PU 5w30 / Fram Ultra XG 3980 / Filter mag

Top
#3379561 - 05/23/14 08:05 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6894
Loc: Florida
Headers dissipate heat more quickly than iron manifolds, and that can lead to slow cat light off times. Also, that extra heat may harm things under the hood in a car not built for it.

Mazda found a way around this when they created the CX-5. Search for a picture, and you will see. They gained the advantage of 4-2-1 headers without comprising cat light off time.

Some cars left the factory with pipes that are similar to headers. The 2.2 and 2.3 engine found in Honda Accords are built that way.
_________________________
2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback

Top
#3379573 - 05/23/14 08:29 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21291
Loc: NY
Some compaines are incorporating the exhaust mainfold into the cylinder head, like the Chrysler Pentastar engine. I guess it cuts down on weight and costs. It would be impossible to install headers on that type of engine.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


Top
#3379575 - 05/23/14 08:35 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26355
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Some cars come with headers from the factory. Many don't. The 302HO in the 80's came equipped with factory headers (albeit, not very good ones) and many hi-po cars come with them factory like my M5 which has 4-2-1 headers stock.

As others have noted, cast iron is the most common manifold material because of its good heat retention, durability and low cost of manufacture.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
06 Charger R/T

Top
#3379582 - 05/23/14 08:44 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
FXjohn Offline


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1236
Loc: NE Indiana
too many headaches in the long run

Top
#3379584 - 05/23/14 08:46 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
hattaresguy Offline


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 5124
Loc: CT
Hi end cars do.


Top
#3379590 - 05/23/14 08:49 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: hattaresguy]
JerryBob Offline


Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 479
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Hi end cars do.






That's about 3 times the number of cylinders that I have.... grin
_________________________
2002 Honda Odyssey TGMO 0w20 M1-104 Filter
2011 Toyota Tacoma TGMO 0w20 M1-102 Filter

Top
#3379591 - 05/23/14 08:50 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
circuitsmith Offline


Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 152
Loc: Wash, DC
Why no headers?
Cost. Noise. Emissions. Durability.

Thin walled tube headers are more involved to produce and use more expensive metal than a cast header.

Tube headers make more noise under the hood as well as at the tailpipe end.
Most car buyers (especially over 30 y.o.) don't want all that noise.

Tube headers extract and cool the exhaust gases from the cylinder more quickly.
That increases HC emissions and makes the cat converter take more time to warm up.
They can also raise under hood temps.

Modern cast manifolds are far better than the "log" manifolds of yesteryear.
_________________________
2006 Toyota Matrix 5-sp. 1zz-fe 5000mi/12mo OCI
Any major brand dino 5w-30 on sale

Top
#3379612 - 05/23/14 09:25 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
LT4 Vette Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12490
Loc: USA
I would put headers on a V-8 for performance but not spend that $$$ on a 4 cylinder engine.

Top
#3379623 - 05/23/14 09:52 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
Kiwi_ME Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 685
Loc: New Zealand
Amusing the interest in V8s with headers given that most high-volume V8 designs have 360 degree cranks and therefore uneven firing per bank. Same issue with V6s. Whatever good headers do, it's not going to be the same for every cylinder.

Not a problem with the in-line three, four or six however, and many smaller naturally-aspirated fours do have nicely-welded tubular designs.

Top
#3379643 - 05/23/14 10:30 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
WHY? cause car makers make cars ONLY good enough.

Top
#3379653 - 05/23/14 10:42 PM Re: Why Aren't Headers Standard Equipment? [Re: JerryBob]
ddtmoto Offline


Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 237
Loc: Utah
2011+ 5.0 Mustang also have stainless headers. Quad cam heads are too wide tho, can't really see the headers. Dang...
_________________________
Mustang GT 5.0 Brembo '11
ram 5.9
TL1000S
GSXR1000
DRZ400E
'09 GTZ1400 Concours

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >