M1 0w40 9.3K Porsche Cayman 2.7L 29.5K Total

[bvl]

Second run, this time over a year and a touch under 10K miles. 1y/10K is the updated OCI where as this year the manual states 2y/20K miles: guess zee german engineers got their way for one year until the service people cried waaaaaah, lost $200 oil changes

Looks darn good to me, and the M1 seems to have far more life in it. Car has a mixture of 100 day HWY commutes (when I get it) and 20m mixed commutes (her DD). Engine is best when run from 4500-6800

Metals up slightly but that trends with a low average miles in their DB. Both of these are dealer bulk which I assert is M10/40 given the recommendation and deals. I did this one myself and used 8qt of autozones finest on sale M1.

Blackstone comment (I like one comment in particular, very BITOG-ish) :

We are seeing a little more iron in this sample than last time, though we think the longer oil run is probably the biggest factor in that. Iron tends to track directly with time on the oil. The longer the run, the more iron you can expect to see. Remember, averages are based on just under 6,000 miles on the oil (wimps), so your iron reading isn't going to look as good as average after using longer runs. We don't think it's a problem at all. The TBN is good at 4.4 since 1.0 or less is low. Aim for 10,000 miles next time, even if it takes longer than a year. Nice engine!

Code:


OIL M1-0w40 M1-0w40

MILES IN USE 9.3K 6.6K

MILES 29.8K 20.5K

SAMPLE TAKEN 05/06/14 2/28/13

Makeup QT 0 0



ALUMINUM 4 4

CHROMIUM 1 1

IRON 22 13

COPPER 12 13

LEAD 5 2

TIN 1 3

MOLYBDENUM 80 81

NICKEL 0 0

MANGANESE 1 1

SILVER 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0

POTASSIUM 1 4

BORON 158 165

SILICON 5 5

SODIUM 4 6

CALCIUM 3034 3013

MAGNESIUM 45 41

PHOSPHORUS 873 893

ZINC 1045 1030

BARIUM 0 0



INSOLUBLES 0.2 0.2

WATER 0 0

FLASHPOINT ºF 380 385

SUS VIS 210ºF 65.4 62.3

cSt @ 212ºF 11.71 10.87

TBN 4.4

 

[Realtech214]

Looks like you could do 12K

 

[bigt61]

8 qts? It could do 15k easily if you keep it topped off. Very nice report.

 

[Ayrton]

It's a great report for sure. Still, I wouldn't see any need to go over 1 year or 10,000 miles in a car I would treasure as much as this one.

 

[rhhsiao]

What are the universal averages?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Ayrton
It's a great report for sure. Still, I wouldn't see any need to go over 1 year or 10,000 miles in a car I would treasure as much as this one.
Early changes on a LL (high starting TBN/high PPM add Ca compound synthetic) oil will cause MORE wear - so you are not doing the engine a favour changing too soon.

 

[Ndx]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
It's a great report for sure. Still, I wouldn't see any need to go over 1 year or 10,000 miles in a car I would treasure as much as this one.
Early changes on a LL (high starting TBN/high PPM add Ca compound synthetic) oil will cause MORE wear - so you are not doing the engine a favour changing too soon.


Do you have anything to back it up ... It would be really strange that fresh oil would cause MORE wear ...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Ndx
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
It's a great report for sure. Still, I wouldn't see any need to go over 1 year or 10,000 miles in a car I would treasure as much as this one.
Early changes on a LL (high starting TBN/high PPM add Ca compound synthetic) oil will cause MORE wear - so you are not doing the engine a favour changing too soon.


Do you have anything to back it up ... It would be really strange that fresh oil would cause MORE wear ...



It's not strange. In fact it makes total sense when you think about it.

Engine oil requires some oxidation to create the tribo-chemical layer(anti-wear) so when new oil is introduced the detergents scrub the previous anti-wear layer off until sufficient oxidation has occurred and the new oil applies it's layer,so until that happens it's metal on metal.

 

[901Memphis]

I would sure love to see a 20k run on this engine with Mobil 1 0W40. I think 15k is going to be the sweet spot though.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Ndx
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
It's a great report for sure. Still, I wouldn't see any need to go over 1 year or 10,000 miles in a car I would treasure as much as this one.
Early changes on a LL (high starting TBN/high PPM add Ca compound synthetic) oil will cause MORE wear - so you are not doing the engine a favour changing too soon.


Do you have anything to back it up ... It would be really strange that fresh oil would cause MORE wear ...



It's not strange. In fact it makes total sense when you think about it.

Engine oil requires some oxidation to create the tribo-chemical layer(anti-wear) so when new oil is introduced the detergents scrub the previous anti-wear layer off until sufficient oxidation has occurred and the new oil applies it's layer,so until that happens it's metal on metal.


Not really. While the detergent pack in the new oil may strip SOME of the AW compounds off SOME surfaces, you are not creating a metal-on-metal environment. Putting in fresh oil is not akin to spraying the internals down with Brake Kleen and then firing it up dry, which is what you are describing sounds like. The fresh oil is going to provide lubrication. And it is unknown whether sticking with the same brand/add-pack oil results in less stripping of the ZDDP plating (that is heat activated) than bouncing around between brands or not (it has been theorized that this is the case however), but it most certainly doesn't strip things clean, barring all lubrication until it can plate its own AW layer onto things (which don't do a darn thing in the hydrodynamic regime BTW, only sliding surfaces or if you manage to defeat the oil wedge in a bearing).

So while some of the previous AW layer may be removed by fresh oil, it most certainly does NOT result in "metal on metal". If it did, you'd be wiping lobes off cams, scoring bores, wearing out rings and chewing up bearings.

 

[Quattro Pete]

The oil thinned out a bit, but it doesn't look like it's hurting anything. Keep doing what you're doing. Nice ride!

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

It's not strange. In fact it makes total sense when you think about it.

Engine oil requires some oxidation to create the tribo-chemical layer(anti-wear) so when new oil is introduced the detergents scrub the previous anti-wear layer off until sufficient oxidation has occurred and the new oil applies it's layer,so until that happens it's metal on metal.


That is completely false. The idea came from the introduction to an SAE paper where it was shown that the oil film formed by an oil containing only base oil and ZZDP was removed by the addition of a dispersant. Dispersant was added to that oil and the antiwear layer was removed and rebuilt with the dispersant present. Later in the paper it quotes the same paper as to how hard it is to remove the anti-wear layer formed by a fully formulated motor oil.

Fully formulated motor oil does not remove the antiwear layer put in place by a fully formulated oil. The chemical structure of the layer may change with new oil and as the oil ages, but it is always there and always effective.

None, and I mean none, of what can be construed as new oil causing more wear in that paper has anything to do with the operation of a actual engine in day to day use. The paper demonstrated that oil with 15K was still able to form an effective antiwear layer on new parts. That's it. Period. The experimental design used does not allow other conclusions to be supported.


Ed

 

[bvl]

Originally Posted By: rhhsiao
What are the universal averages?


under 6K miles is the average (makes sense, majority of p cars are not primary/DDs. Most folks just dealer change at a few K miles per year, only the OCD types like us use a UOA

Their averages show Iron at 14, and many other stats very similar to my first UOA though Moly/Boron/Calcium are all lower in averages compared to the values in my 2 reports.

I would expect add packs to be very similar considering dealers have been using the same oil (or should have been) for years now on 996/997/986/987 cars.

- b

 

[Ayrton]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
It's a great report for sure. Still, I wouldn't see any need to go over 1 year or 10,000 miles in a car I would treasure as much as this one.
Early changes on a LL (high starting TBN/high PPM add Ca compound synthetic) oil will cause MORE wear - so you are not doing the engine a favour changing too soon.


I believe you are correct on this. Nevertheless, a 10,000 miles OCI interval isn't wasting oil to me. There is also cleanliness to factor in. Even if wear isn't a concern, would fresh keep things cleaner than oil with 10,000 miles?

I know it's easy to assume that manufacturers cut back the OCIs to help their service departments. I have thought the same thing in the past. However, there is also a pressure on them to have those long OCIs, and sometimes they decide to dial it back, and I don't think that is always out of greed.

I will say though, the oil and engine did fantastic on this OCI. Thanks for posting this!

 

[rodinator1234]

For me again it demonstrates how a large sump capacity is the key to long drain intervals. Not to mention the M1 0w40 is without a doubt one of if not there best offering. It continually turns in good UOA's.

 

[PJboy]

Nice report, always heard good things about Mobil 1 0W40 synthetic oil.

 

[bvl]

It is good stuff. Lots of good stuff out there for us to choose from. I am now using M10w40 in my 2002 WRX (which cheerfully ran M1 5/30 for 100+K miles, despite subaru fan boy chicken little syndrome).

Large sump certainly helps with extended intervals no doubt. Its a wee 2.7L engine yet 8 full qt of high quality oil should certainly go much farther then 5-6K that many owners change at. My car had 3 oil changes in its first 14K of life before I picked it up.

I don't think I would want to go 20K on it unless it was a heavy commuter type car, but it should stand up to 15K. My much larger 3.7L Z car only takes 5qt, and I likely could not get 10K out of the PU 5/30 past 10K easily. 7500 has shown fine so far. While under warranty, 5/30. After that may give the M10w40 a try if the new PU doesn't play well with it (it should but time will tell).

- b

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: Clevy

It's not strange. In fact it makes total sense when you think about it.

Engine oil requires some oxidation to create the tribo-chemical layer(anti-wear) so when new oil is introduced the detergents scrub the previous anti-wear layer off until sufficient oxidation has occurred and the new oil applies it's layer,so until that happens it's metal on metal.


That is completely false. The idea came from the introduction to an SAE paper ...


Ed



I was quoting research done by University studies andf backed up but GM and orther big 3 studies that used markers to track wear in situ. It is theorised that the unactivated and at high initial PPM doping) earth metal compound dispersants and over base detergents, which are polar, compete for boundary area and evidence - again through in situ engine testing - higher initial wear during the first 1/4 > 1/3 of the intended OCI. Does it mean anything to me , were I keep mny cars under 50K miles? - no. It may matter to a person who vehicle sees competition use and has a habit of installing new oil for track duty. They may be better served with a "racing" oil that has intentional low service life due to a designed low % detergency ratio.

Search the web.

 

[yvon_la]

Layer?thats it?kind of simplistic,take two piece of glass and baby oil ,put oilbetween the two glass and voila,layer of oil,i begin to understand why big 18 wheel truck maker created their own demand!