Engine work

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My 2005 Legacy GT(turbo 2.5L) w/170k went in for a burned valve/loss of compression on a cylinder. The heads were machined/rebuilt. The mechanic peeked into engine further to replace rings only and do something called honing cylinders. This service was $400 extra. He stated rings were worn as expected for age and cylinders fine and two walls were a bit rough.

Typically it seems all or none. Is it a good approach?
 
It sounds like you already had the work done.

He's got to get at the bottom end to do a ring job, so I don't think $400 unreasonable. Honing is required for new rings. When doing a re-ring, it it customary to do them all. If you had reduced compression and he detected wear, then a re- ring is not a bad idea.

Did he check the bearing clearances when down there? Going that far, I would also check the mains as well.

Bear in mind, and ask him, but you may need to run a quick OCI on a slightly different oil then you're used to to let the new rings bed in correctly. He'll be filling the crankcase the first time, though.
 
Older Subaru engines (newer ones for that matter) usually get new design pistons (piston slap issue) when the crankcase is opened up not just rings.
Not the approach i would have taken on the engine, i would have done a proper bore job with new bearings and pistons/pins and maybe even rods depending on depending on their condition.

No way would i open it up, just hone it and throw new rings in it, too much work for a half arsed effort IMHO.
Given the miles i would probably just tossed a low mile Japanese take out in it for $800.
 
I think a hone is standard stuff for when doing rings; scuff the walls to help the new rings seat. I presume it measured ok on wear?

But for only $400? I know the top end is off, but I know nada about getting out the pistons and rods on a Subaru. I guess it shouldn't be much more than dropping the oil pan and undoing the big end on the rods. So for only $400 more, seems legit, hour plus to pull, hour plus to install, hone, new rings.

But then, why not pull the crank too and check the main bearings also? So close to just doing a full rebuild on this engine, seems almost foolish to not do so.

In hindsight, and not as a criticism but as legitimate asking: had you known you were going in for rings on top of a top end rebuild, would you have bothered? IIRC your wife likes the car, so I understand that is part of the answer.
 
Well, now you'll have new rings, rebuilt heads and 170,000 mile bearings. Not the best solution, IMO, especially if two walls are "a bit rough". I'm not going to dis another shop, but I would have looked into pricing on pulling and rebuilding the entire assembly or acquiring a long block from one of our suppliers.

If you're going to get into it this far, why not just go the whole way and have new everything.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

Given the miles i would probably just tossed a low mile Japanese take out in it for $800.


That came up but this is the STI family motor(EJ255) not typical EJ25 and used not so easy.
 
My hope on this car is the $2600 gives us three-five more years and done.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
My hope on this car is the $2600 gives us three-five more years and done.


Are you sticking 2600.00 into the engine??????????????? Or did I miss something?
 
Originally Posted By: mmavet
Originally Posted By: rjundi
My hope on this car is the $2600 gives us three-five more years and done.


Are you sticking 2600.00 into the engine??????????????? Or did I miss something?


I would not have put $2600 into it like you did. A valve job and re-ring/bearings are fine if you can do most of the work, but if you are paying a mechanic, then you should have bought a rebuilt engine or a used engine. You have a few new things and a lot of old stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
My hope on this car is the $2600 gives us three-five more years and done.

Not to be a ball buster but I just checked one of my local places a brand spanking new not rebuilt short block for the turbo 2.5 i can have for $1,500 out the door.
Its online for $1900 but i get a little better price through a dealer friend. With new heads (not installed on the engine) i could get the thing for about $2100 + HG set.
This short block has all the latest available updates.

Engine, Short block
Legacy/Outback, w/Turbo - 2.5l
ENGINE »Engine
Subaru › Legacy › 2005-2006

Price:$1,891.37

Edit: You have been around BITOG long enough why didn't you ask man, lots of guys here would put you in the right direction or even find you the parts, your in MA which is Subaru country. Next time!
 
Last edited:
I understand I took a $400 ring shortcut vs $2000ish for shortblock. Thanks for that info.

I was expecting it only to be head work only and obligatory replacement items done. I should have asked earlier on when rings came up.

I could handle $3000 max on this mentally but spending $5000 on this car was harder to swallow for wife. In 20 years I have never had an internal engine repair nor spent >$700 repairing a car at once with three Honda's and a WRX.

At least the turbo in excellent condition for 170k !!! My 3500 dino OCI paid off.
 
I had a Jeep dlrship put a re-manned engine in an '83 Wagoneer, then after 5 yrs take it out and drop it into an 88 GW. Then 5 yrs later, I took it out and put in another 88. If you like the car, it is worth keeping it. If you can DIY, so much the better.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

Not the approach i would have taken on the engine, i would have done a proper bore job with new bearings and pistons/pins and maybe even rods depending on depending on their condition.

No way would i open it up, just hone it and throw new rings in it
, too much work for a half arsed effort IMHO.
Given the miles i would probably just tossed a low mile Japanese take out in it for $800.


I disagree with your point about just a hone and ring replacement being insufficient.

A full overhaul would likely require bore, larger pistons, full bearing sets, etc. That's not cheap and may not be worthwhile on an older car.

Nor do I see a simple ring replacement as a bad thing. Quite often, replacing just the rings results in very extended engine life. In fact, if the cylinder is not particularly worn, a proper hone with a rigid hone removes high spots and the cylinders remain true afterwards.

In fact, it's not unusual for industrial engines to last 2000 hours on the factory set of rings and 4000 hours on the replacement rings. Without a full overhaul or bore.
 
Thanks Cujet. I have confidence in mechanic(25yrs on Subie) but he is for sure a guy who does not change the kitchen sink when in there.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Trav

Not the approach i would have taken on the engine, i would have done a proper bore job with new bearings and pistons/pins and maybe even rods depending on depending on their condition.

No way would i open it up, just hone it and throw new rings in it
, too much work for a half arsed effort IMHO.
Given the miles i would probably just tossed a low mile Japanese take out in it for $800.


I disagree with your point about just a hone and ring replacement being insufficient.

A full overhaul would likely require bore, larger pistons, full bearing sets, etc. That's not cheap and may not be worthwhile on an older car.

Nor do I see a simple ring replacement as a bad thing. Quite often, replacing just the rings results in very extended engine life. In fact, if the cylinder is not particularly worn, a proper hone with a rigid hone removes high spots and the cylinders remain true afterwards.

In fact, it's not unusual for industrial engines to last 2000 hours on the factory set of rings and 4000 hours on the replacement rings. Without a full overhaul or bore.

2000? I hope you mean 20,000 and 40,000.
My Grand Prix has an engine hour meter. It is an 04 with 2200 hours on the engine.
So...
2200 hours is 91.666 days.
That is 9.2 days a year
9.2 x 24 hours in a day = 220.8 hours a year (I could have just divide 2200 by 10 but wanted to lay it out)
220.8 divided by 12 = 18.4 hours a month lets just say 19.
Lets assume the car got driven 20 days a month. That is less than an hour a day.
There are industrial engines out there running 24/7 or close to it. Lets assume an engine is run 8 hours a day.
That is 56 hours a week. In 36 weeks it would have over 2000 hours on it.
I know the trucks where I used to work had well over 10,000 hours on them.
A few of the diesel generators ran constanly.
Am I missing something? Is my math incorrect?
 
Thats fine if you disagree but tell me how you hone a EJ block in the car without a torque plate or pull the pistons pins without removing the transmission?
These engines are well known for piston issues are you saying you wouldn't do a proper job and replace the pistons?

He said 2 of the bores were "rough" You would just hone them out and toss some rings in an engine that has 170K on it?
Sorry i cant go along with that as an acceptable repair. To do these engines properly you need split the cases and no one is doing that for $400.

http://www.maperformance.com/blog/subaru-ej25-engine-torque-honing-plate/
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
I understand I took a $400 ring shortcut vs $2000ish for shortblock. Thanks for that info.


Thats not what i meant. When you said you spent $2600 on this i was only saying that is in new engine block and rebuilt heads territory sans turbo.
Hey i have no dog in this fight. If your happy thats fine.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi
My hope on this car is the $2600 gives us three-five more years and done.


Not to pile on, but that is a stiff price for the work identified. $2,200 for a rebuilt head? There's got to be more to this. Just curious, but what's his warranty?
 
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