liqui moly mos2 additive?

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Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Trajan, would you agree that oil additive fanatics seem to lose touch with reality?


Well, I'd rather not get into that. And you shouldn't either
Making it about posters, like was done in the locked thread, gets locked threads.

I just want evidence to back the claims. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

And stories/anecdotes are not evidence.




You make a good point.

I guess I am just amazed that someone who jumped on me for saying I used the cheapest oil that met manufacturer specs after he asked me what oil I used and then expressed a concern that others would see the word "cheapest" and make poor choices, then proceeds to quote approvals for anti seize lubricants as evidence that manufacturers approve powdered moly as an oil additive.


There was no cause for the guy to do that. I use oil from Walmart myself, since you can get Mobil 1/Castrol Edge cheaper than other brick and mortar stores. So is that using cheap oil?

It doesn't matter what anti seize additive was used eighty years ago in an aircraft engine. I fail to see why he made that an issue. And what car manufacturer recommends or uses it in motor oil? It wasn't used in engine oil back then either.

That's something you use to keep, say, the two piece sparkplug Ford uses from seizing so you don't break them while taking them out.

And really, why even take seriously anyone who has to resort to insults when their position falls flat?
 
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Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Originally Posted By: ueberooo
The degree to which this thread is nitpicking is somewhat amazing---and I would think, actually not very important to those who are more practical minded. (Nobody is asking you to use it Sam.)



Sure but there was a huge false equivalence being stated.

Namely that if a component is tested or approved in any engine at any point in time, anything that bears a similarity to it, even if the similarity is in the name, is perfectly ok to use.

And to prove the false equivalence, facts were being made up about another product and the product in question.

When we have posters stating that approvals for an anti seize lubricant are approvals for oil additives from GM and VW, there is a huge danger of misunderstanding for people who may find the post and take it as written.

You may think its nitpicking, I see it as a threat to the credibility of this forum.
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Que gatotj..........
 
http://www.ellsworth.com/Dow-Corning/Molykote/


Ellsworth Adhesives offers a comprehensive line of Dow Corning Molykote silicone anti-seize compounds, pastes, lubricants, and greases.

Pastes: Grease-like materials containing a very high percentage of solid lubricants. Used for assembly and lubrication of highly loaded, slow moving parts for threaded fasteners.

Greases: Solid to semisolid materials consisting of a lubricating fluid, thickening agent and additives. Used on rolling element bearings and other moving parts.

Compounds: Grease-like materials composed of silicone fluids and silica fillers. Used for their sealing, dielectric, non-metal-to-metal lubricating and release properties.

Sure, stick that in motor oil.......
 
Good discussion... My perfect test to see if LiquiMoly MOS2 additive would really help with wear: Run the Sequence IVA cam/lobe wear test, one engine with Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 and the other engine with the same oil plus the extra moly in there. ... Would there be a difference? This test is needed. Some folks, quite reasonably, believe that plain old Pennz Plat cannot get better wear performance any more than it is --- straight stuff!
 
Liqui Moly is a reputable company.

Their two oil products that contain the moly additive are 10w40 and 20w50. Both meet ACEA specs but don't claim to meet manufacturer specs nor are approved by any manufacturer.

The 10w40 is recommended for high mileage engines and is apparently the best selling oil in Germany, presumably for high mileage vehicles.

So my conclusions are that new or not worn engines would show no improvement from this particular additive. If there was an mpg improvement then I think manufacturers would specify the usage of the additive in order to claim lucrative CAFE credits and also claim lower emissions which reduces the cost of ownership in Europe.

Now clearly, Liqui Moly and car owners in Germany believe that the additive helps for some older engines. I certainly would be interested in seeing evidence from controlled tests of what the product could actually achieve and in what circumstances. Vehicle manufacturers viewpoints would also be interesting.

I find it hard to understand why Liqui Moly does not provide something more concrete. I kind of understand why manufacturers do not recommend such additives - they would implicitly be admitting that their engines wear sufficiently at certain mileages that performance is impacted.
 
Good discussion guys! Albeit some of it comes across as arguments, but I have decided to look for oils that have moly already added to their formulation so that I don't end up adding too much moly to my oil mixture. I like how moly has been around for a long time as a good, proven lubricant. Thanks for the responses! All of them are being considered
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Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
Good discussion guys! Albeit some of it comes across as arguments, but I have decided to look for oils that have moly already added to their formulation so that I don't end up adding too much moly to my oil mixture. I like how moly has been around for a long time as a good, proven lubricant. Thanks for the responses! All of them are being considered
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Mos2 is a different type of moly and not the same as what's found in typical motor oils.
Mos2 acts differently as well.
The organic type found in typical engine oils doesn't plate/anneal the engine parts that touch each other like mos2 does.
Mos2 fills in the hills and valleys typically found on metal parts creating a super smooth surface. Mos2 plates these surfaces and creates a sacrificial layer the parts slide on until oil reaches the moving parts. Once the engine cools the plating effect repeats itself.
In my experience I've found that mos2 doesn't do a whole lot when used in newer engines,however once an engine accumulates miles/wear mos2 will aid in restoring lost mileage and potentially lost efficiency by improving ring sealing against cylinder walls.
In my small 160cc Honda engines,that turn air compressor pumps I use it every second oil change,a few ounces,and I've got motors with in excess of 10000 hours,which is basically unheard of due to the conditions these engines run under onsite,from extreme dust and 35c heat in the summer to -40c in the winter and these high hour engines still start first pull,without anything more than oil changes.
So the 7 dollars I spend per can saves me way more than that once service and replacement costs are considered,especially once you figure I've got 16 of these Honda powered compressors,cost savings become exponential.
And presently I'm tracking mileage on the new to me 2001 Sierra C3,with the awd and 6.0 engine.
Thus far 1000 miles(2 tanks)into tracking mileage my best mpg on my commute since the new fuel pump has been 17mpg at 60mph,which is turning the engine at roughly 1700rpm.
Since my commute is 33 miles each way and traffic non-existent I feel its consistent enough to accurately track mileage in a meaningful test,with wind being the only uncontrolled variable.
I'm going to run 10000 miles like this on this oil sump load then at my next oil change add mos2 and track another 10000 miles and note any changes.
Truck has 200k kms/120k milesish which,from my experience with the LS series engines is enough wear to note any improvements in the noted areas.
I'm changing the plugs this weekend and will note any improvements when that variable is considered.
I only adjust a single variable at a time,so any changes can be noted and proper credit given to each adjustment(if any improvement is noted).
Bitogers are a tough crowd which is why I only share my experiences when asked. I don't need the headache that inevitably comes with any claims made when using an oil additive.
Liqui-moly products are the only additives I will spend money on. I've found that they work as described,however today's engine oils are so good that oil additives really aren't required,however in my quest for improved fuel efficiency reducing friction can help gain a mile or 2 per gallon.
In a big v-8 engine a reduction in friction is more noticeable than in a small inline 4 cylinder. More moving parts touching each other means more friction.


Flame suit on.
 
Great points, Clevy! Would you say that moly coats and bonds similar to Ti?
 
Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
Great points, Clevy! Would you say that moly coats and bonds similar to Ti?



I am not familiar with the tribo-chemical layer or how the mechanism works as far as titanium is concerned.
However because I'm never satisfied with partial answers I have emailed liqui-moly and discussed mos2 at length with them,because of all the horror stories I read about mos2.

I learned they do something special to prevent mos2 from settling and creating deposits or slime,which I can confirm based on tearing down my old 2v which used mos2 for over 100k.
Their particulate size is micron and sub-micron sized so it passes easily thru most(all) commercially available oil filters.
Boron is also part of their formulation to aid in tbn retention throughout an entire oil change interval.
And though they say on the can to use at every oil change I've found that once used at full strength only half dosage is required to maintain any benefits because once the moving parts are plated the surface only needs to have enough mos2 to maintain the plating.
I've got probably in the neighbourhood of 30 emails from liqui-moly because of the different questions I asked and how the mechanism worked,so they had someone in their tech department answer me and not just standard customer service.
I found they didn't beat around the bush,give me the "proprietary" blow off and treated my questions,and me as though it/I mattered to them.
Which is another reason they are the only company I will buy any type of friction modifier/oil additive from.
Yes I buy mmo for vacuum line top end soaks and if I could get kreen or chemtool I'd use it too,but for my needs mmo is easy to acquire and fills my needs as far as a cleaner goes.
I happily buy liqui-moly products when I can find them though.
 
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Ok this is Hillarious.

In Dave's attempt to say MoS2 is approved as an engine oil additive by manufacturers, he said this:

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Approved by vehicle manufacturers? Molykote (Dow Corning's trade name for MoS2 in oil suspension) complies with General Motors (Opel) spec B0401264, Volkswagen specification TL52112 and B7217, General Electric's specification TIL-1117-3Ri and Pratt & Whitney's specificition PWA-36246. And, one of the first spectacular uses of MoS2 in motor oil suspension was by Rolls-Royce in their Merlin engine. Granted, the Rolls Royce supercharged V-12 water cooled Merlin was only used in airplanes but the engine application seems appropriate. Pratt & Whitney is still using it.


ALL those manufacturer approvals are for Molykote P74 Super Anti Seize.

This is not an OIL ADDITIVE!!!!!!

I hope you're not using Molykote anti seize in your oil Dave because you found out it has GM and VW approval.

Talk about misstatements! You actually had to gall to claim Molykote is manufacturer approved as an oil additive based on manufacturer approval for Molykote anti seize.


Great post. DB won't be responding.
 
Once again, I would like to point out that our host has provided some educational reading material about MoS2 right here on BITOG. Anyone who says that it doesn't do anything should definately read this material!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/applications-for-lubrication/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/what-is-blow-by/

Liqui-Moly/Lubro-Moly is a very reputable company. MoS2 is NOT snake oil! Their product has been on the market since the 1970s and has been used by many hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are long-time repeat customers who found out about the product by word-of-mouth (like myself). I have been using MoS2 for over 25 years in all of my vehicles over many hundreds of thousands of miles. The MoS2 product is well proven in real world use and it does what they say it does.
IMO there are only four additives that are effective and worthy of use in MY vehicles... MoS2, Lubegard, Techron, and TCW3. I have gotten tangible benefits from all four of them.
 
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Originally Posted By: wag123
Liqui-Moly/Lubro-Moly is a very reputable company. MoS2 is NOT snake oil! Their product has been on the market since the 1970s and has been used by many hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are long-time repeat customers who found out about the product by word-of-mouth (like myself).


Amen
 
Originally Posted By: wag123
Once again, I would like to point out that our host has provided some educational reading material about MoS2 right here on BITOG. Anyone who says that it doesn't do anything should definately read this material!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/applications-for-lubrication/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/what-is-blow-by/

Liqui-Moly/Lubro-Moly is a very reputable company. MoS2 is NOT snake oil! Their product has been on the market since the 1970s and has been used by many hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are long-time repeat customers who found out about the product by word-of-mouth (like myself). I have been using MoS2 for over 25 years in all of my vehicles over many hundreds of thousands of miles. The MoS2 product is well proven in real world use and it does what they say it does.
IMO there are only four additives that are effective and worthy of use in MY vehicles... MoS2, Lubegard, Techron, and TCW3. I have gotten tangible benefits from all four of them.



I haven't used lubegaurd however I have used everything else and I gotta say I agree with you.
I'm not one to spend good money on stuff that doesn't work,so if I found a product didn't work as advertised I certainly wouldn't spend good money on it.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
I think this may be the test people associate with VW and MoS2. Look at example 12.

https://www.google.com/patents/US3223625

Nice addition, thanks. According to the parts guy at the local VW dealer, VWs Molykote MoS2 is still in their parts list. He doesn't have any on hand (no surprise there) but he's ordered some for me. Stay tuned.

BTW, if you go down the very bottom of the patent application link posted by Trav, you will see another 1961 patent in the name of Molykote Produktions Gmbh, a German branch of Dow Corning. If you follow the link in that patent, you will see another patent in the name of Alpha Molykote Corporation, yet another Dow Corning operation - they were researching this back in the 1950's. I'm not sure when the following Brazilian ad appeared, but Dow Corning has had a retail MoS2 oil additive product for at least 60 years, maybe 1954 or earlier.

molykote-fc-maxima-proteco-cmbio-e-diferencial-13981-MLB4563069792_062013-F.jpg


According to Wikipedia, Liqui Moly was formed in 1957 because they, too, had a patent based on liquified Molybdenum Disulfide.

And for those who think this is a forgotten powder, Wikipedia has a nifty chart of showing world production which suggests otherwise.
 
Dave, before you use that stuff in the engine in a car or truck I think you need to do yourself a favor and make sure what the intended uses are. Moly is used for different things.

If I was going to use a moly supplement in my car engine I would use LM, available from NAPA (I would probably have to order it). By the way, Lubegard is still available from NAPA as well as far as I know.

About the only stuff I believe in anymore are Lubegard products, LM moly, Schaeffer's, Bars Leaks, Sta-bil, Techron and Gumout Regane, MMO and Kreen, and that is about it. I am going to buy some Techron pretty soon to put into my gas but I am trying to actually reduce any additive use to almost nothing. For example, I am thinking about just using gas in my wheeled weed trimmer and my lawnmower and not use Stal-bil and MMO.

I might use Kreen if I can get some in my car once a year.
 
The product above says it is for use in manual transmissions and differentials. It's not an engine oil additive.

Ed
 
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