Porsche Classic Oil

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Hey All,

I hope this is not a redundant post. But, the Porsche Classic dept just recently released 2 different grades specifically designed for all air-cooled Porsche engines. Hopefully I've summed it up correctly:

Mineral based 20w-50 (All engines up to 3L in displacement)
PAO based 10w-60 (All engines 3L and above)


Info directly from Porsche:
http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesan...eweditions/oil/
 
What is of more interest is:
1) What specifications must these grades meet?

2) What grade are you using now?

3) Are you/why are you interested in changing grades?
 
I have no reason to use either of these. This was merely meant as an FYI and to start a more in depth discussion on these two different oils.
 
If an in-depth discussion is what you would like, why not answer my other two questions? Or do you want the rest of us to discuss this while you sit silent on the sidelines?


Originally Posted By: ianj3vr6
I have no reason to use either of these. This was merely meant as an FYI and to start a more in depth discussion on these two different oils.
 
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Now that's a set of nice looking cans... ;-)

That's what I was thinking. More garage art.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
If an in-depth discussion is what you would like, why not answer my other two questions? Or do you want the rest of us to discuss this while you sit silent on the sidelines?


Originally Posted By: ianj3vr6
I have no reason to use either of these. This was merely meant as an FYI and to start a more in depth discussion on these two different oils.


Oil Changer, I think the OP is bringing up some news he believes will be of interest to some members. He doesn't necessarily have to conform to your concept of the ideal post.
 
You don't need to guess. He came right out and said he wanted an in-depth discussion. Crazy for me to think he wanted to be involved in his own post, ha?

Originally Posted By: Stelth
[Oil Changer, I think the OP is bringing up some news he believes will be of interest to some members. He doesn't necessarily have to conform to your concept of the ideal post.
 
Thanks for the post.

Too bad they haven't posted any specs. I'd be curious to see how these oils compare to any other 20w-50 or 10w-60.
 
Very interesting!

Now that I've found the perfect oil, I'll have to start searching for the car to go with that oil...always been "Porsche-curious"...

Cheers,
 
Oil Changer, good lord man! Just thought folks here might be interested to see this.I know nothing about this oil, other than what was on the website. I thought this would be a relative post for others who might be interested. To answer your 3 questions:

1)No freaking clue

2)M1 0w-40,T6, TGMO. Look at my sig and figure it out for yourself

3)Not interested in changing anything.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
You don't need to guess. He came right out and said he wanted an in-depth discussion. Crazy for me to think he wanted to be involved in his own post, ha?

Give the guy a break. He posted what he could find, in hopes someone else here may have more info on these.
 
I liked the details provided of why these heavy, lower detergent oils may be more suitable in the referenced older air cooled engines. The comparison to a 0W-30 was interesting (there isn't a 0W-30 on the A40 list) having a more optimum cold start behaviour but it's use could result in leaks, higher oil consumption and lower oil pressure due to the engine's higher production tolerances.

I have a friend with a '72 911 with a rebuilt engine and he has no problem maintaining sufficient oil pressure on using M1 0W-40.
Previous owner was using 20W-50 even after the engine was rebuilt, as most owners of air cooled Porsches do.
The engine runs so much better with the lighter higher VI oil.

My advise to owners of all older cars, is to take advantage of the advances in modern lubricants if you can. If the engine hasn't been rebuilt, is loose and consumes a far bit of oil then sure run a 20W-50 or a 15W-40 if you can maintain OP, but once an engine has been rebuilt use a modern light oil.
 
Hi,
ianj3vr6 - Thanks for the info

These lubricants (viscosities) are what the Factory's Museum in Zuffenhausen uses!

Previously knowing some of the people there including the Director I can assure you they know what they are talking about...................
 
Maybe they know , but obviously Caterham knows better :)) .
How , can someone make recommendation of engine oils that are different than specs coming out from the manufacturers is simply beyond me .
 
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The info Porsche provide, along with their reasoning was a good read. Seeing how these are designed for only their air cooled engines, I'd guess that Porsche thought this through pretty thoroughly and developed accordingly.
 
Originally Posted By: irekm
Maybe they know , but obviously Caterham knows better :)) .
How , can someone make recommendation of engine oils that are different than specs coming out from the manufacturers is simply beyond me.

You might be well served to read some of the posting history on this issue. CATERHAM makes a valid point, and Doug has generally gone with manual recommendations for various Porsches in question, which did include thinner multigrades and monogrades. The points they made are not mutually exclusive.

The vast majority of posters here, including those with fleet and classic experience, would agree that a 20w-50 or the like is rarely actually necessary. That's particularly true if the engine is in good shape and driven conservatively. It's not going to be harmful (assuming it's not used when too cold or driven hard when cold), so it's also a "safe" recommendation.

The manufacturer specs of the time in Europe had a fairly wide variety of viscosities, and a 30 grade and a 50 grade would both fall within that range. If we're lucky, Doug can tell us a bit of the history of the 20w-50 grade, here in this thread - no one tells the story like he does, and it's extremely enlightening.
 
Hi,
Garak - As suggested and for those interested;

The 20W-50 viscosity was the first Euro multigrade oil - it was made by Duckhams. It was called IIRC Duckhams Q2050

It was formulated/made especially around 1958-9 for the Mini - the Mini was introduced in 1959. Due to the integrated engine- gearbox traditional oils were totally unsuitable (excessive-permanent shearing) and they caused all sorts of dramas from excessive leaks to, excessive wear and engine failure. The Q2050 helped with some of these but the A Series engine was modified to cope as for instance oil pump failures resulted from the heavier lubricant under certain conditions.

In other applications the great little A Series engine ran durably and like a dream on SAE20W-20, SAE30 and the 10W-30 from the likes of Mobil(Mobiloil) and others

Castrol followed suit with a 20W-50 around 1960!

The 20W-50 viscosity rapidly became a "fix-it" for all sorts of British applications but the Euro manufacturers were slower on the uptake going progressively to 10W-40

As for Porsche and others I've always preferred the lightest recommended lubricant for the application. The Porsche 928S4 is an example. In the last version it became the first synthetic FF with Shell's XO 5W-40 around 1990. Some OZ Owners were seduced into using a never endorsed 25W-70 in these wonderful engines - why?

They perform very well on 5W-40 synthetic

Of course the Porsche 356 and early production 911s used a FF of HD20W-20 and/or SAE30HD - like other German manufacturers of that time

I prefer not to divulge what Brand 20W-50 the Porsche Museum in Zuffenhausen uses/used to use - but it was/is always warmed to 80C before revs/load was/is applied

Many Oil Companies now make a 10W-60 viscosity (perhaps the modern fix-it viscosity) which dates back to Castrol's Formula R 15W-50 ester based lubricant of the 1970s. Of course we all know the BMW story about this lubricant!!!!!

In some older generation engines of various Makes it is wise to stay with their originally recommended viscosity. This is typically for design, technology and durability reasons!

I hope this is of interest
 
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