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#3394954 - 06/11/14 04:26 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: Marco620]
wag123 Online   content


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 490
Loc: Texas
It amazes me that, with all of the reading material here on BITOG, some people STILL don't get that there are TWO different kinds of moly!
Other than in a couple of grades of Liqui-Moly's own motor oil, colloidal (particulate molybdenum disulfide) MoS2 is not used by ANY other oil company in ANY of their oils. Organic moly (liquid molybdenum oxide) is what the oil companies put in their oil. Other than sharing the WORD moly and both being used to reduce friction and wear, the two substances are NOT the same and work in entirely different ways.
If you want the specific benefits provided by MoS2 colloidal moly, you MUST use an MoS2 additive. I use Liqui-Moly's MoS2. It is a proven product from a reputable company.


Edited by wag123 (06/11/14 04:37 PM)

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#3395091 - 06/11/14 07:54 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: wag123]
GregGA Offline


Registered: 06/19/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Georgia
+1!

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#3395108 - 06/11/14 08:07 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: wag123]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6995
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: wag123
It amazes me that, with all of the reading material here on BITOG, some people STILL don't get that there are TWO different kinds of moly!
Other than in a couple of grades of Liqui-Moly's own motor oil, colloidal (particulate molybdenum disulfide) MoS2 is not used by ANY other oil company in ANY of their oils. Organic moly (liquid molybdenum oxide) is what the oil companies put in their oil. Other than sharing the WORD moly and both being used to reduce friction and wear, the two substances are NOT the same and work in entirely different ways.
If you want the specific benefits provided by MoS2 colloidal moly, you MUST use an MoS2 additive. I use Liqui-Moly's MoS2. It is a proven product from a reputable company.




Hehehe.

With all the info,data and what not we've got in this fine forum I still see posts from guys who truly believe that synthetic is "slipperier" than mineral oil if you can believe that wives tale is still being spread.
There should be a sub-forum titled "can you believe this" where members can post some of funny/absurd/ignorant things we've seen from various sources on the net,and here of course.
Should be good for a laugh anyways.
I'm sure I'd have a few quotes in there over the years.
Theses no shame in admitting I don't know something,ignoring facts though because they don't fit into a pre-conceived notion might be though.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3397950 - 06/15/14 07:17 AM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
Vikas Online   content


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 7860
Loc: NorthEast
My brother hears valve noise on his Porsche. I think he is imagining it because I did not hear it when I drove it (but my hearing is weak) and his Porsche mechanic did not hear it either! He also is little concerned that his mechanic put Motul 5W40 synthetic oil. He was expecting the mechanic to put 10W50 as he is in Virginia climate. I told him to let the mechanic handle it as he knows a *LOT* about these cars and has stellar reputation but my brother is somewhat of an OCD personality when it comes to new to him baby.

So I suggested him that he get a can of LM MOS2 from his local NAPA and put it in. I think this would be the perfect placebo for him :-) Seriously, I think it will make the engine sound nicer and will also give the little bit extra protection to the oil. I assured him that I used it in all my older cars and I have liked it.

Any contrary opinions and rationale behind it? 99 Boxster 77K miles.

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#3398076 - 06/15/14 10:16 AM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
dennishiip Offline


Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 46
Loc: Ca
As far as the viscosity, 5W-40 or 0W-40 is the way to go in the water cooled Porsche. MOS2 is a good choice. I use in all my cars and anecdotally have positive results with it.

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#3398344 - 06/15/14 06:28 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: Vikas]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 6834
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
My brother hears valve noise on his Porsche. I think he is imagining it because I did not hear it when I drove it (but my hearing is weak) and his Porsche mechanic did not hear it either! He also is little concerned that his mechanic put Motul 5W40 synthetic oil. He was expecting the mechanic to put 10W50 as he is in Virginia climate. I told him to let the mechanic handle it as he knows a *LOT* about these cars and has stellar reputation but my brother is somewhat of an OCD personality when it comes to new to him baby.

So I suggested him that he get a can of LM MOS2 from his local NAPA and put it in. I think this would be the perfect placebo for him :-) Seriously, I think it will make the engine sound nicer and will also give the little bit extra protection to the oil. I assured him that I used it in all my older cars and I have liked it.


Depending on which Motul 5W-40 the mechanic installed, it could actually be thicker than even M1 5W-50 in HTHSV!! wink

Also, assure him that Motul oils shear VERY little, especially their 300V line. smile
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 170K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (80/20 mix)
Amsoil EaO 64 filter
Millers CRX 75-140 NT/4oz. XL-3
Ravenol MTF-2

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#3406414 - 06/25/14 10:29 AM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
Maxima97 Offline


Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 316
Loc: WA - Washington
Add 1/2 can to my Explorer and LX470. Didn't calculate Mpg. Just added protection in case of dry friction.
_________________________
97 Maxima, Maxlife 5W30
99 LX470,PU 5W30
98 Explorer,PU 5W30
93 Prizm, PU 5W30
01 Camry,G oil 5W30
95 Villager,Maxlife 5W30
05 Accord,Idemitsu 0W20

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#3406589 - 06/25/14 01:15 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
Coronamaker Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Illinois
Long thread but worth reading, some for the information presented, some to see how adamant folks can be about not wanting to consider an alternate view.

As someone in the Tungsten Disulphide business, I am always interested in opinions such as those presented at BITOG regarding oil and grease additives in their various forms. As far as Liqui-Moly of Germany, they are a very good company, and in many surveys, the most well known brand in Germany.

Yes LM offers two MoS2 fortified oils, and their MoS2 fortified engine treatment. No, the MoS2 fortified blends are not accepted or endorsed by the OEM's, as no OEM will probably ever willingly endorse solid insoluble particulate materials for introduction in their oils. The MoS2 used by LM is a solid particulate form of average particle size less than 0.3 micron which allows it to remain suspended in oil due to it's relatively low mass and high surface area at that size. Additionally it will not have problems with filtration at that size.

While they are not specifically endorsed by any OEM, that does not mean that solid particulates have not been tested and accepted internally by OEMs, just that they will not willing offer that acceptance in a non OEM product.

For example, and sorry that I cannot cite specifics due to NDAs, but every one of the "Big 3" has utilized MoS2 or WS2 solid film coatings in their engines at some time or another. One example is cited here: http://subscriptions.sae.org/content/970009/ on the use of solid film on the piston skirts. These have been typically spray coated or plasma deposited coatings on a variety of parts such as Piston Skirts, various Bearings & Bushings, and (Sure to draw flame from the engine break-in purists) Piston Rings.

In almost every case studies were done because these are sacrificial wear coatings, and when they wear, the coating goes into........ that's right into the oil. Every one of the Big 3 has studied these solid particulates extensively and concluded that there are no negative effects, and in some of the cases noted that the beneficial affects warranted leaving the excess powders on the parts in the case of impingement spray, or thicker layers in the case of deposition to allow for some extra material in the oil.

Now in a standard spray coating of WS2 the average particle size is 0.5 microns. The typical average size of MoS2 is 1-3 microns but can be processed down to 0.3 and lower as needed. So how does that compare to an OEM's acceptable level of oil contaminants? Typical filtration is in the what 10-15 micron effective range if I am not too far off.

So an OEM appears to be fine with filtration that will allow solid contaminants of let's say carbon at 8 microns to wander around the engine, and yes it will probably get filtered eventually. Not the best lubricant in the engine would you say, but proven solid lubricant particulates in the sub micron size range as utilized by LM is a concern?

Again I am asking if you truly believe that a 0.3 micron particle of MoS2, that is less than 1/25th the size of that 8 micron bit of abrasive carbon that is acceptable to the OEMs, is to be considered unacceptable? Sure, get some user that dumps 2 pounds of MoS2 into their Prius engine, there are going to be problems. But used as directed by a competent manufacturer and are you really going to stand by the argument that a solid form of Moly is bad whereas a soluble form is ok?

Now I make a few assumptions here, one is that the particles are actually sub micron and from a reliable source. Two would be that the MoS2 is of high quality because as a mined material, it is subject to the geological conditions under which is formed. Three is that if the solid particulate is in an oil, that the oil blend conforms otherwise to all specifications needed for the vehicle, and if it is a treatment, then the carrier must not interfere with the oil it is being added to.

I surely hope that the folks here do not contend that MoS2 is not a lubricant as that would be ridiculous.

It is worth noting that MoS2 much like WS2 coats almost all of the internal surfaces that it comes in contact with which is one reason a first time treatment will result in more MoS2 coming out of the oil. I have read numerous times that it only coats friction surfaces which is simply not the case. The plus side is that both MoS2 and WS2 will actively hold a film of oil on the surfaces they have coated providing a layer of oil on cold start, as well as providing a corrosion resistant layer when an engine is stored for a prolonged time.

The next technological step in solid lubricants was to drop into the true Nano sizes below 0.1 micron as this increases the surface area and reactivity. In the Nano sizes even WS2, which has about 50% more mass than MoS2, will stay in suspension without a separate dispersant. Nano WS2 is available commercially in products such as Miller's Oil products, or some of Archoil's treatments. Nano MoS2 may or may not ever see commercial product as it is easier to suspend due to it's lower mass.

So that was a few thoughts to add to this discussion, and a question or two about the validity of OEMs views on, and acceptance of, particulate lubricants in an engine. Hope it was not a total waste of your time to read, and I will try to find time to stay more current in the forums.

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#3406672 - 06/25/14 02:48 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
HTSS_TR Online   content


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 12900
Loc: Irvine, CA
Thank you Coronamaker. Great write up.

I use only 1/2 can of Liqui-Moly MoS2 in the E430 with sump capacity of 8.5 quarts. The recommend is full can for 4-5 qt sump and more for 7-8 qt sump.

So far it seems doing good with gas ileage improve by about 0.5-0.8 MPG, from around 18.5-18.8 MPG to about 19.2-19.8 MPG
_________________________
'94 LS400
'00 E430
'04 S2000
"Consumerism has accustomed us to waste. But throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pop Francis

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#3406755 - 06/25/14 04:24 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: HTSS_TR]
wag123 Online   content


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 490
Loc: Texas
Excellent post Coronamaker.
Thank you.


Edited by wag123 (06/25/14 04:24 PM)

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#3407101 - 06/25/14 09:41 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: wag123]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20748
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: wag123
Excellent post Coronamaker.
Thank you.


+1
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops!


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#3431156 - 07/21/14 01:34 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: demarpaint]
123Saab Online   sleepy


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1229
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: wag123
Excellent post Coronamaker.
Thank you.


+1


+2
_________________________
Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated
Nothin' to do and no where to go-o-oh I wanna be sedated

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#3431163 - 07/21/14 01:41 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: wag123]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6995
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: wag123
Excellent post Coronamaker.
Thank you.




Agreed.

Very informative

Thank you
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3431577 - 07/21/14 07:56 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
123Saab Online   sleepy


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1229
Loc: PA
My 2003 4.0 Ford Ranger will get a full dose of Liqui Moly MOS2 in the next week or so with a oil change of Valvoline NextGen 5w-30 and Motorcraft FL820S.

The truck gets driven around 5k a year.

Probably will also put in a Reusable air filter of some kind as well.
_________________________
Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated
Nothin' to do and no where to go-o-oh I wanna be sedated

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#3431756 - 07/21/14 10:41 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
SuperDave456 Offline


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 2240
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Do the MOS2, skip the Reusable Air Filter.

Lots of results via UOA here say they are dubious at best.
Increased silicon levels seen with them don't support long OCI's.

All evidence I've seen points towards that You are better off just changing out a quality air filter every 15,000 miles.

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