Recent Topics
Amsoil EA15K50 or Fram Ultra XG10060?
by GM4LIFE
10 minutes 25 seconds ago
Sunoco gasoline
by Chuckinator
20 minutes 19 seconds ago
Burning smell after driving
by llmercll
21 minutes 12 seconds ago
Wagner ThermoQuiet Or QuickStop?
by Warstud
32 minutes 17 seconds ago
Will I Destroy my Parking Brake?
by SumpChump
33 minutes 46 seconds ago
Fetch Boy Fetch..
by Warstud
48 minutes 25 seconds ago
What kind of flower is this?
by tinmanSC
Today at 03:38 PM
Yokohama Geolander HTS & ATS experiences?
by 01rangerxl
Today at 03:04 PM
Pro-Tec filters?
by leroyd92
Today at 02:17 PM
Cooper CS5 Ultra- Ultra Cheap
by clarkflower
Today at 01:39 PM
TEOST 33C - any relation to DI Intake deposits?
by jrustles
Today at 12:42 PM
kudos to ford
by ram_man
Today at 12:34 PM
Newest Members
mckeven, Edsel, ROVjr, Dieseltrooper88, bluearc74
51389 Registered Users
Who's Online
111 registered (andrewlg, 440Magnum, 1foxracing, 901Memphis, 2010_FX4, 97tbird, 12 invisible), 1688 Guests and 226 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51389 Members
64 Forums
219715 Topics
3467805 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Topic Options
#3367700 - 05/10/14 04:19 PM All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome
Hafiii Offline


Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 9
Loc: PA
Hi all,
Just bought a 28 ton Dirty Hand log splitter and had a question about what hydraulic oil to run in it. I read some back posts on here and got lots of good info but didn't really cover my exact needs so i thought i'd ask. The manual states that it recommends AW32 and does not mention anything else. A sticker on the splitter itself has temp ranges and the AW32 is rated from 10*- 60*, while the AW46 is rated from 32*- 80*. I'd probably be running it on some days closer to 80* or hotter then i would be in the 10* range so it "seems" like a no-brainer, according to the sticker, to run the AW46. Just have to wonder why it isn't mentioned in the manual and everwhere i look for info, guys are running AW32 in their splitters. What would be the disadvantages of running AW46? Everything i'm seeing is that heat is the biggest enemy of hydraulics so why wouldn't you want the oil that keeps the machine running the coolest. I also see an AW68 listed on there with temp range from 50*- 100*. I guess in theory that would be best for above freezing temps?? And what happens if you run the splitter in 32* temps with an oil rated only for 50*? Thanks in advance for any advice. This is all new to me and just want to start out with the proper stuff and do it right from the beginning.
Hafiii

Top
#3367720 - 05/10/14 04:44 PM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 23934
Loc: ME
I wouldn't say thicker oil runs cooler. The heat will still be there but the thicker stuff will work.

I would go off sound, if the pump sounds unhappy when it's warming up it's too thick while if it sounds worse hot go thinner. Remember splitting wood isn't a 100% duty cycle-- you spend time dinking around, and the hydraulics will cool off in that time.

Top
#3367722 - 05/10/14 04:45 PM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
bubbatime Offline


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 1232
Loc: South Florida
Here is the manual for your equipment:
http://dirtyhandtools.com/Log%20Splitter%20Op%20Man.pdf

Page 23 of the manual recommends AW32 or AW46 Hydraulic fluid. Capacity is listed at 4 gallons. I would be tempted to run the AW46 myself.



From the manual:
Please add approximately 4 gallons of hydraulic fluid. The remaining hydraulic fluid will be added after the cylinder is cycled. AW32 or AW46 hydraulic oil is recommended. Automatic transmission fluid can be substituted instead of hydraulic oil when temperatures are below 32F. Use only clean oil and take care to prevent dirt from entering the hydraulic reservoir.
_________________________
2010 Acura TSX 2.4L Havoline Syn 5W20
2009 Chrysler Town & Country 4.0L Castrol GTX 10W30
2006 GMC Sierra 4.8L Quaker State GB 5W30

Top
#3368316 - 05/11/14 08:00 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: eljefino]
Hafiii Offline


Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 9
Loc: PA
eljefino= Thanks for the reply. I think i understand it better now (thanks to you) and was looking at it wrong. So the temp rating is just to say with what oil the unit "functions" properly. Overheating the oil can happen in any temp if you run it to hard. Let me ask this then...... How bad does it have to "sound" to do any damage? Or will it just stop working at either (too hot/cold) extremes? I'm guessing they have some wiggle room built in to those recommendations so if it is rated for 32*- 80* and you are running at 22* or 90* you probably wouldn't even notice it sounding much different?


bubbatime= Also thanks for the reply. I clicked on your link and saw the AW46 listed and couldn't understand how i missed that. I read my operation manual multiple times and did not see AW46 and even checked again just in case. I thought maybe you had the wrong model and checked that, but that was correct. Then i saw the revision number. I have revision A and the one you found was revision B. They must have had bunches of questions about this and changed it for the 2nd revision.

Top
#3368494 - 05/11/14 11:34 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
roadrunner1 Offline


Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 794
Loc: oh
I suggest an ISO 32 fluid. Generally speaking an ISO 32 will run cooler than an ISO 46, the next step in the equation is the lighter fluid lubricating enough in high temps, my guess is an ISO 32 will suffice in your application just fine as log splitting is start/stop operation, not constant.
_________________________
'07 f350 6.0

Top
#3370196 - 05/13/14 08:09 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: roadrunner1]
Hafiii Offline


Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 9
Loc: PA
Thanks. From what i,ve seen here the ISO does not have the additives that the AW has, correct? So the AW should be a better choice for outside equipment in the same weight? Still can't get my head wrapped around the idea that 32 runs cooler, but 46 is recommended for hotter outside temps. Seems like from my research though, either will work just fine for me and i am over thinking it.

How about thoughts on brands? Read on here that for a splitter i don't need any premium or name brand oil and that the filter is more important then the oil. Someone said just find the best priced stuff in your area and go with it. I found a good deal on Shield brand made by Peak. Any positive/negative experiences from anyone?
Hafiii

Top
#3370257 - 05/13/14 09:15 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
roadrunner1 Offline


Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 794
Loc: oh
John Deere HyGard/HyGard lowvis, with the lowvis being an ISO 32 and HyGard being an ISO 46.

I use it in multiple hydraulic systems without issue.
_________________________
'07 f350 6.0

Top
#3373036 - 05/16/14 07:09 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 884
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Hafiii
Thanks. From what i,ve seen here the ISO does not have the additives that the AW has, correct? So the AW should be a better choice for outside equipment in the same weight? Still can't get my head wrapped around the idea that 32 runs cooler, but 46 is recommended for hotter outside temps. Seems like from my research though, either will work just fine for me and i am over thinking it.


"ISO" only tells you the viscosity grade. Most hydraulic oils will have an antiwear package, just check the description.

Top
#3373073 - 05/16/14 08:09 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: supercity]
Hafiii Offline


Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 9
Loc: PA
I found a good deal on AW46 in the Shield brand and ordered some of that to use. It was $31.90 for a 5 gal bucket and should work fine for my application. Just posted a filter question in the filter section so if you have any opinions about that, hop over there and check it out. Thanks to all that replied.
Hafiii

Top
#3374088 - 05/17/14 01:56 PM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
George Bynum Offline


Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 172
Loc: Greenville SC
Originally Posted By: Hafiii
Thanks. From what i,ve seen here the ISO does not have the additives that the AW has, correct? So the AW should be a better choice for outside equipment in the same weight? Still can't get my head wrapped around the idea that 32 runs cooler, but 46 is recommended for hotter outside temps.


You've gotten good accurate info on "ISO", a viscosity measurement.

ISO32 is "thinner" than ISO46 and uses less energy to pump through lines (and pumps and motors and fittings and cylinders, ad nauseum). BUT, rotating equipment (pumps and motors, mostly) has designed viscosity ranges. If temperature can be controlled (typically a liquid-liquid heat exchanger, often including chiller), lower temperatures (I'm NOT talking under 100F here) improves oil life; operating viscosity range is still defined by the manufacturer.

We've not mentioned VI characteristics here, but AW (Anti Wear) fluids by major manufacturers offer different Viscosity index characteristics. As with motor oil, (all general statements are false warning here) products with higher VI often shear to lower viscosity in use, changing characteristics. As an example, Mobil DTE24, which I PERSONALLY feel is the "best" of the major products out there, is an ISO32 with a VI of 95. Their (not sure if still available after Exxon purchase) DTE13, a very good AW hydraulic oil, has a VI of 150.

What does this mean? In an industrial system with good temperature control, I FEEL that the DTE20 series will give longer life of components. In a mobile system, starting at 20F and running to maybe 180F, I FEEL that the less expenive DTE10 series would give longer life of components. BUT, the life of an identical component in THIS mobile use would not be as good as in THIS industrial use.

Now motor oils in hydraulic systems ... Molecule and I have discussed this before, and I defer to his expertise; products designed for use should be better than those designed for a different use. TO ME, motor oils with their "detergent" additives which will emulsify water do have a (low tier) place as hydraulic fluids. Emulsified water is better than free water in the system. But emulsified water is not as good as dry oil. If, for some reason, you will have condensation or water ingression, the water should be handled. With AW oils, most water will settle and can be drained. Some will dissolve which can be (partially) removed via appropriate methods depending on quantity (filter elements, vacuum dehydration, etc)

Did I add to your confusion?

Top
#3374712 - 05/18/14 10:18 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: George Bynum]
Hafiii Offline


Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 9
Loc: PA
Thanks George. Well you did not add to my confusion, but sorry to say, i don't understand it much better.

Ok......So i've seen that i can run ISO, ATF, and even motor oil in there and be fairly safe but lets just focus/talk about AW32 vs AW46 for a second. Mainly because that is what is on the sticker and i can see the info and compare apples to apples. Hopefully if i get that, i can translate it to whatever fluid, although i probably won't use it.

They list the AW32 as rated for 10*- 60* and the AW46 as 32*- 80*, as i mentioned above (just wanted to add that for anyone that skipped down). Now i've been assuming they mean outside temps because the average log splitter person does not have a way to measure or monitor oil temps. There isn't any heat exchanger or chiller installed as it is, like some have said, the most basic hydraulic system. The AW32 is thinner so it uses less energy to pump thru the lines and in theory run "cooler" meaning the equipment wouldn't get as hot. Now the AW46 is thicker and as it gets colder outside, it is too thick to flow and perform properly. On the high end of the recommendation is the "shearing" that you talk about? If the AW32 gets too hot, basically from the outside temps not letting the machine cool properly, the oil will shear down and not lubricate properly? And that is measured in a VI number? So the thinnest oil you can get away with, without shearing, is the best choice?
Hafiii

Top
#3375747 - 05/19/14 04:00 PM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
George Bynum Offline


Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 172
Loc: Greenville SC
You don't run "ISO" oil, you run a an oil with an ISO grade ... motor oil has one, ATF has one, Hydraulic oil has one (whether AntiWear or not).

While I wait for Molecule (he's the TRUE expert in this field) to kick my hind end, if I lived in PA and was planning to do most of my splitting in the winter, I (that's me, personally) would use a 5W30 engine oil from Walmart and change it annually. That oil, new, would behave like an AW32 when cold and between AW46 and AW68 as it heats up. Shear down means, generally, that the VI improvers cease working very well, their long molecular chains that resist viscosity change get cut into shorter chains. That 5W30 would gradually act more like a 7W25 then a 9W15 then maaybe a SAE12 ... or like an ISO 36 perhaps. NOTE my changes are general, not specific.

Why NOT use motor oil? New energy conserving oils lack some additives hydraulic systems like. I'm not sure that 5W30 meets the energy conserving criteria; 5W40 doesn't, but that high a VI usually won't last long in a hydraulic pump.

You don't want to change every year? A large reservoir and its a lot of money? DO NOT use engine oil in my opinion; stuff doesn't settle with it. Me ... in that case, I'd use, in a log splitter run hard where the oil will get hot, AW46 and cycle it multiple times at startup without building pressure ... warm it up to at least 60F before building pressure, 90F better. If you will split 10 logs every few days, I'd use AW32 and put my hand on the tank; if it isn't uncomfortably hot, you're fine. Many level indicators have a thermometer in them ... log splitters don't expect oil to last 5 years of 24-7 operation ... so increased thermal breakdown isn't really a problem. Try to keep it under 140F, if it gets to 150F stop work and let it circulate and cool.

In any case, the POS filter element put on by the manufacturer is exactly that. You can spend some more $$ and get a decent element. If you are worried about condensation, you can get a water absorbing element to run for a while ... short life, but they will reduce even dissolved water. Most industrial filter manufacturers make them.

I hesitate to step on sponsors' toes and recommend filters, but 8 manufacturers from whom I've used products are Norman, Hydac, Schroeder, Parker, Rexroth, Donaldson, Wix, and Vickers. All of these make some good and some not so good (cheap vs inexpensive) elements

George

Top
#3376328 - 05/20/14 09:50 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: George Bynum]
Hafiii Offline


Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 9
Loc: PA
George,
Excellent info! Thanks!!

Oooops, my bad on the ISO. For some reason all i've read about it, i had it in my mind and was thinking it was a different style oil like AW or SAE or 5W30.

I'm not into changing oil every year in that thing so i probably wouldn't go the 5W30 engine oil route. It does seem to have some advantages the way you wrote it though.

I have read multiple things about the benefits of running a better filter and would like to spend the extra bucks to get one if i can. I tried posting in the filter section about how to determine which filter is compatible but nothing extremely helpful so far. 2 of the ones you mention (Parker and Hydac) i've seen in other posts as good filters but i have no way to tell what will fit. Maybe you have some thoughts on this. Do i measure the thread size? Outside dimensions? Internal construction? As i wrote in the other post, there isn't any number on my factory filter to cross reference with anything. It looks like a standard car filter to me but i must admit i don't know much about that sort of thing. I still pay someone to change the oil in my truck. blush Will i get flamed for that on here (smile)? Anyway, thanks again for your help and knowledge.
Hafiii

Top
#3377040 - 05/21/14 12:39 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
Farmmal Offline


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Michigan
If I may.

The pump on that splitter is a typical Barnes.

They run just fine from around 10 degrees, to about 75F, on plain old multi vis Universal Tractor hydro, and without fuss or wear issues.

Above 75, heating up the oil isn't a problem because splitting in the heat sucks anyhow, and folks slow down.
The tank IS the radiator, keep it full in warmer weather.

In the cold, run the tank 3/4 full, and slap a magnetic block heater on the tank for 30 Min before operating, and allow 15 Min of idle to warm things up. Keep snow from around the tank.
Outside temp isn't the issue, it's the oil temp and rate of cooling. More oil takes longer to warm up and 3/4 tank is plenty.

Before winter, let it sit for a day, and drain the water that settled in the bottom of the tank as well as a 1/4 tank to reduce volume, and swap the filter out for the year.

The filter is positioned slightly lower than the tank and plumbed on the return side, so it will collect water but most will settle in the tank. You don't want it to freeze in either.

Keep the tank vent free from junk, and most moisture will evap off in winter when the oil heats up. Plug it, and you invite problems with ice.

I run a very similar splitter, and have had a few others over the years. It gets run every year splitting 8-10 Cords from Fall through winter, and I like to split when it's good and cold, the best. Just get the tank warmed up to temp with the heater and idling and you should get years and years out of the pump, with plain old quality Universal or Deere Hyguard.

Think seriously about running a synthetic oil in the motor after the first OCI, and before winter.
Starts are a LOT easier in the cold, nevermind the benefits for an infrequent use small engine, bieng more than worth the extra couple bucks.

Top
#3378061 - 05/22/14 07:33 AM Re: All thoughts for log splitter oil welcome [Re: Hafiii]
ac_tc Offline


Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 518
Loc: sweden
This type of equipment usually ends up running
THF or STOU oils and they do it good...
Many farmers use just 10w-30 stou oil for everything from
gearboxes, hydraulics, engines etc.
_________________________
-98 Dodge Durango 5.9 4*4 HDEO 10w- 40 ci4
-04 PT Cruser GT 10w- 40 HDEO ci4
-Everything else HDEO 10w- 40 ci4/STOU 10w-30/THF

Top