Defective Valuecraft 3600 Ecore Pics

novadude · May 2, 2005

quote:

However, it is irrelevant if it goes back down or not. It does need to be sealed on the media pleats.

But it DOES! You can easily see where oil can flow around the endcap, without the leaf spring stopping it.

In fact, in looking at the pictures, I'm wondering if the leaf spring is CAUSING the endcap to pull loose. As the leaf spring pushes on the ID, perhaps there is bit of a diaphragm effect causing the OD of the endcap to want to pull away from the media at the periphery.

RZ28 · May 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Filter guy:
Well..when I posted before I was at lunch at home and in a hurry to post and go back to work.

Let me clarify a few points I can see I have created some confusion with.

1: The endcap and how it is sealed to the element.

Because the endcap is a "media" and not metal, the endcap is thermo-bonded to the pleated element.

That's the point, the pictures show that the endcap is NOT fully bonded to the pleated element.

Filter guy · May 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by novadude:

quote:

However, it is irrelevant if it goes back down or not. It does need to be sealed on the media pleats.

Click to expand...

But it DOES! You can easily see where oil can flow around the endcap, without the leaf spring stopping it.

In fact, in looking at the pictures, I'm wondering if the leaf spring is CAUSING the endcap to pull loose. As the leaf spring pushes on the ID, perhaps there is bit of a diaphragm effect causing the OD of the endcap to want to pull away from the media at the periphery.

You missed my point..

There is nothing one can do. Period.

If the endcap is not secured to the element..that's it. It is a mismanufactured filter.

So it is irrelivent whether you can or can't physically put the end cap back down. The water has gone under the bridge, so to speak..

Anyone who finds one of these should contact Champ and send it back.

If you have actually used the filter and cut it open after the fact, Champ will honor the warranty if the filter is mismanufactured. Just like they did with a clicker valve that one poster in here sent back. They paid his claim.

So it's simple...

The consumer is protected. Makes no difference if the car is 1 year old or 41 years old.

I bet GM won't honor the warranty on a 59 Vette..but a filter company will if their filter causes damage due to a mismanufactured filter.

pajim17057 · May 2, 2005

Just looks like another case of corp. cost cutting to me.

Filter Guy you are just plain to defensive. Do you work for champ labs? Or not getting it?

XS650 · May 2, 2005

Is Champion on a mission to make Fram look good by comparison?

Pictures of the occasional failed Fram show up, I even found a new in box Fram with partially glued endcap myself. Now it looks like Champions with failed elements are more common than Frams with the same problem.

It's sad to see a decent quailty low priced filter "value engineered" to the level we are seeing here.

Winston · May 2, 2005

I just read the brochure on the E-Core filter. The "clicker" thing on the end is not the bypass valve(no wonder no one could figure out how it works). The bypass is built into the ADBV at the base of the filter.

http://www.champlabs.com/ECOREBROCHURE.pdf

427Z06 · May 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Filter guy:

quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:
Hey Mel!!! Explain how all those millions spent led to this.

Click to expand...

I will as soon as someone explains to me what's wrong..

Maybe you can..i'll await your engineering analysis before I comment.

I waited to see if you could handle this without my "engineering analysis". Looks like you did just fine.

Filter guy · May 2, 2005

Looks like, eh..

But I wonder how many warranties Purolator, AC, Wix, Baldwin, Donaldson, Fram, etc have.....

Shannow · May 2, 2005

first, you have to realise that there is a defective filter. How many people rip them to pieces, tofind that they are defective and send them back ?

second, what is the engine covereage under contract law ?

A defective filter (may) entitle the person who bought it to a refund (assuming that it's not abused etc)

Are they also entitled to "consequential damage" ?

Gary Allan · May 2, 2005

Well, although there are some obvious issues with the ecore there. I'm a bit in question of the entire design concept of this type of filter. Here we have, what appears to be, a fine piece of manufacuring in this Hamp. Perfect adhesive application. No apparent "defects" ...yet I can't for the life of me figure out how it filters oil.

novadude · May 2, 2005

quote:

If the endcap is not secured to the element..that's it. It is a mismanufactured filter.

Thank you! Now we are getting somewhere!

That is why I will stay away from the ecore. It seems that manufacturing defects are pretty common. If they can get the bugs worked out of the bonding process, I think it will be a nice filter.

It is pretty sad that BITOG has to serve as Champs QC department.

The big question is: Are they aware of these issues, and what are they doing to fix them?

edwardh1 · May 2, 2005

someone should send them a e mail with the link
maybe they will send you a coupon good for a Wix?!!

Filter guy · May 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by edwardh1:
someone should send them a e mail with the link
maybe they will send you a coupon good for a Wix?!!

Any filter company would prefer to have the filter back. Not just an email. Which is why I gave him the toll free number to call and get a filter retrieval kit.

That's why filter companies have a lot of lab equipment to test and evaluate returned filters. You can't fix a problem unless you can actually have the problem in house and see why something wasn't done right. Pictures are nice but are virtually useless for a piece of test equipment.

And who knows maybe they will give him a free Wix filter, afterall Champ builds some Wix filters..

427Z06 · May 3, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Here we have, what appears to be, a fine piece of manufacuring in this Hamp. Perfect adhesive application. No apparent "defects" ...yet I can't for the life of me figure out how it filters oil.

I see your point. Any more details on where this picture came from, and the filter's intended application?

P.S. Oh...I found the "RSX oil filters exposed" thread. Upon closer inspection of the pictures, I'm wondering if the ends of the media aren't a fold, at least at one end?

[ May 03, 2005, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]

novadude · May 3, 2005

Why wouldn't that hamp filter? Provided the spring at the bottom of the can sealed against the felt-like material, I do not see any dirty-side-to-clean-side path if everything stays glued. Of course, I am assuming that the closely spaced pleats are glued together at the ends, like many air filters. IS this true?

Gary Allan · May 3, 2005

quote:

Why wouldn't that hamp filter? Provided the spring at the bottom of the can sealed against the felt-like material, I do not see any dirty-side-to-clean-side path if everything stays glued. Of course, I am assuming that the closely spaced pleats are glued together at the ends, like many air filters.

If the ends are glued together ..then the ecore should have no problems either. The glue in the Hamp has a distinctive placement. Oil merely would route into the pleat ends and enter the centerwell. That is, the only difference between that and an ecore ..is a better bonding of the felt material and it doesn't cover the entire pleated media. If the spring that you refer to keeps that in place ..then you can use an ecore with confidence. It's just as good ..just more sloppily assembled.

ediamiam · May 3, 2005

This is turning into a validation of lubeowners posting on finding mucho problems with ecore.

gudmund · May 3, 2005

After seeing the pictures here along with the one I cut open maybe Wal-Mart got the word and is now going FRAM because of this!!!! I've got to say the FRAM does look better-not much better- but better. The "Encore", in my opinion, is now at the bottom of MY list, bumping FRAM up one. Just my opinion.

Filter guy · May 3, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Shannow:
first, you have to realise that there is a defective filter. How many people rip them to pieces, tofind that they are defective and send them back ?

second, what is the engine covereage under contract law ?

A defective filter (may) entitle the person who bought it to a refund (assuming that it's not abused etc)

Are they also entitled to "consequential damage" ?

Well one member of this forum was paid for the damages to his engine caused by a defective Champ filter.

If you read the warranties of US filter companies it spells it out what they will pay for. So if you get a new battery at the same time your engine is rebuilt , the filter companies won't pay for the battery.

novadude · May 3, 2005

Assuming the glue joint is in tact, I still do not see an issue with that Hamp filter. What am I missing?

If the Glue joint stayed in tact on the Ecore, I do not think the ecore has any problems.

I am assuming that the "felt" is rigid enough to stay flat against the pleat ends when properly glued.

Defective Valuecraft 3600 Ecore Pics

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