What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do?

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To test Ceratec for personal use we patched up a blown engine due to a blown oil cooler line and ran it for one million revolutions with a chewed up crankshaft connecting rod surface using a good used connecting rod and new standard size rod insert due to damage from the spinning rod bearing due to no motor oil.

Our results are posted in this thread.

While we all know synthetic motor oil does NOT add more functional engine life than Dino oil many of us prefer to use synthetic if for only emotional reasons. I agree the use of products like Ceratec, Arch oil AR9300, etc may be a waste of money as is synthetic oil.
 
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Our results are posted in this thread.

The thread link didn't come through. Would you post/re-post it? Thanks.
 
Earlier in this thread, I opined that if you really want to know how long an engine is expected to last, simply look at the manufacturer's warranty period. Trav responded:

Originally Posted By: Trav
Any idea what the warranty was on the MB, BMW, VW/Audi, Porsche, etc sold in Germany was in the 80's? 1 yr 12,000 Km. Today its only 2 or 3 yrs in Germany. I guess they couldn't be very good cars.

Trav was exactly correct, although it rather proves my point. There were similar short warranties in the US. Today, US warranties are much longer - perhaps 5-years on the power train. This could be because the cars are better built or perhaps the car maker's unwavering concern for the consumer, but the most likely reason is legal.

In 1963, the US passed the Clean Air Act, which was extensively amended in 1970, plus other amendments. By 1995, this law required vehicles sold in the US to meet certain clean air standards. It further required that the vehicle warranty must cover failure of an emission's test in the first 2 years/24,000 miles (the 'performance warranty) and that specified emission components and systems must last for 8 years/80,000 miles (the 'Design and Defect Warranty').

Auto makers were left in a peculiar position: they had to comply with the law regarding the emission/components warranty, but if they did so and still only offered only a 1- or 2-year vehicle warranty (or power train warranty), it did not send a particularly flattering message about their product. Furthermore, if you did have a power train failure, you might be able to convince a jury that this failure should be covered by the emission/component part of the Clean Air Act warranty. This situation was worse than oil which turns black.

Most vehicle makers got in line and offered longer warranties, at least on the power train - 5-years or more in some cases. Perhaps the vehicles were really better quality, perhaps not. Technology had also progressed or at least evolved.

Originally Posted By: Trav
I guess they [German cars] couldn't be very good cars.

That's a complicated statement, probably meant to be sarcastic. Mercedes-Benz/Daimler Benz builds very good cars - perhaps the best automobiles in the world - as befits the company that invented the automobile. Mercedes are also very expensive, so comparisons to lesser vehicles is problematic.

As for the the other German car makers ["BMW, VW/Audi, Porsche, etc"] their reputation for quality probably exceeds reality. If you look at independent tests for reliability, quality, whatever, none of these marques get particularly high marks. Over the years, I've personally owned and serviced 3 water-cooled VWs and my personal experience was that they were interesting cars and fun to drive but not super reliable. I've worked on BMWs in the shop and neither I nor any of the other mechanics thought their quality was even close to that of Mercedes. Nice cars, yes! High quality, not so much. Back then, Audi was a ho-hum brand - they've burnished their reputation in recent years, mostly through advertising.

In fact, each of these German companies has an extensive advertising campaign to improve their 'quality' image. These programs include racing sponsorship and/or racing teams using their own vehicles. It is not exactly clear if this technology or expertise transfers to a more reliable or long-lived vehicle. Ford Motor Company also fielded a moderately successful Formula-1 racing team some years ago, but it contributed little to Ford's 'quality' reputation.

I am not suggesting that any of these German cars are not nice cars to own, not fun to drive, or anything remotely like that. But if you want reliability, low maintenance and long vehicle life, buy a Toyota.
 
Look at the CPO warranties.

Mercedes just went unlimited from 100k.

But all CPO warranties are way beyond initial mileage. It's almost as if they think their new cars could go wrong but once they have survived a year or three and they pass an inspection, they are more confident.
 
Out of interest, I looked at the model years of vehicles at PicknPull.

Most definitely, Japanese cars were at least 5 years older than domestic and German.
 
To me, this is just many rounds of the same thing from that very same poster over and over again.

Bertrand Russell's cosmic teapot, anyone?

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Our results are posted in this thread.

The thread link didn't come through. Would you post/re-post it? Thanks.


Look at my 25 April 2014 post in this thread or a copy of it below.

Copy
As Jtrans5 noted the dry start up is not really possible due to the hard coating. We are not talking build up that can measurably add to thickness. The place where the build up helps the most on the 325 Polaris aluminum head based on visual at tear down was the ceramic layer on the aluminum cam shaft bearings surface. That top aluminum bearing surface in any engine is as risk of a 'dry' start so if Ceratec coats those services how could it be a bad thing. Liqui Moly is not snake oil company I think most will agree.

Just from science I would not want competing coating chemicals trying to fight it out for bare metal parts at the same time. I could even see driving a few hundred miles on a new oil change before adding the Ceratec so the new detergent has cleaned the metal bearing surfaces very well.

Actually if anyone has some research on HOW and when one gets the coating build up when using something like Ceratec or Archoil AR 9300 I would like a link. I know from tearing down the 325 Polaris engine after 11 hours of idle time (had a chewed up crank from being ran without oil) and we just replaced the rod inserts and went with a used connecting rod. I had just learned about Ceratec and this blown ATV engine was just a perfect test bed.The parts cost was just $100 including the gasket kit.

I know without a doubt Ceratec works as Liquid Moly states it works. I know of no reason to not use it in a new engine because ceramic coated piston rings and pistons are sometimes placed in new engines.

If you have an engine that has rings that have to 'wear-in' due to friction you have a low quality finish on moving parts and must be using an old non-detergent stash of motor oil. smile

With that being said I would put 100-2000 miles on a new engine then change oil and add Ceratec to the new motor oil. This would let the moving parts like oil pump gears, gears, etc 'wear-in' and you could drain out any new engine metal.
 
Thanks guys, When I change the oil for the first time in my new to me 95 Electraglide I'm going to add the Ceratec. Clevy, in a 4 qt sump do you think 10 or 12 ozs would be about right? Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Thanks guys, When I change the oil for the first time in my new to me 95 Electraglide I'm going to add the Ceratec. Clevy, in a 4 qt sump do you think 10 or 12 ozs would be about right? Thanks



Hey gman


I think the can claims it's enough for 5 litres of oil,so if you've got 4 litres then 80% of the can should do.

From what I recall liqui-moly says that 6% of sump capacity is enough to be effective.

If anyone cares I pulled the plugs on my charger yesterday. I've had cera-tec in the sump for in excess of 15000 miles and the plugs are deposit free,which I feel is to be expected on an engine with 75000 miles.
And yesterday I took the plunge and changed the oil in the c3,as well as the plugs.
I put a can of cera-tec in with 5 litres of oil.
So let the testing begin. Oil was a mix of pp 5w-20 and castrol's 0w-40,a 50/50 mix to get near a 30 grade since I don't have any 5w-30 grades in my stash.
This far in the c3 I've noticed nothing but I've only got 100 miles on.
I'll start a thread to post any observations.
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Clevy, how many miles on the Ceratec in the Harley?


I put it in about 2000 miles after cams and big bore,so rough and tough about 8000 miles.
 
Clevy, How long do you run the initial fill with the Ceratec in the bike? Also how long should I go between changes? I also understand the filter should be of no less than a 15 micron. I'm leaning towards using the Valvoline 4t synthetic. Thanks
 
After the cam and big bore I did a couple of short runs with rotella,then I used motul 20w-50 on a 5000 mile run.
I suggest using the best oil you can and run it as long as you can to insure the plating effect is maximized.
The ceramic particles are minute,and the filter won't be able to catch them. From what I can recall from liqui-moly they are micron and sub-micron sized so nothing special is required.
I'd just use an oil that will last as long as possible. After that first run liqui-moly says 30000 miles before doing it again.

I've got no teardowns experience with cera-tec,but gale Hawkins does and his experience is pretty much exactly what liqui-moly says the stuff does.
I have torn down a 2v after using mos2 though,which is why I comment on those threads.
I've moly been using cera-tec for about a year,but I was using mos2 for many years and based on my experience with the products I've used I don't doubt a single word liqui-moly writes about their products.
I'm going to try mos2 after a wash out run of oil to see if there is any improvements to be had.
Ceratec leaves an extremely hard anti-wear layer behind so I'm wondering if a friction improvement can be measured after the ceramic layer is laid down.
Back on topic: just run the cera-tec as long as you can. I don't feel anything special needs to be done other than that.
Pm me if you've got anything specific. I'm glad to help if I can.
 
Changed the oil in my 2005 Chevy Avalanche 5.3 and added the Liqui-Moly Ceratec along with 5 and 3/4 qts of VWB 5w30. Leaving in the morning heading to Ocean Isle beach, NC for a week at the beach. The 200 mile drive tomorrow will give the Ceratec a chance to get blended good in the 166,000 mile 5.3. The Harley will be next when we return.
 
I have a brand new Ford Focus ST(turbocharged)rated at 250hp. When I reach 1500 miles, I will change the oil and add Ceratec. I emailed LM, and got an emphatic response to add the Ceratec ASAP. I'm waiting until first OC. I've had good results with MOS2, so I'm reasoning that the Ceratec with be even better for the new motor.
 
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