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#3366074 - 05/08/14 09:30 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: CentAmDL650]
LotI Offline


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 265
Loc: America's Dairyland
Originally Posted By: CentAmDL650
Do these still have gear driven cams? I recall some saying the older VFR models (80s) were some of the fastest to shear their oil out of grade. Is that the reasoning for selecting ester-based Redline (likely without VII's), because it won't shear?

And I agree on the wear levels - just outstanding for a hard-ridden tracked bike with that kind of mileage.

Chains from '02 on with the VTEC...I do miss the gear whine frown
_________________________
03 Honda VFR800VTEC .8L
04 Buick Rainier 4.2L
05 MINI Cooper S 1.6L
06 Ducati Monster S2R .8L
12 Ford E450 6.8L

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#3371602 - 05/14/14 03:30 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
29662 Offline


Registered: 05/14/14
Posts: 250
Loc: sc/fl
Thanks for posting the uoa. I hope my new (to me) 2003 vfr800 wears that well. I've got her filled with t6 and 2 ozs of redline break in additive, and a wix filter.

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#3372713 - 05/15/14 05:20 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
quarterliter Offline


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 169
Loc: Wisconsin
Why the break in additive?

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#3372951 - 05/15/14 11:36 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
29662 Offline


Registered: 05/14/14
Posts: 250
Loc: sc/fl
It brings up the zddp levels, makes for much smoother shifting as well as for added protection. A 16oz bottle will last for quite some time. I wouldn't use it in a bike that burns oil, because of added cylinder deposits, but mine doesn't burn any, so no problems there.

If you look at some of the better more expensive bike specific oils they usually have anywhere from 1700 ppm(mobil1) to 22-2400 ppm zinc levels(redline). I typically shoot for 1500-1700 ppm. works great.

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#3374625 - 05/18/14 08:13 AM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: 29662]
LotI Offline


Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 265
Loc: America's Dairyland
Originally Posted By: 29662
Thanks for posting the uoa. I hope my new (to me) 2003 vfr800 wears that well. I've got her filled with t6 and 2 ozs of redline break in additive, and a wix filter.

Does the bike still have a cat? Although there is no downstream o2 sensor like cars, I would be concerned about its health.
_________________________
03 Honda VFR800VTEC .8L
04 Buick Rainier 4.2L
05 MINI Cooper S 1.6L
06 Ducati Monster S2R .8L
12 Ford E450 6.8L

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#3374857 - 05/18/14 03:05 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: LotI]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 756
Loc: Florida /Texas
Yeah it has a cat and o2 sensors, zero cat issues, no black spooge out the exhaust.

I was concerned about the cat when the bike was new ( but valve longevity and decarbonization more so) so I guine pigged anyway, not having tested that fuel on a catted bike, but 100,000 mile later, no prob. Im pretty sure I can still pass a cat inspection, of course Id have to run several tanks of untreated fuel.

Now if you tried to run a full mixture, there near 5 grams of lead per gal, and That would cause 02 errors or plug up a cat. But I only use about a cup to 2 cups per tank, and it runs completely through the motor, you can see the grey lead oxides with bare metal underneath no spooge out the pipe and no carbon.

OH, I realized you talking about the redline additive, to me Id be concerned about to much zddp and plating or adhering to places that you don't want it, but as long as the bike isn't burning oil, it shouldn't bother the cat IMO. Course burning oil or running to rich kills far more cats, than anything else. Carbon blockage is their enemy.


Edited by Mackelroy (05/18/14 03:20 PM)

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#3375554 - 05/19/14 11:29 AM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: LotI]
29662 Offline


Registered: 05/14/14
Posts: 250
Loc: sc/fl
Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: 29662
Thanks for posting the uoa. I hope my new (to me) 2003 vfr800 wears that well. I've got her filled with t6 and 2 ozs of redline break in additive, and a wix filter.

Does the bike still have a cat? Although there is no downstream o2 sensor like cars, I would be concerned about its health.


It does have a cat. But it doesn't burn any appreciable amount of oil so that shouldn't make a difference to the cat. Other MC specific oil have the same amount of ZDDP or higher so I'm not particularly worried. Besides if the cat does go it will be a good excuse to put in a "new" exhaust system.

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#3378075 - 05/22/14 07:49 AM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 756
Loc: Florida /Texas
Some may be wondering why the lead count jumped with redline over the other 2 uoa's.

On the early uoa's there was a lot of distance riding being done, so lead injections were fewer, missing a tank or two in between.

I'll do another uoa on this Valvoline 10w40 and if the lead count is not in the same area, then that would suggest the redline is eating lead film off of parts.

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#3378146 - 05/22/14 09:35 AM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1616
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
what would you deem to be within the same area?
just curious.
as i have seen lead levels vary greatly even when using 100% of the same exact fuel from the same exact barrel and within 30min of the same amount of motor run time.
_________________________
motorcycle oil myth buster

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#3378714 - 05/22/14 08:32 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: sunruh]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 756
Loc: Florida /Texas
well I would expect to see over 100 to be in the same range. If I saw something like 50 or 20 average as previous 2 uoa's, that would be suspect. I guess you would have to look at it percentage wise to be in a range. I think that you mentioned 350 or 400 average on 2 to 3 gals fuel, with a high of 650, that's 50% or so variance range.

Im just reasoning the 500% jump, most of it via what I mentioned about missing injections compared to nowadays. But if I saw a real significant drop with another UOA, then Im thinking redline might have been seeking out the lead. The thought also stems from Redline being one of the strongest cleaning oils on the market.

I'll have to do another Uoa to quelch that question.

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#3379532 - 05/23/14 07:34 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
CentAmDL650 Offline


Registered: 06/11/13
Posts: 58
Loc: FL
So how would you know if your bearings were getting ate up - as opposed to just getting leaded fuel dilution from blowby? Wouldn't you likely have a solution masking a potential problem on a UOA especially if you were cranking on the revs? Can bearing wear be attributed to a rise in some other elements in a UOA that also track with bearing wear (like copper, tin, aluminum, indium, gallium, etc)?

And I thought for trackers UCL's have replaced leaded gas for keeping your valves from eroding the seats. Don't some of the racers use TC-W3 or more exotic 2-cycle pre-mixes for UCL? Or are these really not so longetivity-oriented, maybe they're O2 sensor/ cat killers so only a consideration with dedicated racers? I've tried MMO and now Motul power jet, but I'm not pushing it like you, just looking at it from a commuter/ sport tourer point of view.

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#3380082 - 05/24/14 02:32 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: CentAmDL650]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 756
Loc: Florida /Texas
Actually the first uoa at 20 ppm lead, Blackstone was very concerned about the (lead), till they found out leaded race fuel was being used.

How do I know lead bearings are not being eaten, well, the running condition is mint and smooth, no degrade since new that I can tell. I'll see how it looks at 200,000 miles.

Im more wondering if the redline was cleaning more at the lead than a typical oil would, its probably not and all related to the increase in Lead injections(which is a known factor to cause an increase), but I'll run another uao just to see with this valvoline 10w40 shows in the same range.

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#3381998 - 05/27/14 08:13 AM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1616
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
an IF someone else has run the same oil for the same distance (possibly even in the same motor) and come up with zero lead, then its at least not the oil. same if someone has run redline and seen lead, but not used leaded fuel. which is prolly easier to find.
the stoners have a hard time reading the info you put on the data sheet you send in. and by reading i mean comphrehension. leaded fuel usually confuses them and most on here, which is why i stopped posting my results.
_________________________
motorcycle oil myth buster

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#3382357 - 05/27/14 06:25 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: Mackelroy]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 756
Loc: Florida /Texas
When it comes to running 2 stroke oil in four strokes and momo, that's all snake oil to me, Id need to see some results internally. The first time I ever used leaded race fuel was on a Dual sport. It had a screen in the muffler that required cleaning every 11,000 miles to decarbon, and it was pretty carboned. 1/2 a tank of leaded race fuel, not only cleaned that screen completely , it decarboned the entire exhaust system. Yeah I was shocked, and I've never seen any snake oil product that can do that , especially 2 stroke oil in any motor.

The lead when it combusts it creates little snowflakes, these flakes swirl and decarbon everything, valves piston head, spark plugs ect, this also gives a powered cushion to valves. I think someone mentioned hardened valve seats. Hardened valve seats may have aided softer valve seat wear, but did nothing for motorcycle valve recession, it still abundantly exists across the board.

If you've ever shot lead bullets, they leave a lubricative film in the rifle bore, course sometimes its more than you want, but the point is, lead will leave that lubricative film on motor parts too.

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#3382390 - 05/27/14 07:23 PM Re: Redline 10w30/ 20w50 2006 VFR800 [Re: sunruh]
Mackelroy Offline


Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 756
Loc: Florida /Texas
In blackstones defense, the first time they just didn't know about the fuel, cause I didn't tell them, I did the second run, cause they seemed kind of frantic, on the first one, and they relaxed completely after that. you notice they didn't even blink at the 183 after knowing.

It really sounded like I guy the same guy doing the uoa, from years back.







Edited by Mackelroy (05/27/14 07:24 PM)

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