Best Oil, Additive after desludging 2001 VW 2.8

[tommymac]

Long time lurker, 1st real post here.
I am in the process of desludging a 2001 VW Passat. The car has 163,000 miles, I've owned it for 10,000 miles (4 oil changes in that time) and it's had Castrol 5W-30 since new, however some OCI's have been obviously to long. The car had intermittent Low Oil Pressure warnings due to the sludge, and the breather hoses and VC exit ports were plugged. During this process I have removed and cleaned the VC's, Oil Pan and Oil Pump. I've also cleaned up the heads and cams, while still on engine. I also plan on replacing all of the breather hoses and vacuum lines. I also hope to stop all of the oil leaks, VC gaskets, CCT seals, Cam caps etc.

OK here is my dilemma. When I get this thing back together, I will have removed most of the major sludge, however there is still going to be some awfully dirty internals, bearings and journals, piston rings, intake etc. What would be a good choice for a 1st oil, with cleaning in mind? How about a cleaner/additive? Right now I am thinking of using Rotella T6 5W-40 or M1 High Milage 5W-30 with a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. (5.4L sump). I plan on changing the filter (Wix) when I see the oil becoming slightly dirty then again when it starts to turn a dark brown. Hoping to put about 2000 miles on the 1st oil. I am then debating between M1 0W-40 for import cars, M1 5W-30 High Millage and Rotella T-6 as the go to oil. Do I have a good plan? What would you put in 'er? I know that Auto-RX is a fan favorite as well, but I do have the MMO handy.

Thanks in advance for your time.

BTW, just what exactly is a piston soak?

 

[possum328]

Welcome fellow Minnesotan! Glad to have you, you're gonna love it here.

 

[Rand]

I'd just use 15w40 since its spring/summer, dont go too strong on the MMO
it will REALLY thin your oil out.

LC20 and autoRX are somewhat proven..

I'd probably just use a proven oil and somewhat short OCI's
although a half quart of mmo shouldnt hurt anything. I have not seen any strong evidence that shows it dissolves sludge anymore than regular oil.

 

[dparm]

I think any VW 502 oil will work just fine. I don't see the need for additives.

Rotella T6 is a good alternative if you don't think you need the formal mfg approvals.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: tommymac
Long time lurker, 1st real post here.
I am in the process of desludging a 2001 VW Passat. The car has 163,000 miles, I've owned it for 10,000 miles (4 oil changes in that time) and it's had Castrol 5W-30 since new, however some OCI's have been obviously to long. The car had intermittent Low Oil Pressure warnings due to the sludge, and the breather hoses and VC exit ports were plugged. During this process I have removed and cleaned the VC's, Oil Pan and Oil Pump. I've also cleaned up the heads and cams, while still on engine. I also plan on replacing all of the breather hoses and vacuum lines. I also hope to stop all of the oil leaks, VC gaskets, CCT seals, Cam caps etc.

OK here is my dilemma. When I get this thing back together, I will have removed most of the major sludge, however there is still going to be some awfully dirty internals, bearings and journals, piston rings, intake etc. What would be a good choice for a 1st oil, with cleaning in mind? How about a cleaner/additive? Right now I am thinking of using Rotella T6 5W-40 or M1 High Milage 5W-30 with a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. (5.4L sump). I plan on changing the filter (Wix) when I see the oil becoming slightly dirty then again when it starts to turn a dark brown. Hoping to put about 2000 miles on the 1st oil. I am then debating between M1 0W-40 for import cars, M1 5W-30 High Millage and Rotella T-6 as the go to oil. Do I have a good plan? What would you put in 'er? I know that Auto-RX is a fan favorite as well, but I do have the MMO handy.

Thanks in advance for your time.

BTW, just what exactly is a piston soak?


Quality synthetic oil. Leave the MMO out of the crankcase.

 

[demarpaint]

Pick your favorite oil and substitute 20% of oil with 20% MMO, then run it for about 1,500-2,000 miles. After you change that out run your favorite oil and filter. At about 1,000 miles before the end of that OCI add a pint of MMO. Change the oil when the interval is up. You should be GTG.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: tommymac
Long time lurker, 1st real post here.
I am in the process of desludging a 2001 VW Passat. The car has 163,000 miles, I've owned it for 10,000 miles (4 oil changes in that time) and it's had Castrol 5W-30 since new, however some OCI's have been obviously to long. The car had intermittent Low Oil Pressure warnings due to the sludge, and the breather hoses and VC exit ports were plugged. During this process I have removed and cleaned the VC's, Oil Pan and Oil Pump. I've also cleaned up the heads and cams, while still on engine. I also plan on replacing all of the breather hoses and vacuum lines. I also hope to stop all of the oil leaks, VC gaskets, CCT seals, Cam caps etc.

OK here is my dilemma. When I get this thing back together, I will have removed most of the major sludge, however there is still going to be some awfully dirty internals, bearings and journals, piston rings, intake etc. What would be a good choice for a 1st oil, with cleaning in mind? How about a cleaner/additive? Right now I am thinking of using Rotella T6 5W-40 or M1 High Milage 5W-30 with a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. (5.4L sump). I plan on changing the filter (Wix) when I see the oil becoming slightly dirty then again when it starts to turn a dark brown. Hoping to put about 2000 miles on the 1st oil. I am then debating between M1 0W-40 for import cars, M1 5W-30 High Millage and Rotella T-6 as the go to oil. Do I have a good plan? What would you put in 'er? I know that Auto-RX is a fan favorite as well, but I do have the MMO handy.

Thanks in advance for your time.

BTW, just what exactly is a piston soak?


IMO, culprit behind sludge is that Castrol 5W30. It is probably regular Castrol 5W30, ACEA A1, A5, not approved for VW. It is not same quality as Castrol 0W30 (popular GC), or T6, or M1 0W40 etc.
This is what I would do:
1. After you clean engine, get ONLY APPROVED VW 502.00 oil. Do not mix anything with it, no additives etc.
2. I would go to Wal mart and get Castrol 0W40 or M1 0W40. I would stay away from GC 0W30 since that engine is known for leaking gaskets etc, so you need bit thicker oil on operating temperatures. Both Castrol 0W40 and M1 0W40 are 13.5cst. Put that in and see.
3. If car starts to burn oil, or leak, switch to T6.
4. STAY AWAY from 5W30 oils that you can get in Wal Mart, Auto Zone etc, that are designed for American or Japanese cars. Use ONLY oils that carry VW 502.00 and/or VW 505.01 approval, or in worst case scenario, Shell T6. If you use again regular 5W30 (which are too thin for 90% of Euro cars, most definitely for Passat 2.8 V6) you will be again at squer one, cleaning engine from sludge.

I used T6 in my friends car, because she would forget to check oil. I would put in GC (Passat 1.8T) but her driving habits were horrible (though her flower on dashboard was always in perfect condition) and I decided to go with T6. It lowered consumption of oil a lot.

 

[nolesfan]

As a fellow VW owner with friends that have experience with the 2.8 (I had the 1.8T Passat), you do not have to run a VW 502 spec oil. That's for warranty purposes, which your car is no longer under. I'd personally run Rotella T6 and call it a day. I don't recall the oil capacity of the 2.8, but if you really want to use MMO, I'd use at least the gallon jug of Rotella, and top off with MMO. I honestly think you'd be more than ok just using the full capacity of Rotella, run it for 2k miles, then change oil and filter again, then just run 5k mile intervals.

This engine does not have the sludge notoriety the 1.8T had (which I never experienced in mine).

 

[gregk24]

I would g with M1 0w40 for thw life of the car

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: nolesfan
As a fellow VW owner with friends that have experience with the 2.8 (I had the 1.8T Passat), you do not have to run a VW 502 spec oil. That's for warranty purposes, which your car is no longer under. I'd personally run Rotella T6 and call it a day. I don't recall the oil capacity of the 2.8, but if you really want to use MMO, I'd use at least the gallon jug of Rotella, and top off with MMO. I honestly think you'd be more than ok just using the full capacity of Rotella, run it for 2k miles, then change oil and filter again, then just run 5k mile intervals.

This engine does not have the sludge notoriety the 1.8T had (which I never experienced in mine).

I never had sludge issues with 1.8T, but then, I always used GC.
I think T6 would be good option, but I would still go with 0W40 Castrol or M1. If there is a problem with those oils, I would then switch to T6.
What I noticed with T6 in 1.8T, is that it is more sluggish when it comes to turbo spool then M1 and especially GC. But I would stay away from GC because of leaking issues that V6 is known to have.

 

[nolesfan]

I never had sludge issues with mine, but I think most people that had sludged 1.8 cars probably had the earlier years, pre- synthetic oil requirement. Before VW said it was ok to do 5k mile OCI, no mention of synthetic. I had my valve cover off a couple times, and even at 120k miles, the head and cover were very very slightly varnished. Not bad. I used M1 0w40 or Castrol Syntec 0w30/5w40 mostly.

I'm using Castrol Edge 0w40 now in the GLI with great MPGs, though at 12k miles, it's hardly old enough to have issues. As edyvw mentioned, either of these oils should do well, I just mentioned T6 due to price. I'd stay away from M1 due to it's disappearing characteristics in some cars (but also wouldn't be afraid to run it, just check levels more often).

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: nolesfan
I never had sludge issues with mine, but I think most people that had sludged 1.8 cars probably had the earlier years, pre- synthetic oil requirement. Before VW said it was ok to do 5k mile OCI, no mention of synthetic. I had my valve cover off a couple times, and even at 120k miles, the head and cover were very very slightly varnished. Not bad. I used M1 0w40 or Castrol Syntec 0w30/5w40 mostly.

I'm using Castrol Edge 0w40 now in the GLI with great MPGs, though at 12k miles, it's hardly old enough to have issues. As edyvw mentioned, either of these oils should do well, I just mentioned T6 due to price. I'd stay away from M1 due to it's disappearing characteristics in some cars (but also wouldn't be afraid to run it, just check levels more often).

Yeah, I never was big fan of M1 0W40. My UOA in 2.0TSI showed that M1 0W40 stayed in weight range (it dropped only to 13.3 after 5.100 miles) but TBN went down from 11.3 to 2.6, which is ridiculous. T6 is cheap, but then, M1 and Castrol 0W40 are actually cheaper for 5 quart at Wal Mart.
You could do us all favor and do UOA on Castrol 0W40

 

[nolesfan]

I actually probably will once the free dealer oil changes are over (10k, 20k, and 30k intervals). I'm using Castrol Edge 0w40, but they use Castrol Edge OE Professional 5w40 (something like that) in the gold bottle. I don't want to risk inaccurate numbers by having some left over oil in there. I'm doing 5k mile changes at home.

 

[tommymac]

Thank you for the welcome and the good comments. Not sure if I'm more confused now or not.

Originally Posted By: dparm
I think any VW 502 oil will work just fine. I don't see the need for additives.

Rotella T6 is a good alternative if you don't think you need the formal mfg approvals.

I do plan on eventually using a VW 502 oil but I am really concerned about the dirty condition of the engine right now and would like to use a high quality engine cleaning type of oil. As long as the consensus is that the T6 wont do any harm I think I will go that way.

Originally Posted By: Rand
LC20 and autoRX are somewhat proven..

I hadn't heard of LC20 before, can you share more info about it? I did look at 1 review on amazon, but there was only one.

Originally Posted By: Donald
Quality synthetic oil. Leave the MMO out of the crankcase.

I see from your signiture you are using the Rotella T6 in your 2001 Jeep. It's nice to see I'm not nuts for thinking of putting a Diesel motor oil in my gas engine. Any particular reason you are using this VS other good quality oil? I also see your not a big fan of MMO. Does that go for all additives designed for cleaning or do you have a go to product for cleaning things up? I also realize it's not necissary if the car has been properly cared for but this one has not been.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Pick your favorite oil and substitute 20% of oil with 20% MMO, then run it for about 1,500-2,000 miles. After you change that out run your favorite oil and filter. At about 1,000 miles before the end of that OCI add a pint of MMO. Change the oil when the interval is up. You should be GTG.

Thumbs up for a MMO fan. Have you used this strategy in the past? I was actually thinking about doing this. However when the second oil is ready for a change I was going to dump in a can of BG-109 Compression Performance Restoration in.

How about BG products in general. Opinions?

Originally Posted By: edyvw
IMO, culprit behind sludge is that Castrol 5W30. It is probably regular Castrol 5W30, ACEA A1, A5, not approved for VW. It is not same quality as Castrol 0W30 (popular GC), or T6, or M1 0W40 etc.
This is what I would do:
1. After you clean engine, get ONLY APPROVED VW 502.00 oil. Do not mix anything with it, no additives etc.
2. I would go to Wal mart and get Castrol 0W40 or M1 0W40. I would stay away from GC 0W30 since that engine is known for leaking gaskets etc, so you need bit thicker oil on operating temperatures. Both Castrol 0W40 and M1 0W40 are 13.5cst. Put that in and see.
3. If car starts to burn oil, or leak, switch to T6.
4. STAY AWAY from 5W30 oils that you can get in Wal Mart, Auto Zone etc, that are designed for American or Japanese cars. Use ONLY oils that carry VW 502.00 and/or VW 505.01 approval, or in worst case scenario, Shell T6. If you use again regular 5W30 (which are too thin for 90% of Euro cars, most definitely for Passat 2.8 V6) you will be again at squer one, cleaning engine from sludge.

You nailed it! The people I bought the car from had most all oil changes done at the dealer and had receipts. The dealer always put in Castrol 5W-30 dyno. They had said over the last 25-30 K they had it changed at other places/no receipts. Well I don't thinks so. (hind sight 20/20) After learning about oil requirments for these cars I was shocked to know that a VW dealer had put that [censored] (I know this now) in the car for 120K+. I would like to get back to a VW-502 spec oil eventually. I just don't think they would have the cleaning attributes of the T6. Maybe the T-6 is what I should run in this thing permanently.
How do you like the Tiguan? I am thinking of maybe picking up a used one. Can you give me some insight as to which engine, MY, etc. The older the better for me.

Thanks again to all. I will keep this up to date with what I decided and how it goes.

 

[threeputtpar]

My suggestion would be to go with M1 HM 10W-30 or 10W-40 in the summer and then M1 HM 5W-30 in the winter until the sludge is cleaned out. Then switch to M1 0W-40 and call it a day.

For the filter, are you using the Wix 51355 or the Wix 51393? Save either of those for after the sludge is gone and go with the Wix 51191 as it's much bigger. Or the Fram PH3569 is the same as the Wix 51191 and cheaper, since you are pulling them after 2k miles. STP S3569 from Autozone is also a good one for cleaning runs.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: tommymac
Thank you for the welcome and the good comments. Not sure if I'm more confused now or not.

Originally Posted By: dparm
I think any VW 502 oil will work just fine. I don't see the need for additives.

Rotella T6 is a good alternative if you don't think you need the formal mfg approvals.

I do plan on eventually using a VW 502 oil but I am really concerned about the dirty condition of the engine right now and would like to use a high quality engine cleaning type of oil. As long as the consensus is that the T6 wont do any harm I think I will go that way.

Originally Posted By: Rand
LC20 and autoRX are somewhat proven..

I hadn't heard of LC20 before, can you share more info about it? I did look at 1 review on amazon, but there was only one.

Originally Posted By: Donald
Quality synthetic oil. Leave the MMO out of the crankcase.

I see from your signiture you are using the Rotella T6 in your 2001 Jeep. It's nice to see I'm not nuts for thinking of putting a Diesel motor oil in my gas engine. Any particular reason you are using this VS other good quality oil? I also see your not a big fan of MMO. Does that go for all additives designed for cleaning or do you have a go to product for cleaning things up? I also realize it's not necissary if the car has been properly cared for but this one has not been.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Pick your favorite oil and substitute 20% of oil with 20% MMO, then run it for about 1,500-2,000 miles. After you change that out run your favorite oil and filter. At about 1,000 miles before the end of that OCI add a pint of MMO. Change the oil when the interval is up. You should be GTG.

Thumbs up for a MMO fan. Have you used this strategy in the past? I was actually thinking about doing this. However when the second oil is ready for a change I was going to dump in a can of BG-109 Compression Performance Restoration in.

How about BG products in general. Opinions?

Originally Posted By: edyvw
IMO, culprit behind sludge is that Castrol 5W30. It is probably regular Castrol 5W30, ACEA A1, A5, not approved for VW. It is not same quality as Castrol 0W30 (popular GC), or T6, or M1 0W40 etc.
This is what I would do:
1. After you clean engine, get ONLY APPROVED VW 502.00 oil. Do not mix anything with it, no additives etc.
2. I would go to Wal mart and get Castrol 0W40 or M1 0W40. I would stay away from GC 0W30 since that engine is known for leaking gaskets etc, so you need bit thicker oil on operating temperatures. Both Castrol 0W40 and M1 0W40 are 13.5cst. Put that in and see.
3. If car starts to burn oil, or leak, switch to T6.
4. STAY AWAY from 5W30 oils that you can get in Wal Mart, Auto Zone etc, that are designed for American or Japanese cars. Use ONLY oils that carry VW 502.00 and/or VW 505.01 approval, or in worst case scenario, Shell T6. If you use again regular 5W30 (which are too thin for 90% of Euro cars, most definitely for Passat 2.8 V6) you will be again at squer one, cleaning engine from sludge.

You nailed it! The people I bought the car from had most all oil changes done at the dealer and had receipts. The dealer always put in Castrol 5W-30 dyno. They had said over the last 25-30 K they had it changed at other places/no receipts. Well I don't thinks so. (hind sight 20/20) After learning about oil requirments for these cars I was shocked to know that a VW dealer had put that [censored] (I know this now) in the car for 120K+. I would like to get back to a VW-502 spec oil eventually. I just don't think they would have the cleaning attributes of the T6. Maybe the T-6 is what I should run in this thing permanently.
How do you like the Tiguan? I am thinking of maybe picking up a used one. Can you give me some insight as to which engine, MY, etc. The older the better for me.

Thanks again to all. I will keep this up to date with what I decided and how it goes.




I am not sure that you will do better by using T6 then M1 or Castrol 0W40. All those oils have superb cleaning capabilities. I would stay away from these 5W30 or 10W30 oils for high mileage cars. Euro cars are running hot, they are hard on oil (that engine is not as hard as 1.8T, but still...).

On other note, Tiguan is great. I got used one last year when I lived in San Diego, went all they way to VA to get it, since it was only SEL I found on internet with mileage below 20K. We got it because we were moving to Colorado, and wife hates driving in snow. It is really good car. Feels like GTI among those small SUV's. We tried Toyota RAV4 and driving Toyota RAV after Tiguan is like driving peace of plastic. Tiguan's only comes with 2.0TSI engine, which works perfectly on high altitude. We ski a lot, so I put dedicated winter tires on Tig, and although AWD is not hard core, it is just simple Haldex system, it goes like crazy through deep snow etc.
There is plenty space in it, but trunk is small. So if you want to load big stuff, you need to lower back seats, then it turns into really big space. I would say my trunk in CC is like 4-5 times larger then in Tig.
Also, if you get it, those TSI engines are really hard on oil, they tend to develop carbon deposits on valves, so best way to go is to use VW 504.00/507.00 oils, but those are Low-SAPS oils, and high sulphur in US. gas tends to kill TBN in oils. So far this M1 5W30ESP I use is good. I will do UOA at 5K (did at 3.3K and turned OK).

 

[riggaz]

If you have hard baked on sludge in your engine you are going to need to clean it out slowly because if you use a strong flush like the BG109 or the MMO you could release big lumps of sludge which can block an oil ways, this is obviously vary bad depending on which one it is.

Use a fully synthetic oil, either the 502.00 oils or Rotella etc. and just halve your OCI. Do that and forget you have sludge in there, as long as you let the oil remove it gently and naturally you'll be ok and never have to worry.

 

[tommymac]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
the filter, are you using the Wix 51355 or the Wix 51393? Save either of those for after the sludge is gone and go with the Wix 51191 as it's much bigger. Or the Fram PH3569 is the same as the Wix 51191 and cheaper, since you are pulling them after 2k miles. STP S3569 from Autozone is also a good one for cleaning runs.

Thanks for that info, I find it very valuable. The Wix I have now is the 51355. I have also ordered a Mann OEM. I will pick up one of the larger capacity filters for the 1st run once I get the car back together.
Originally Posted By: dparm
I think any VW 502 oil will work just fine. I don't see the need for additives.

Rotella T6 is a good alternative if you don't think you need the formal mfg approvals.

Originally Posted By: Donald
synthetic oil. Leave the MMO out of the crankcase.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
am not sure that you will do better by using T6 then M1 or Castrol 0W40. All those oils have superb cleaning capabilities.

Despite my earlier desire to put some MMO in the motor, I have reconsidered at least for now. Perhaps I will put some in for the last couple of hundred miles before the next OCI. AFTER I feel it has cleaned up by just using....Wait for it...T-6.
This is actually my Sons car; poor broke collage student (parents are broke too). and it usually gets a lot of miles in the summer. I am thinking the oil will be changed at least twice before he goes back to school in the fall. By then it will have the M1 or Castrol 0W-40 in it.
I really think this has come to a conclusion in my mind but I can't help thinking about Auto-RX. Perhaps the way it works by SLOWLY helping with the desludging. Maybe not in the 1st batch of oil but the 2nd batch of T-6?
Anyway. Thanks again to all who have helped me work this out. My brain is happier now.

BTW-edyvw I have been a long time Colorado visiter. The 1st time back in the early 70's backpacking up around Pikes Peak. Most recently in '06 camping with our 5th wheel. My wife has relatives in CO. Springs. Back in the day I did a lot of Downhilling but that was then, my knees can't take the stress anymore. I never did get the Opportunity to ski CO. however I still get this strong urge to head for Beaver Creek and strap 'em on one more time.

 

[ac_tc]

My vote.
- a general flush with the cheapest oil you stand to use.
Run it warm at varying speed to flush it, say 20 minute drive around the block.
- Dump the flush and change filter.
Use hdeo of your favourite flavour and now comes my suggestion:
Use a quart of redline 10w-30 oil as an additive, its full of esters and will enhance the hdeo´s cleaning abbility.
Once this brew has become pitch black its time for a change again.
This engine isnt hard on oil like someone mentioned.

 

[tommymac]

Originally Posted By: ac_tc
My vote.
- a general flush with the cheapest oil you stand to use.
Run it warm at varying speed to flush it, say 20 minute drive around the block.
- Dump the flush and change filter.
Use hdeo of your favourite flavour and now comes my suggestion:
Use a quart of redline 10w-30 oil as an additive, its full of esters and will enhance the hdeo´s cleaning abbility.
Once this brew has become pitch black its time for a change again.
This engine isnt hard on oil like someone mentioned.


Ya Thanks. My local O'Reilly has Quaker State 5W-30 for $16.00/5qt. 'was thinking to dump this in and putting 10 miles on it then change to the T-6 with a new filter. I think it would go a long way to helping the Rotella last longer.