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#3359504 - 05/02/14 05:18 AM Amsoil CVT Fluid
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46556
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Quote:
New CVT Fluid Expands Market for Dealers

Posted: May 1, 2014 - New Product

AMSOIL Synthetic CVT Fluid (CVT) provides outstanding protection and performance for continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) throughout vehicle manufacturer-recommended drain intervals. Its exceptional metal-to-metal frictional properties help prevent belt and chain slipping for smooth, trouble-free operation. AMSOIL CVT Fluid resists oxidation and wear for maximum CVT life. It provides excellent wet-clutch performance for outstanding anti-shudder durability and reduced noise and vibration. AMSOIL CVT Fluid is Warranty Secure and will not void vehicle warranties.

The top markets for AMSOIL CVT Fluid include independent transmission shops, independent auto repair shops (especially those specializing in Asian vehicles) and do-it-yourselfers. With vehicle-manufacturer-branded fluids often costing $20 or more a quart and very few competing products on the market, AMSOIL CVT Fluid offers a cost-effective, premium-quality alternative, saving customers money and allowing higher profit margins for installers.


Amsoil CVT

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#3359568 - 05/02/14 07:47 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
OldSparks Offline


Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 137
Loc: Upper Kanuckistan
Good to know. I will be changing my CVT fluid this summer...

Thanx

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#3359584 - 05/02/14 08:14 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
rshaw125 Offline


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 2478
Loc: Raleigh ,NC CSA
$13.70 a quart. wow.
_________________________
2012 Porsche Carrera S
1995 Plymouth Voyager

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#3359609 - 05/02/14 08:43 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12366
Loc: Chicago, IL
Awesome. How about some dual-clutch fluid too? :-)
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#3359632 - 05/02/14 09:01 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: rshaw125]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 6105
Loc: Onondaga County
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
$13.70 a quart. wow.


I believe Nissan charges $40 a quart or something even higher.
_________________________
'11 Focus PYB 45K
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#3359634 - 05/02/14 09:02 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 5374
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I wonder how different the CVT fluid is compared to tractor fluild? Seems to have all the same basic requirements, with friction modifiers to prevent wet brake and clutch chatter.
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07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 80km M1 5W20
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#3359641 - 05/02/14 09:11 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
901Memphis Online   content


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 4924
Loc: Northern Kentucky
I've always wondered why amsoil didn't have a cvt flui, iI guess it was in the works.

Pretty ridiculous how much some of the oem cvt fluid is.
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1999 Ford Taurus 145k (Vulcan v6) - Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 | FL400S
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#3359670 - 05/02/14 09:40 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Miller88]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17562
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
$13.70 a quart. wow.


I believe Nissan charges $40 a quart or something even higher.


The Nissan stuff is somewhere in the $15-$20/qt range. Not too bad.

Considering that Nissan extended the warranty on these units to 10/120k, using an aftermarket fluid is not something that should be done without some thought.

What color is this fluid? Does it at least match the same color as the OEM fluid?

Despite the wear comparison on the page, I am still a bit skeptical of this fluid given the wide range of applications that it is suitable for.

CVTs live-and-die by the correct fluid -- the belts are HIGHLY dependent upon very specific frictional properties in order to survive.

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#3359674 - 05/02/14 09:42 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: 901Memphis]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17562
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I've always wondered why amsoil didn't have a cvt flui, iI guess it was in the works.

Pretty ridiculous how much some of the oem cvt fluid is.


One of the Amsoil engineers once told me that the CVT is "dead," and stepped gear automatics are taking over the market. Of course, he is clearly wrong again...

The OEM CVT fluids really aren't that much more expensive. Most of them are lifetime fill anyway and should last 120k +.

Even the Nissan CVT fluid life monitor rarely asks for a change during the term of most ownerships.

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#3359691 - 05/02/14 10:07 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: The Critic]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 6105
Loc: Onondaga County
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
$13.70 a quart. wow.


I believe Nissan charges $40 a quart or something even higher.


The Nissan stuff is somewhere in the $15-$20/qt range. Not too bad.

Considering that Nissan extended the warranty on these units to 10/120k, using an aftermarket fluid is not something that should be done without some thought.

What color is this fluid? Does it at least match the same color as the OEM fluid?

Despite the wear comparison on the page, I am still a bit skeptical of this fluid given the wide range of applications that it is suitable for.

CVTs live-and-die by the correct fluid -- the belts are HIGHLY dependent upon very specific frictional properties in order to survive.


Dealer markup maybe? I have heard of $400 CVT fluid changes at the dealer.

$400 for a fluid change, and they still won't go 100K miles without failing.
_________________________
'11 Focus PYB 45K
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#3360234 - 05/02/14 09:30 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: The Critic]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46556
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Does it at least match the same color as the OEM fluid?



You do know that oil color is from an oil soluble dye? Color doesn't matter.

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#3360375 - 05/03/14 02:29 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: The Critic]
Unicorn01 Offline


Registered: 06/01/12
Posts: 16
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
$13.70 a quart. wow.


I believe Nissan charges $40 a quart or something even higher.


The Nissan stuff is somewhere in the $15-$20/qt range. Not too bad.

Considering that Nissan extended the warranty on these units to 10/120k, using an aftermarket fluid is not something that should be done without some thought.

What color is this fluid? Does it at least match the same color as the OEM fluid?

Despite the wear comparison on the page, I am still a bit skeptical of this fluid given the wide range of applications that it is suitable for.

CVTs live-and-die by the correct fluid -- the belts are HIGHLY dependent upon very specific frictional properties in order to survive.


I'm assuming the color is to make it harder for the dealer or factory to say you used the wrong fluid?

Nissan dropped their warranty back to the 60k miles in 2012 I think it was. They became confident in their CVT I guess.

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#3360504 - 05/03/14 08:11 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
ProStreetCamaro Offline


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 579
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Does it at least match the same color as the OEM fluid?



You do know that oil color is from an oil soluble dye? Color doesn't matter.



Until it is warranty time then it raises a red flag. If it matched then they wouldn't think anything of it. The 2013+ pathfinder and infiniti JX35/QX60 both use a new cvt and tons of people are having shudder problems and nissan seems to not be able to figure out a fix for it. My wifes new QX60 only has around 400 miles on it. I thought about switching to the amsoil cvt but wont out of fear they will deny warranty if she develops the shudder problem.

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#3360512 - 05/03/14 08:21 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: ProStreetCamaro]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46556
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Does it at least match the same color as the OEM fluid?



You do know that oil color is from an oil soluble dye? Color doesn't matter.



Until it is warranty time then it raises a red flag. If it matched then they wouldn't think anything of it. The 2013+ pathfinder and infiniti JX35/QX60 both use a new cvt and tons of people are having shudder problems and nissan seems to not be able to figure out a fix for it. My wifes new QX60 only has around 400 miles on it. I thought about switching to the amsoil cvt but wont out of fear they will deny warranty if she develops the shudder problem.


If they deny warranty for using a correct aftermarket fluid, they will be in violation of USA law. Amsoil CVT will not in any way violate your warranty. Color does not matter.

I understand your automobile is a huge investment. I think this is why I would want something better than the Nissan NS-2.
The shudder is fluid related:

Quote:
In the JASO LVFA Anti-Shudder Durability Test, AMSOIL CVT Fluid lasted six times longer, translating into improved anti-shudder durability and reduced noise, vibration and harshness.

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#3360567 - 05/03/14 09:53 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
ProStreetCamaro Offline


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 579
Loc: MD
The new CVT uses NS-3. This is what the amsoil site says




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#3360634 - 05/03/14 12:11 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46556
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
I didn't know we are talking 2014. Thanks.

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#3360642 - 05/03/14 12:29 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
ProStreetCamaro Offline


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 579
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I didn't know we are talking 2014. Thanks.



2013 pathfinder and jx35 uses the same cvt as the 2014 pathfinder and QX60 (QX60 is the new name for the JX35). So maybe amsoil just hasn't tested and verified that the new fluid will work correctly with these new cvt's? I would love to hear that the new amsoil cvt fluid meets or exceeds specs and wont void the warranty because I would switch it right away while it is still new.


Edited by ProStreetCamaro (05/03/14 12:32 PM)

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#3360651 - 05/03/14 12:43 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46556
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
I have asked Amsoil Tech.

Is Nissan officially saying NS-3 can be used in place of NS-2 in earlier NS-2 applications? Google provided no authoritative answer.

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#3360671 - 05/03/14 01:25 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
ProStreetCamaro Offline


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 579
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I have asked Amsoil Tech.

Is Nissan officially saying NS-3 can be used in place of NS-2 in earlier NS-2 applications? Google provided no authoritative answer.


That is a good question. I know her new car specs NS-3 but doesnt say anything about the previous NS-2



The manual says

" Use only Genuine NISSAN CVT Fluid NS-3. Using transmission fluid other than Genuine NISSAN CVT Fluid NS-3 will damage the CVT, which is not covered by the NISSAN new vehicle limited warranty."


Edited by ProStreetCamaro (05/03/14 01:35 PM)

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#3361068 - 05/03/14 10:46 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17562
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Does it at least match the same color as the OEM fluid?



You do know that oil color is from an oil soluble dye? Color doesn't matter.



Until it is warranty time then it raises a red flag. If it matched then they wouldn't think anything of it. The 2013+ pathfinder and infiniti JX35/QX60 both use a new cvt and tons of people are having shudder problems and nissan seems to not be able to figure out a fix for it. My wifes new QX60 only has around 400 miles on it. I thought about switching to the amsoil cvt but wont out of fear they will deny warranty if she develops the shudder problem.


If they deny warranty for using a correct aftermarket fluid, they will be in violation of USA law. Amsoil CVT will not in any way violate your warranty. Color does not matter.

I understand your automobile is a huge investment. I think this is why I would want something better than the Nissan NS-2.
The shudder is fluid related:

Quote:
In the JASO LVFA Anti-Shudder Durability Test, AMSOIL CVT Fluid lasted six times longer, translating into improved anti-shudder durability and reduced noise, vibration and harshness.


Typical Amsoil salesman speak.

Sure, the mfg may technically be in "violation" of the act, but good luck with escalating the matter with Nissan.

While you are busy fighting them on the issue, your vehicle is out of service and you are majorly inconvenienced.

The sad part is that if the person had simply left the ORIGINAL fluid in the transmission, there would've been no issue at all.

As usual, avoidance is generally the better strategy. And besides, there's nothing to suggest that better anti-shudder protection of the fluid will fix the issue...that is pure speculation on your part.


Edited by The Critic (05/03/14 10:47 PM)

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#3361073 - 05/03/14 10:50 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Miller88]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17562
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Miller88

Dealer markup maybe? I have heard of $400 CVT fluid changes at the dealer.

$400 for a fluid change, and they still won't go 100K miles without failing.


Says who?

My dealer charges $189 for a drain and refill. $400 is probably about right for a full flush, since the fluid costs $15-$20/qt and you need 15 quarts. The service is generally unnecessary though, since you need to check the CVT fluid deterioration value using the factory scan tool in order to determine the need for a fluid change...it is not uncommon for the fluid to be good for well over 100k.

The failure stories are way overblown. Sure, they may have been some issues with the early Murano trannys, but some of those CVT failures were attributed to leaking CVT fluid due to a bad seal between the tranny and the transfer case, causing fluid loss.

Nissan has stood behind the transmissions very well with the 10/120k warranty, and based on the sales and overall experiences reported with the mass-produced 07-12 Altima, the CVT has been very successful.


Edited by The Critic (05/03/14 10:51 PM)

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#3361247 - 05/04/14 08:24 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: The Critic]
ProStreetCamaro Offline


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 579
Loc: MD
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Miller88

Dealer markup maybe? I have heard of $400 CVT fluid changes at the dealer.

$400 for a fluid change, and they still won't go 100K miles without failing.


Says who?

My dealer charges $189 for a drain and refill. $400 is probably about right for a full flush, since the fluid costs $15-$20/qt and you need 15 quarts. The service is generally unnecessary though, since you need to check the CVT fluid deterioration value using the factory scan tool in order to determine the need for a fluid change...it is not uncommon for the fluid to be good for well over 100k.

The failure stories are way overblown. Sure, they may have been some issues with the early Murano trannys, but some of those CVT failures were attributed to leaking CVT fluid due to a bad seal between the tranny and the transfer case, causing fluid loss.

Nissan has stood behind the transmissions very well with the 10/120k warranty, and based on the sales and overall experiences reported with the mass-produced 07-12 Altima, the CVT has been very successful.



The problem is the NEW CVT that came out in 2013 is having a ton of shudder problems.

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#3361293 - 05/04/14 09:52 AM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: ProStreetCamaro]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46556
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro

The problem is the NEW CVT that came out in 2013 is having a ton of shudder problems.


And frankly there were problems before that - that you and I know were mostly caused by the fluid itself.

Originally Posted By: The Critic


Typical Amsoil salesman speak.

Sure, the mfg may technically be in "violation" of the act, but good luck with escalating the matter with Nissan.

While you are busy fighting them on the issue, your vehicle is out of service and you are majorly inconvenienced.

The sad part is that if the person had simply left the ORIGINAL fluid in the transmission, there would've been no issue at all.

As usual, avoidance is generally the better strategy. And besides, there's nothing to suggest that better anti-shudder protection of the fluid will fix the issue...that is pure speculation on your part.


When in doubt throw the salesman thing out there. I'm not pretending to be a know it all on this situation. But I do know one thing, for every one rare warranty delay situation, there are thousands of cases when the dealers immediately back down.

I'm not sure why you are so against seeking a better solution. I mean when you turn into Mr. Detail, I'm pretty sure you are not just following what the factory says. You've done nothing but disparage Amsoil, and the new CVT fluid when in reality you know nothing about it. Amsoil seeks a BETTER than solution. In both Engineering and real life avoidance is NOT always a better solution. In fact AVOIDANCE is sometimes the worst decision ever.

I would say much of the shudder is indeed caused by a low bidder inferior factory fluid. Why anyone would be satisfied with that as a internet armchair proposed solution seems seriously weak at best.

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#3361716 - 05/04/14 06:42 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14136
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Despite the wear comparison on the page, I am still a bit skeptical of this fluid given the wide range of applications that it is suitable for.


I think that the additive suppliers have this wide range fluid applicability down to a science, well that is really what is, science.


Quote:
CVTs live-and-die by the correct fluid -- the belts are HIGHLY dependent upon very specific frictional properties in order to survive.


Belts are dependent upon the correct Traction coefficient.

Quote:
The coefficient of traction is defined as the usable force for traction divided by the weight on the running gear (wheels, tracks etc.)[5][6] i.e.:

Usable Traction = Coefficient of Traction x Normal Force

Factors affecting coefficient of traction[edit]
Traction between two surfaces depends on several factors:

Material composition of each surface.

Macroscopic and microscopic shape (texture; macrotexture and microtexture)

Normal force pressing contact surfaces together.
Contaminants at the material boundary including lubricants and adhesives.

Relative motion of tractive surfaces - a sliding object (one in kinetic friction) has less traction than a non-sliding object (one...)

Check WIKI.



I just wish Amsoil would introduce a low viscosity (6.1 cSt@100C, 38 cSt@40C) MTF.

If they want to know how to do it or need a consultant, I know a guy who can help. grin2


Edited by MolaKule (05/04/14 06:43 PM)
_________________________
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#3361743 - 05/04/14 07:04 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29087
Loc: NJ
The NS-3 fluid makes me wonder how similar/compatible they are. Subaru in particular isn't having any CVT issues at all. I wonder how their fluid compares to Nissan's NS-2 and NS-3?

Amsoil goes for the niche market, which makes sense for them. This is one fluid though I would probably not want to use. However, it's good there is the option if need be.
_________________________
2014 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#3363611 - 05/06/14 05:11 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: buster]
mcrn Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 2350
Loc: FL
Originally Posted By: buster
The NS-3 fluid makes me wonder how similar/compatible they are. Subaru in particular isn't having any CVT issues at all. I wonder how their fluid compares to Nissan's NS-2 and NS-3?

Amsoil goes for the niche market, which makes sense for them. This is one fluid though I would probably not want to use. However, it's good there is the option if need be.



I believe that the Subaru is using a chain CVT and not a belt?

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#3363686 - 05/06/14 06:21 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29087
Loc: NJ
^ correct.
_________________________
2014 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#3363780 - 05/06/14 07:29 PM Re: Amsoil CVT Fluid [Re: Pablo]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46556
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Amsoil CVT is NOT recommended for nor has it been tested in NS-3 applications.

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