How do you know that your oil filter has a built in bypass?
- Thread starter BlazerLT
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Real AC's are one of the few filters that don't have bypasses in them. I have cut PF 52's apart mainly to verify they were the same inside as a PF 47, except for more filter area. No bypass in either. Most after market filters have bypasses whether the application needs them or not to reduce part numbers. Often if you look inside, you can see a spring at the threaded end, good, or a black plastic circle or a big metal hole with smaller hole around it in the far end, either one bad.
Anti Fram rant. I cut one apart years ago, compared it to others including a cheap ST, and never bough another one. It had 1/3 the filter area of the AC, and a general thrown together construction. I can't recommend the Champion filters now, but a Purolator should be just as cheap and easy to find as a Fram, and a much better filter.
I am still running a ST 3950 on my truck now. It still has the proven metal end caps and threaded end bypass. The newer design they are changing to has not been proven good. The ST 3950 only has twice the filter media of a Fram plus a better bypass.
Anti Fram rant. I cut one apart years ago, compared it to others including a cheap ST, and never bough another one. It had 1/3 the filter area of the AC, and a general thrown together construction. I can't recommend the Champion filters now, but a Purolator should be just as cheap and easy to find as a Fram, and a much better filter.
I am still running a ST 3950 on my truck now. It still has the proven metal end caps and threaded end bypass. The newer design they are changing to has not been proven good. The ST 3950 only has twice the filter media of a Fram plus a better bypass.
The purolator,Wix and pre-ecore Champion equivalents for the pf-52 don't have bypasses.
How do you tell....
Look in the filter.
Go to an auto parts store and open some boxes and look inside the filter down the center tube area.
If the filter has an engine end by-pass, you'll see some sort of spring just under the threads.
If the filter has a dome end by-pass, you'll see some sort of spring in the bottom of the center tube area or the bottom end cap will have a different look to it than a solid piece of metal. There will be some way for oil to get into the center tube area through the bottom end cap. If it is a solid piece of metal, it doesn't have a by-pass in the dome end.
Look in the filter.
Go to an auto parts store and open some boxes and look inside the filter down the center tube area.
If the filter has an engine end by-pass, you'll see some sort of spring just under the threads.
If the filter has a dome end by-pass, you'll see some sort of spring in the bottom of the center tube area or the bottom end cap will have a different look to it than a solid piece of metal. There will be some way for oil to get into the center tube area through the bottom end cap. If it is a solid piece of metal, it doesn't have a by-pass in the dome end.
Filters for GM engines do not have bypasses. The only exception that I know of is the E-core Champion Supertech 3980s and equivalents have the rubber bypass from similarly sized filters. I don't know why Champion chose to do this other then to save money and not design a bypass-less E-core.
However I have not seen a AC-delco PF52 with an E-core, they may never make one I don't know? I also haven't seen a ST3387(shorter version) with it. It's easily distinguished by two sets of holes in the base plate.
I have not seen a Fram 3980 with a built-in bypass.
-T
However I have not seen a AC-delco PF52 with an E-core, they may never make one I don't know? I also haven't seen a ST3387(shorter version) with it. It's easily distinguished by two sets of holes in the base plate.
I have not seen a Fram 3980 with a built-in bypass.
-T
"I don't know why Champion chose to do this other then to save money and not design a bypass-less E-core."
If I understand the E-core from the Champion Labs website the bypass filter doubles as an antidrainback filter.
I still think the E-core design is excellent. If there are production problems I hope Champ gets it fixed.
If I understand the E-core from the Champion Labs website the bypass filter doubles as an antidrainback filter.
I still think the E-core design is excellent. If there are production problems I hope Champ gets it fixed.
I think if AC had allowed E-core into their product line, then they have done sufficient testing to know how they perform.
btw..what problems are there with the e-core?
It's different , therefore it's bad?
Someone can tear the end cap material off after the filter is used? And that would prove what exactly? The filters end caps lasted the oil change interval. What else should an end cap do?
btw..what problems are there with the e-core?
It's different , therefore it's bad?
Someone can tear the end cap material off after the filter is used? And that would prove what exactly? The filters end caps lasted the oil change interval. What else should an end cap do?
"I think if AC had allowed E-core into their product line, then they have done sufficient testing to know how they perform"
AC is NOT using the ecores, not yet anyway. Maybe you misread that previous post...
Advance is selling the Delphi made AC PF52, and Autozone is selling the Champ version (non-ecore) of the PF52. Looks more like AC is specifically staying AWAY from the ecores, at least in that application, for the time being.
That fiber material "thermally-bonded" end cap, seems, at best, to be a marginal attempt at sealing the end of that cartridge..says cost-cutter all over it. It may work ok, time will tell..and some vigilant BITOGRs with digi-cams will document one way or another. It seems a little early on to be spending much time staunchly defending it at this point.
AC is NOT using the ecores, not yet anyway. Maybe you misread that previous post...
Advance is selling the Delphi made AC PF52, and Autozone is selling the Champ version (non-ecore) of the PF52. Looks more like AC is specifically staying AWAY from the ecores, at least in that application, for the time being.
That fiber material "thermally-bonded" end cap, seems, at best, to be a marginal attempt at sealing the end of that cartridge..says cost-cutter all over it. It may work ok, time will tell..and some vigilant BITOGRs with digi-cams will document one way or another. It seems a little early on to be spending much time staunchly defending it at this point.
How did this turn into an e-core discussion? No one said they are bad, I simply mentioned that they are the only PF-52 equivelent with a bypass and there is no real reason for them to include one(since the engine has a bypass) other then they can save money by sharing a design with another filter.
Because of the bypass in both filters, the ST3980 and ST3600 are identical except for the 3980 has metric threads and the 3600 has standard.
-T
Because of the bypass in both filters, the ST3980 and ST3600 are identical except for the 3980 has metric threads and the 3600 has standard.
-T
The Ecore is sort of the nose of the camel under the tent. No discussion of bypass/no bypass would be complete without addressing the widely used Champion filters and their new design. I don't feel I have enough information to make a decision on it yet. I am more likely to give weight to a few UOA's than a gigabyte of pictures. For all the angst about Frams, has anybody ever posted a series of UOA's with Fram and other filters conclusively showing the Fram did worse?
I have numbers convincing me not to buy Fram, 84 sq. in compared to 255 sq. in. I have seen no numbers proving anything about the Ecore except the purchase price. It must be producing some amazing blood pressure readings.
I have numbers convincing me not to buy Fram, 84 sq. in compared to 255 sq. in. I have seen no numbers proving anything about the Ecore except the purchase price. It must be producing some amazing blood pressure readings.
Rando..
As you say, we've been down this road before.
While you'll admit Champ builds a lot of AC branded product, for some reason you seem unwilling to recognize that there is a real strong
chance that either Champ has shared testing data and/or AC has done their own tests on E-core.
You can deduce from there where that may lead to in the future.
If AC has a problem with the E-core they would have sent out service advisories to GM dealers saying in effect that the E-core does not meet their requirements. ( This includes the thermal bonded end caps)
Do you personally know of any service advisory? Have you checked with your local GM dealers?
Have you asked AC?
Or do you really want to know the answer?
As you say, we've been down this road before.
While you'll admit Champ builds a lot of AC branded product, for some reason you seem unwilling to recognize that there is a real strong
You can deduce from there where that may lead to in the future.
If AC has a problem with the E-core they would have sent out service advisories to GM dealers saying in effect that the E-core does not meet their requirements. ( This includes the thermal bonded end caps)
Do you personally know of any service advisory? Have you checked with your local GM dealers?
Have you asked AC?
Or do you really want to know the answer?
Sometimes you can tell by looking up the filter on the manufacturers web site. I think the Purlator filter for the Subaru Legacy does not have a bypass and the one for Honda Odyssey does. Yet the same filter is specified for both vehicles by Fram and some others. That confused me for a while, but the Subaru filter is mounted vertically. Oops, I think the difference is one has an antidrain back and the other one doesn't. I got confused for a minute. The bypass valves for the 2 Purolators have different setting, and one doesn't have a ADBV. I hate old age........
I haven't seen a ST Ecore design for my 3.5 liter GM engine yet. Is it distribution or is Champion holding this up in Ecore design?
If they get it right, I see no problem with the basic Ecore design.
If they get it right, I see no problem with the basic Ecore design.
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