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#3359462 - 05/02/14 12:21 AM '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi
WRX12tt Offline


Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 23
Loc: Denver, CO
After taking a mid-interval sample, I changed the oil at about 7,200 mi. Subaru OEM blue filter as always. At around 4,900 mi when I took the last sample I added about a quart of oil. Mostly easy driving with a few autocross events on the interval. All the winter driving on this interval too. TBN seems to be getting low at this mileage and the TAN seems to be creeping up too.

Code:
Oil----------------------  Factory Fill ------ Edge OE 5w30---Pennzoil Platinum 5w30---	Pennzoil Ultra 5w30--- Mobil 1 ESP 5w30--- Mobil 1 ESP 5w30--- Universal Averages
Miles In Use               3,002               4,048	      3,351			4,547		       4,889	       	   7,216
Miles on Unit              3,002               7,050	      10,401			14,948		       19,837		   22,164
Date Changed               2/1/13              5/10/13	      8/05/13			11/11/13	       2/28/14		   4/21/14
Make up Oil Added--------- 0 Qts. ------------ 0 Qts. ------- 0 Qts. ------------------ 0.6 Qts. ------------- 0 Qts. ------------ 1.0 Qts.

Aluminum------------------ 7 ----------------- 9 ------------ 6 ----------------------- 5 ---------------------4 ----------------- 4------------------ 4
Chromium                   1                   1              1                        	1		       1                   1  		       1
Iron                       34                  16             14                      	11		       10                  13                  9
Copper                     27                  9              7                        	5		       3                   4                   9
Lead---------------------- 0 ----------------- 0 ------------ 0 ----------------------- 0 -------------------- 0 ----------------- 1 ----------------- 3
Tin                        4                   3              2                        	0		       0                   0                   1
Molybdenum                 1079                435            118                      	70		       81                  82                  72
Nickel                     0                   0              0                        	0		       1                   0                   0
Manganese                  2                   1              1                        	0		       0                   0                   1
Silver-------------------- 2 ----------------- 1 ------------ 0 ----------------------- 1 -------------------- 1 ----------------- 1 ----------------- 0
Titanium                   0                   1              0                        	2		       0                   0                   0
Potassium                  2                   2              2                        	1		       0                   1                   2
Boron                      198                 26             6                        	60		       126                 105                 46
Silicon                    89                  19             10                      	5		       4                   5                   11
Sodium-------------------- 8 ----------------- 6 ------------ 1 ----------------------- 2 -------------------- 3 ----------------- 4 ----------------- 28
Calcium                    2105                1777           2388                     	2422		       1218                1235                2006
Magnesium                  12                  6              12                       	15		       6                   8                   369
Phosphorous                892                 680            725                      	798		       695                 714                 810
Zinc---------------------- 1082 -------------- 802 ---------- 831 --------------------- 842 ------------------ 778 --------------- 855 --------------- 960
Barium                     2                   1              0                        	0		       0                   0                   0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F------ 52.4 -------------- 66.1 --------- 58.9 -------------------- 57.3 ----------------- 62.8 -------------- 63.5 -------------- 56-63					
cSt Viscosity @ 100C       7.99                11.91          9.91                     	9.44		       11.0                11.21               9.1-11.3
Flashpoint in F            405                 435	      405                      	425		       410                 435                 >365
Fuel                       <0.5                <0.5           <0.5                     	<0.5		       <0.5                <0.5                <2.0
Antifreeze %-------------- 0.0 --------------- 0.0 ---------- 0.0 --------------------- 0.0 ------------------ 0.0 --------------- 0.0 ----------------0.0
Water %.                   0.0                 0.0            0.0                      	0.0		       0.0                 0.0                 <0.1
Insolubles %               0.2                 0.3            0.1                      	0.3		       0.4                 0.2                 <0.6
TBN                        N/A                 2.8	      N/A			5.2                    3.0                 1.5
TAN----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2.2		   4.6


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#3359472 - 05/02/14 01:38 AM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: WRX12tt]
HTSS_TR Offline


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 14604
Loc: Lake Forest, CA
TBN is only 1.5 and Black Stone recommends increase OCI from 7,200 miles to 9,000 miles ? Are they nut ?

TBN at 1.0 is an absolute low, you don't want to get your oil below that, 1.0 to 2.0 is a safety margin you like to have, especially for a turbo charged engine. I would stay at around 7,000 miles.
_________________________
'94 Lexus LS400
'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis

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#3359476 - 05/02/14 01:49 AM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: WRX12tt]
Ayrton Offline


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 662
Loc: Washington State, U.S.
While your engine looks great, with ESP oil and the TBN, I would not go quite all the way to 7,000 miles.

I'd cut that back a little bit. Why did you choose a ESP oil with low TBN?


Edited by Ayrton (05/02/14 01:49 AM)

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#3359539 - 05/02/14 06:55 AM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: Ayrton]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1953
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
Why did you choose a ESP oil with low TBN?

I think because he wanted a thicker oil (but still running a 5W-30 for warranty) instead of one that woud likely shear to a 20 grade, or become a 20 grade from fuel contamination.

I would probably keep the interval at 6-7k max. All 2015's are maxed out at 6k miles in the U.S., and I wouldn't be surprised if SoA applied it to older models in the future. Be very careful listening to recommendations to extend the OCI (said the guy that blew a turbo).

-Dennis


Edited by bluesubie (05/02/14 06:56 AM)
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40

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#3359607 - 05/02/14 08:41 AM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: WRX12tt]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 7201
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
I think I would settle for a 6K oil/filter change.
_________________________
CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)

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#3359621 - 05/02/14 08:52 AM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: HTSS_TR]
mwball0 Offline


Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
TBN is only 1.5 and Black Stone recommends increase OCI from 7,200 miles to 9,000 miles ? Are they nut ?

TBN at 1.0 is an absolute low, you don't want to get your oil below that, 1.0 to 2.0 is a safety margin you like to have, especially for a turbo charged engine. I would stay at around 7,000 miles.

Not to mention he added a quart! I'm sure that brought the TBN up a bit.

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#3359693 - 05/02/14 10:08 AM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: mwball0]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Colorado Springs
Hi neighbor,
is this WRX direct injection? If it is not, why you using Low-SAPS ESP?
I am using M1 ESP 5W30 because of valve deposits on VW DI engine. On other hand, if you want thicker 30 weight, and considering you live in same area like I do, I think MUCH better option would be GC 0W30. Better cold start, just notch thicker then ESP, and it is Full-SAPS.
If WRX is direct injection M1 ESP is, if you ask me, best option. But, stick to 5K not more.
Also, do not worry about TAN. Starting TAN on ESP is 2.2. ESP, although primarily Group III oil, has good amount of Ester, which is acidic from start.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

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#3359990 - 05/02/14 05:02 PM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: edyvw]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1953
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Hi neighbor,
is this WRX direct injection? If it is not, why you using Low-SAPS ESP?
I am using M1 ESP 5W30 because of valve deposits on VW DI engine. On other hand, if you want thicker 30 weight, and considering you live in same area like I do, I think MUCH better option would be GC 0W30. Better cold start, just notch thicker then ESP, and it is Full-SAPS.
If WRX is direct injection M1 ESP is, if you ask me, best option. But, stick to 5K not more.
Also, do not worry about TAN. Starting TAN on ESP is 2.2. ESP, although primarily Group III oil, has good amount of Ester, which is acidic from start.

The 2013 isn't direct injection (that comes beginning with the '15 WRX and '14 Forester XT). Again, I believe it's moreso to stick with the manual recommendation of SM/SN 5W-30. Even though we know GC is a robust oil, a dealer or SoA would likely say that 0W-30 isn't an approved viscosity in the event of a Powertrain claim.

Now that the OP has an idea of how long to run this oil, running a robust 5W-30 in an application known not to be kind to bearings running lower viscosity, lower HTHS oils probably helps him sleep better at night.

I presume a lot of this info, but I think I'm in the ballpark based on our discussions on nasioc. smile Want to see some high fuel dilution/low viscosity in Subaru turbos? Wait until the 2015 WRX DI uoa's start coming in.

Anyone else have a question for the OP that I can answer? grin2

-Dennis



Edited by bluesubie (05/02/14 05:06 PM)
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40

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#3360095 - 05/02/14 07:16 PM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: Ayrton]
WRX12tt Offline


Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 23
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: bluesubie

The 2013 isn't direct injection (that comes beginning with the '15 WRX and '14 Forester XT). Again, I believe it's moreso to stick with the manual recommendation of SM/SN 5W-30. Even though we know GC is a robust oil, a dealer or SoA would likely say that 0W-30 isn't an approved viscosity in the event of a Powertrain claim.

Now that the OP has an idea of how long to run this oil, running a robust 5W-30 in an application known not to be kind to bearings running lower viscosity, lower HTHS oils probably helps him sleep better at night.

I presume a lot of this info, but I think I'm in the ballpark based on our discussions on nasioc. smile Want to see some high fuel dilution/low viscosity in Subaru turbos? Wait until the 2015 WRX DI uoa's start coming in.

Anyone else have a question for the OP that I can answer? grin2

-Dennis


You're answering them all correctly smile

Originally Posted By: Ayrton
While your engine looks great, with ESP oil and the TBN, I would not go quite all the way to 7,000 miles.

I'd cut that back a little bit. Why did you choose a ESP oil with low TBN?

Warranty reasons, mostly. Resource conserving oils tend to shear quite a bit in this engine and I wanted something that would hold up a bit better while still being a 5w30.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Hi neighbor,
is this WRX direct injection? If it is not, why you using Low-SAPS ESP?
I am using M1 ESP 5W30 because of valve deposits on VW DI engine. On other hand, if you want thicker 30 weight, and considering you live in same area like I do, I think MUCH better option would be GC 0W30. Better cold start, just notch thicker then ESP, and it is Full-SAPS.
If WRX is direct injection M1 ESP is, if you ask me, best option. But, stick to 5K not more.
Also, do not worry about TAN. Starting TAN on ESP is 2.2. ESP, although primarily Group III oil, has good amount of Ester, which is acidic from start.

GC is a very good oil, but does not meet the warranty requirements of 5w30. I would run GC or Rotella T6 in a heartbeat if not concerned about warranty coverage. As stated above, this has better viscosity retention than some of the resource conserving oils. Thanks for the info on TAN, that's good to know.

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#3360328 - 05/02/14 11:19 PM Re: '13 WRX: Mobil 1 ESP 7,216 mi [Re: WRX12tt]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Colorado Springs
Ah, I did not know about Subaru warranty requirements. After warranty I would switch to GC, since I still think that is best oil I ever used, especially in cold environment. If CC did not have these issues with valve deposits, I would stick with GC all time.
Than it makes sense, I would maybe cut OCI to 5-6K. Also, considering area where you live, I would continue to use this oil because it has really good pour point for 5W30 oil.
Also, based on M1 0W40 UOA that I did in my car, and UOA I did after using 5W30 ESP for 3.3K, i would say ESP has much better base oil as well as additives. M1 0W40 TBN dropped from 11.3 to 2.6 in 5.1K!!! It stayed well in the grade (from 13.5cst to 13.3cst, but I do 70% HWY driving, mostly to A-Basin) but TBN just went down like crazy.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

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