Why would used motor oil result in poor asphalt?
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From the article: "When the contract goes out for tender, [Hesp] says, it’s usually a low-bid approach, so contractors use cheaper materials. That equates to an initial cost saving, but substantially more in repair bills later on."
Yes, and in Loozyana, I suspect, the govt. officials pocket a big part of the savings.
Also, "Imagine roads free of potholes and cracks. That would lead to fewer repairs, fewer traffic jams and maybe, just maybe, a significant reduction in road rage."
Ah, if only Da Swamp's so-called "leaders" could understand this! And it would be good PR for tourists, too. . . .
Yes, and in Loozyana, I suspect, the govt. officials pocket a big part of the savings.
Also, "Imagine roads free of potholes and cracks. That would lead to fewer repairs, fewer traffic jams and maybe, just maybe, a significant reduction in road rage."
Ah, if only Da Swamp's so-called "leaders" could understand this! And it would be good PR for tourists, too. . . .
I think some of it is in the road base. They rush and go cheap on that and the road will not last. How about going back to concrete?
Around here they have huge machines that grind up the old asphalt, mix it with some tar and water and put it back down all in one step. Thats now becomes the under layer. Then they wait a week or two and put fresh asphalt on top.
Other places grind off the top layer and bring it as recycle material to the asphalt plant.
Around here they have huge machines that grind up the old asphalt, mix it with some tar and water and put it back down all in one step. Thats now becomes the under layer. Then they wait a week or two and put fresh asphalt on top.
Other places grind off the top layer and bring it as recycle material to the asphalt plant.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Other places grind off the top layer and bring it as recycle material to the asphalt plant.
This is the process they use here. The roads around here (Ottawa) are wicked terrible this year. I think it's because the city always takes the lowest bid...
Other places grind off the top layer and bring it as recycle material to the asphalt plant.
This is the process they use here. The roads around here (Ottawa) are wicked terrible this year. I think it's because the city always takes the lowest bid...
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Quote:
To provide for unimpeded, high-speed traffic flow is the general rule for the Autobahn design. Most Autobahns feature the following design elements (Unimproved older segments excluded)
-Two, three, or occasionally four lanes per direction.
-Rural section lanes are generally 3.75 meters wide except the left lane of newer three lane segments, which is 3.5 meters wide. On urban sections, all lanes are 3.5 meters wide.
-A landscaped vegetated median 3.5 or 4 meters wide (In urban areas, 3 meters). A double-sided guardrail runs in the middle. Blinders are often used on curves. Some newer sections have concrete barriers instead of vegetated medians.
-Outside emergency shoulders and long acceleration and deceleration lanes.
-Full grade separation and access control, generally provided by half cloverleaf interchanges at exits and full cloverleafs or directional interchanges at Autobahn crossings. Interchanges are generally well spaced, sometimes exceeding 30 km between.
-Grades of 4% or less. Climbing lanes are provided on most steep grades.
-Gentle and well banked curves.
-Freeze resistant concrete or bituminous surface.
-Roadbed and surface measuring about 68 cm (27 inches) in thickness.
Autobahns also feature the following amenities:
-Reflector guide posts at 50 meter intervals.
-Frequent parking areas, often equipped with toilets.
-Extensive and ample service areas featuring gas stations, restaurants, and hotels.
-Automated traffic and weather monitoring and electronic signs providing dynamic speed limits and/or advance warning of congestion, construction, accidents, and fog.
-Emergency telephones every 2 km.
-Pre-signed detour routes to facilitate emergency closures.
-Standardized signage.
-Wildlife protection fencing, crossover tunnels and "green bridges".
-Maintenance is superb. Crews inspect every square meter of the system periodically using vehicles with high-tech road scanning equipment. If a fissure or other defect is found, the entire road section is replaced. Barriers, signs, and other features are also well maintained.
http://www.german-autobahn.eu/index.asp?page=design
I am really quite impressed with the level of dedication in terms of roadway design, implementation and maintenance that Germany has put into the Autobahn system.
To provide for unimpeded, high-speed traffic flow is the general rule for the Autobahn design. Most Autobahns feature the following design elements (Unimproved older segments excluded)
-Two, three, or occasionally four lanes per direction.
-Rural section lanes are generally 3.75 meters wide except the left lane of newer three lane segments, which is 3.5 meters wide. On urban sections, all lanes are 3.5 meters wide.
-A landscaped vegetated median 3.5 or 4 meters wide (In urban areas, 3 meters). A double-sided guardrail runs in the middle. Blinders are often used on curves. Some newer sections have concrete barriers instead of vegetated medians.
-Outside emergency shoulders and long acceleration and deceleration lanes.
-Full grade separation and access control, generally provided by half cloverleaf interchanges at exits and full cloverleafs or directional interchanges at Autobahn crossings. Interchanges are generally well spaced, sometimes exceeding 30 km between.
-Grades of 4% or less. Climbing lanes are provided on most steep grades.
-Gentle and well banked curves.
-Freeze resistant concrete or bituminous surface.
-Roadbed and surface measuring about 68 cm (27 inches) in thickness.
Autobahns also feature the following amenities:
-Reflector guide posts at 50 meter intervals.
-Frequent parking areas, often equipped with toilets.
-Extensive and ample service areas featuring gas stations, restaurants, and hotels.
-Automated traffic and weather monitoring and electronic signs providing dynamic speed limits and/or advance warning of congestion, construction, accidents, and fog.
-Emergency telephones every 2 km.
-Pre-signed detour routes to facilitate emergency closures.
-Standardized signage.
-Wildlife protection fencing, crossover tunnels and "green bridges".
-Maintenance is superb. Crews inspect every square meter of the system periodically using vehicles with high-tech road scanning equipment. If a fissure or other defect is found, the entire road section is replaced. Barriers, signs, and other features are also well maintained.
http://www.german-autobahn.eu/index.asp?page=design
I am really quite impressed with the level of dedication in terms of roadway design, implementation and maintenance that Germany has put into the Autobahn system.
I wonder how its paid for? Their fuel taxes would cover all it and more I guess!
Really when you think about it, just having a few sections with high speeds makes car ownership 2-3 times more expensive in Germany than here... Extra licensing costs, vehicle inspections, high fuel taxes to maintain the roads to a higher standard.
Nice for a tiny rich nation, not so good for a vast thinly populated one.
Overall though, our roads are pretty good. Its a bit rough in some towns, but I rarely ever see a car breaker hole.
Really when you think about it, just having a few sections with high speeds makes car ownership 2-3 times more expensive in Germany than here... Extra licensing costs, vehicle inspections, high fuel taxes to maintain the roads to a higher standard.
Nice for a tiny rich nation, not so good for a vast thinly populated one.
Overall though, our roads are pretty good. Its a bit rough in some towns, but I rarely ever see a car breaker hole.
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I wonder how its paid for? Their fuel taxes would cover all it and more I guess!
Really when you think about it, just having a few sections with high speeds makes car ownership 2-3 times more expensive in Germany than here... Extra licensing costs, vehicle inspections, high fuel taxes to maintain the roads to a higher standard.
Nice for a tiny rich nation, not so good for a vast thinly populated one.
Overall though, our roads are pretty good. Its a bit rough in some towns, but I rarely ever see a car breaker hole.
True, though I think their licensing system is better than ours. Keeps the people that shouldn't be driving off the road. We give licenses to anybody and then reap the results of that.
They also have far fewer OTR trucks than we do which directly translates to less road wear. They use a lot more rail. We ripped much of ours up. Brilliant
I wonder how its paid for? Their fuel taxes would cover all it and more I guess!
Really when you think about it, just having a few sections with high speeds makes car ownership 2-3 times more expensive in Germany than here... Extra licensing costs, vehicle inspections, high fuel taxes to maintain the roads to a higher standard.
Nice for a tiny rich nation, not so good for a vast thinly populated one.
Overall though, our roads are pretty good. Its a bit rough in some towns, but I rarely ever see a car breaker hole.
True, though I think their licensing system is better than ours. Keeps the people that shouldn't be driving off the road. We give licenses to anybody and then reap the results of that.
They also have far fewer OTR trucks than we do which directly translates to less road wear. They use a lot more rail. We ripped much of ours up. Brilliant
We have the advantage, in southern AZ, of not having much in the way of frost on most years. Our freeways here, at least urban and suburban ones, are concrete with a thin overlay of asphalt. That asphalt overlay has recycled tire rubber in it. The roads made this way are SOOOOO nice! Super-smooth, super-quiet, and super-durable. Expensive up front, but cheap long-term in multiple ways. Sorry you can't use it up north! (I guess?)
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Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
We have the advantage, in southern AZ, of not having much in the way of frost on most years. Our freeways here, at least urban and suburban ones, are concrete with a thin overlay of asphalt. That asphalt overlay has recycled tire rubber in it. The roads made this way are SOOOOO nice! Super-smooth, super-quiet, and super-durable. Expensive up front, but cheap long-term in multiple ways. Sorry you can't use it up north! (I guess?)
Depends on the highway. The 400-series highways (and the 115) have a concrete base with an asphalt overlay. SOME roads have the recycled tires in them (I remember a local Catholic school having their "track and field" track made with this process that was celebrated with much fanfare back in the early 1990's) but I don't believe it is used in conjunction with the concrete based highways/roads.
The local roads do not use concrete underneath and it shows. We had HUGE chunks of the road by my work disappear this winter and this happened elsewhere in town as well. There were these massive dips that appeared as well, and then disappeared as the frost left. A concrete base would prevent that as well.
It just seems that there is no consistency when it comes to road construction
We have the advantage, in southern AZ, of not having much in the way of frost on most years. Our freeways here, at least urban and suburban ones, are concrete with a thin overlay of asphalt. That asphalt overlay has recycled tire rubber in it. The roads made this way are SOOOOO nice! Super-smooth, super-quiet, and super-durable. Expensive up front, but cheap long-term in multiple ways. Sorry you can't use it up north! (I guess?)
Depends on the highway. The 400-series highways (and the 115) have a concrete base with an asphalt overlay. SOME roads have the recycled tires in them (I remember a local Catholic school having their "track and field" track made with this process that was celebrated with much fanfare back in the early 1990's) but I don't believe it is used in conjunction with the concrete based highways/roads.
The local roads do not use concrete underneath and it shows. We had HUGE chunks of the road by my work disappear this winter and this happened elsewhere in town as well. There were these massive dips that appeared as well, and then disappeared as the frost left. A concrete base would prevent that as well.
It just seems that there is no consistency when it comes to road construction
wup wup, wup wup, wup wup, wup wup, wup wup, wup wup..... For 50 miles...
That's my concrete road exeperience in Manitoba and Minnesota atleast, how they get every section to cup the same is an engineering marvel!
I think the 115 concrete section has been ground flat once so far as well.
Probably reducing heavy truck traffic would be the best, but I think its here to stay unless fuel prices make rail become viable again.
That's my concrete road exeperience in Manitoba and Minnesota atleast, how they get every section to cup the same is an engineering marvel!
I think the 115 concrete section has been ground flat once so far as well.
Probably reducing heavy truck traffic would be the best, but I think its here to stay unless fuel prices make rail become viable again.
The problem here is that, when they actually do repair a road, they often leave it as concrete -- rough-surfaced, with joins where each block meets the next. Ka-bump, ka-thump. Or they'll start to repair, pretending or teasing us drivers, by scraping off the top layer of asphalt or whatever has been there since FDR's second term . . . and then not replacing it. A sign, "Grooved Pavement," is all you get.
That, and "BUMP" or "DIP" signs, indicating where a "new" section of paving meets the old. Hey, LA DOT, here's a thought off the top of my head. Why not smooth it all out and dump the "BUMP" signs???
That, and "BUMP" or "DIP" signs, indicating where a "new" section of paving meets the old. Hey, LA DOT, here's a thought off the top of my head. Why not smooth it all out and dump the "BUMP" signs???
I believe it.
I use to change my oil on an asphalt driveway under a carport, same place every time. Now and then, I'd spill a little oil, but I'd mop it up right away. After years, the asphalt in that spot broke down and became more like gravel. (I've since started using a big piece of cardboard to catch the spills.)
I suspect it has to do with the hydrocarbon lengths in motor oil - much shorter than in tar. The tar being what's left after they "boil" off all the lighter fractions (fuel, oil, etc). If it can lubricate the inside of an engine, it can "lubricate" the asphalt.
I use to change my oil on an asphalt driveway under a carport, same place every time. Now and then, I'd spill a little oil, but I'd mop it up right away. After years, the asphalt in that spot broke down and became more like gravel. (I've since started using a big piece of cardboard to catch the spills.)
I suspect it has to do with the hydrocarbon lengths in motor oil - much shorter than in tar. The tar being what's left after they "boil" off all the lighter fractions (fuel, oil, etc). If it can lubricate the inside of an engine, it can "lubricate" the asphalt.
Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
I believe it.
I use to change my oil on an asphalt driveway under a carport, same place every time. Now and then, I'd spill a little oil, but I'd mop it up right away. After years, the asphalt in that spot broke down and became more like gravel. (I've since started using a big piece of cardboard to catch the spills.)
I suspect it has to do with the hydrocarbon lengths in motor oil - much shorter than in tar. The tar being what's left after they "boil" off all the lighter fractions (fuel, oil, etc). If it can lubricate the inside of an engine, it can "lubricate" the asphalt.
Like dissolves like - as they say.
The asphalt has such a high viscosity at regular temps that it feels solid (simplifying it a LOT). Mix some lighter viscosity oil in it (lubricants), and it won't be as solid.
From what I've heard/read/been told -- The reason that asphalt sucks these days compared to even a decade or two ago is the fact that refineries are a lot more efficient. Apparently the side-effect of them getting better at separating components of crude, the less of those components are left in the asphaltic remains - essentially lowering it's overall quality in a weird chemical/petro engineer sense.
Granted - that's not my field... so I could be completely misinformed.
I believe it.
I use to change my oil on an asphalt driveway under a carport, same place every time. Now and then, I'd spill a little oil, but I'd mop it up right away. After years, the asphalt in that spot broke down and became more like gravel. (I've since started using a big piece of cardboard to catch the spills.)
I suspect it has to do with the hydrocarbon lengths in motor oil - much shorter than in tar. The tar being what's left after they "boil" off all the lighter fractions (fuel, oil, etc). If it can lubricate the inside of an engine, it can "lubricate" the asphalt.
Like dissolves like - as they say.
The asphalt has such a high viscosity at regular temps that it feels solid (simplifying it a LOT). Mix some lighter viscosity oil in it (lubricants), and it won't be as solid.
From what I've heard/read/been told -- The reason that asphalt sucks these days compared to even a decade or two ago is the fact that refineries are a lot more efficient. Apparently the side-effect of them getting better at separating components of crude, the less of those components are left in the asphaltic remains - essentially lowering it's overall quality in a weird chemical/petro engineer sense.
Granted - that's not my field... so I could be completely misinformed.
Depends on what you order for your asphalt. A lot of batch plants will mix in waste oil to make a cheaper product that they sell for residential driveways or more of a cold patch like product.
Commercial or Highway asphalt often has a very strict specification as to what can and cannot be used and in what proportions. Your driveway sucks because they sold you cheap materials, the highways don't fall apart because they are forced to use the proper materials to start with.
Commercial or Highway asphalt often has a very strict specification as to what can and cannot be used and in what proportions. Your driveway sucks because they sold you cheap materials, the highways don't fall apart because they are forced to use the proper materials to start with.
A poor bond over the lower layer of asphalt is the usual cause of damage.
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