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#3353179 - 04/25/14 06:20 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: Volvohead]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 1547
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
As said, almost always, the OEM plug is optimal. In some, the engine won't run right without the OE plug, like the five cathode made-in-France plug specified in many NA Volvos. Most of the time the OE plug is not much more anyway (although a set of 5 Volvo R plugs is now over $70 - ouch).

But there are occasionally exceptions to the rule, typically with much older engines. On the water, we found that regular copper core NGKs held up much better than the OEM ACs and everything else, including fancy-pants platinums, on some older GM gassers, where its spinning WOT all afternoon long.

Ditto on NGK and Nippondenso. I'm more a fan of Nippondenso than NGK though, but Nippondenso is harder to find.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 257,000 M
Toyota (by ExxonMobil) SN/GF-5 0W-20 Synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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#3353660 - 04/26/14 08:32 AM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: Gokhan]
jorton Offline


Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 2742
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Another link to V power spark plug.
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#3353818 - 04/26/14 12:32 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: jorton]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8125
Loc: NorthEast
I am surprised that there is no spark plug information on 2012 Acura TL under hood. I thought that was mandated by emissions.

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#3353870 - 04/26/14 02:08 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: jorton]
kr_bitog Offline


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 728
Loc: South East Asia
Originally Posted By: jorton
"more gas mileage and horsepower because they employ a U ground-electrode groove (Denso) or V inner-electrode groove (NGK), which increases the combustion efficiency by trapping a small amount of mixture where the spark develops."

Can't argue with that, especially in this vehicle. Thanks for the spark plug lesson!


The Denso U and NGK V Power is just helping to maintain ignitability compared to standard plug, however this pales in comparison of latest iridium plug (NGK IX/IX-P, Denso SIP,VK/IK, Bosch OE Iridium) which use thinner center electrode to maintain ignitability.

Some people do not realize, the wrong heat range of plug also can increase fuel consumption on top of the carbon issue. The best plug is the SIP plug but unfortunately it does not cover much old engine model, and the most important to check is whether the car has wasted spark iginition which warrants dual iridium or iridium-platinum for both plug tips to have long life. The downside of platinum is the size can not be made as tiny as iridium to have same durability, that will cause less ignitability capability compared to iridium.


Edited by kr_bitog (04/26/14 02:10 PM)

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#3353949 - 04/26/14 04:17 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: kr_bitog]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 1547
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: jorton
"more gas mileage and horsepower because they employ a U ground-electrode groove (Denso) or V inner-electrode groove (NGK), which increases the combustion efficiency by trapping a small amount of mixture where the spark develops."

Can't argue with that, especially in this vehicle. Thanks for the spark plug lesson!

The Denso U and NGK V Power is just helping to maintain ignitability compared to standard plug, however this pales in comparison of latest iridium plug (NGK IX/IX-P, Denso SIP,VK/IK, Bosch OE Iridium) which use thinner center electrode to maintain ignitability.

Some people do not realize, the wrong heat range of plug also can increase fuel consumption on top of the carbon issue. The best plug is the SIP plug but unfortunately it does not cover much old engine model, and the most important to check is whether the car has wasted spark iginition which warrants dual iridium or iridium-platinum for both plug tips to have long life. The downside of platinum is the size can not be made as tiny as iridium to have same durability, that will cause less ignitability capability compared to iridium.

I don't completely agree with the assessment regarding the super-ignition plug (SIP). The SIP plug compromises between plug durability (120k miles or longer) and ignition capability.

On the other hand, the V or U grooves are all about ignition capability but not about plug durability at all. I believe it's possible to generate a larger-diameter initial fireball between the groove and opposing electrode than with an SIP plug, which tries to increase the size of initial fireball diameter by reducing the quenching effect by making the electrodes thinner but doesn't add extra distance for the initial fireball to grow as in a groove plug.


U-groove and conventional plugs: in the U-grove plug, there is more distance for the initial fireball to grow than in the conventional plug.


SIP plug: electrodes are thinner for less quenching of the initial fireball but the distance for the initial fireball to grow is unchanged from the conventional plug.

Long story short, OEM U-groove or V-groove plugs work as well and probably better than the fancy, expensive plugs, as long as they are changed with the recommended interval.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 257,000 M
Toyota (by ExxonMobil) SN/GF-5 0W-20 Synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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#3354132 - 04/26/14 07:51 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: Vikas]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6798
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am surprised that there is no spark plug information on 2012 Acura TL under hood. I thought that was mandated by emissions.

I'm used to not seeing spark plug info on cars made in the last 10 years or so.

However, I am used to seeing part numbers in the owner's manual. In many Japanese cars, I would usually see 1 NGK part number and 1 Denso part number. NGK plugs were always easier for me to get, so I saw zero advantage to finding Denso plugs.

The second problem with having a part number underhood or in the manual is what would happen if a TSB called for a different kind of spark plug? I have worked on multiple cars where the exact OEM plug would be discontinued, and a different plug was required.
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#3354337 - 04/27/14 12:57 AM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: Gokhan]
fpracha Offline


Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 479
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Simply change the OEM plugs every 30k or so.

From your experiences should the first set of factory fitted spark plugs be changed at somewhat earlier than this 30k mile interval (approx 20-25 k miles), and thereafter the spark plugs should be changed at 30k miles intervals ?

You mean because brand-new cars consume oil during break-in?

That's usually only about a quart of oil at most. Therefore, I think 30k miles with a quality OEM plug should be OK even when the car is new.

Yes because there is a chance for improved fuel economy when changing the first factory installed set a little earlier. Or is this totally flawed logic ?

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#3354422 - 04/27/14 07:39 AM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: jorton]
KitaCam Offline


Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1536
Loc: SunnySouthFlorida
The factory installed Denso iridiums' lifetime is 120k miles on the Camry....changed mine @ 100k and they looked just fine....still, that's after 8 years....another 2 years might make them harder to remove...no change in performance with the new ones..


Edited by KitaCam (04/27/14 07:40 AM)
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#3354531 - 04/27/14 10:27 AM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: KitaCam]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3546
Loc: SE Pa
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
The factory installed Denso iridiums' lifetime is 120k miles on the Camry....changed mine @ 100k and they looked just fine....still, that's after 8 years....another 2 years might make them harder to remove...no change in performance with the new ones..


That's a really good point.

Sometimes it's good to change them just to keep them from freezing up in the head.

That one has bitten a lot of Ford truck owners in recent years.

Anti-seize helps, but exercising the threads periodically works best.

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#3354802 - 04/27/14 04:16 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: jorton]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8125
Loc: NorthEast
Quote:
That one has bitten a lot of Ford truck owners in recent years.
However, please don't use that example as that plug left had wrong design to begin with. I have taken few NGK off vehicles at 10/150K without much protest.

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#3355722 - 04/28/14 02:53 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: jorton]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3546
Loc: SE Pa
Yeah, I know. And I don't mean to rub any salt in those Ford owner's wounds.

But it is a vivid "nightmare" illustration of what happens when the plug won't/can't come out.

I also subscribe to the "turtle cooking" scenario for plugs. The decline is so gradual that most drivers never notice. While the plug is still "good" at 100k, it's probably not as efficient as it was at 50k. With gas at $3-4 gallon, on a bigger thirsty V8, the fuel savings across 50k might justify the early change v. the 50% cost amortization on eight plugs.

Generally, spark plugs are pretty inexpensive parts as parts go.

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#3355782 - 04/28/14 03:51 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: jorton]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 1547
Loc: Los Angeles, California
All NGK and Nippondenso plus are plated and there is no seizing issue. The only reason why they would be difficult to remove would be that they were overtorqued.

Do not remove and reinstall spark plugs because that causes the plating to come off, which leads to seizing.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 257,000 M
Toyota (by ExxonMobil) SN/GF-5 0W-20 Synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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#3355787 - 04/28/14 03:53 PM Re: OE spark plug question [Re: BigCahuna]
PandaBear Offline


Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 12404
Loc: Silicon Valley
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Since no auto mfgr actually MAKES spark plugs, No one can prove they are the best. Harley plugs are a classic example. They're made by Champion, who also sells a plug that looks exactly the same, without the Harley name on it for less $$$. With the way cars are made these days, computers control every aspect of ignition. A super duper factory trained tech could not tell just from driving a particular car ,what plugs are installed in it.Use whatever brand you want, as long as the plug mfgr says it's for your vehicle. And change them every 50-100k miles.,,


But auto manufacturers TEST AND CALIBRATE their fuel and ignition according to the plugs they buy from others. That's the biggest advantage if you buy from the right OEM and the biggest problem if you buy from the wrong one.

So for example, if you have a Ford that uses AutoLite from the factory and the fuel / ignition map and the heat range are all calibrated for this plug, and AutoLite sell the exact same one in parts store, you win with cheaper prices for the same design.

However, if you use an aftermarket plug on a low volume car that is not the OEM of the factory, then they may just find the closest plug to the OEM design and assume it works. You may get a plug with heat range that's too far off, different gap size (if pre gapped), different electrode design, etc and it doesn't run well, and you lose out compare to buying OEM or other brand in this case.


Edited by PandaBear (04/28/14 03:54 PM)
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