Audi FSi and TFSi owners chime in

[G-MAN]

In another thread a VW TSi owner stated that it's normal for the oil in my Audi 2.0 TFSi engine to turn black. I've never owned a gasoline powered engine where the oil turned black like a diesel engine's oil. In fact, the oil on the dipstick* looks just like it did on the Mercedes 240D I owned 30 years ago--black as soot.

Does the oil in these FSi engines run black because they are direct injection? Is that a characteristic of DI engines?

*And just to head off some wise guy posting that these engines do not have a dipstick, I ordered one for it because I like to physically check my oil and not rely on the computer to tell me the oil level. VW part number 06J115611E. Consensus on the Audi forums is that this is the closest "fit" for the 2.0 in the B8 platform and with a full 5 quarts in the sump the oil level will show between the A and the X in the word "MAX." I verified that yesterday when I changed the oil.

 

[beast3300]

Yes. Every DI engine turns oil black fairly instantly.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
In another thread a VW TSi owner stated that it's normal for the oil in my Audi 2.0 TFSi engine to turn black. I've never owned a gasoline powered engine where the oil turned black like a diesel engine's oil. In fact, the oil on the dipstick* looks just like it did on the Mercedes 240D I owned 30 years ago--black as soot.

Does the oil in these FSi engines run black because they are direct injection? Is that a characteristic of DI engines?

*And just to head off some wise guy posting that these engines do not have a dipstick, I ordered one for it because I like to physically check my oil and not rely on the computer to tell me the oil level. VW part number 06J115611E. Consensus on the Audi forums is that this is the closest "fit" for the 2.0 in the B8 platform and with a full 5 quarts in the sump the oil level will show between the A and the X in the word "MAX." I verified that yesterday when I changed the oil.


Black as on diesel engine, I think it depends on the oil you use. I still own diesel cars in Europe, and it does not turn that black, but you will not have that color like in engine with port injection.
I changed oil some 500 miles ago, and it is already dark. Engine is top notch, does not use any oil, what I put in, that is how much I take out.
I would though consider moving from Castrol 0W40 to either Mid-SAPS (VW 502.00/505.01) or even Low-SAPS (VW 504.00/507.00) due to carbon deposits on valves. There is pretty good evidence that Low-SAPS oil will reduce carbon deposits significantly. I experimented with M1 ESP 5W30. Did UOA at 3.300 miles, and it turned out OK. I will do next UOA at 5 K and if it turns out good, I will continue to use on both of my TSI engines.
Here is my UOA on M1 ESP:
M1 ESP 5W30 UOA

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: beast3300
Yes. Every DI engine turns oil black fairly instantly.


My 2.0T FSI doesn't.

My old TDI... yes it did

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
In another thread a VW TSi owner stated that it's normal for the oil in my Audi 2.0 TFSi engine to turn black. I've never owned a gasoline powered engine where the oil turned black like a diesel engine's oil. In fact, the oil on the dipstick* looks just like it did on the Mercedes 240D I owned 30 years ago--black as soot.

Does the oil in these FSi engines run black because they are direct injection? Is that a characteristic of DI engines?

*And just to head off some wise guy posting that these engines do not have a dipstick, I ordered one for it because I like to physically check my oil and not rely on the computer to tell me the oil level. VW part number 06J115611E. Consensus on the Audi forums is that this is the closest "fit" for the 2.0 in the B8 platform and with a full 5 quarts in the sump the oil level will show between the A and the X in the word "MAX." I verified that yesterday when I changed the oil.


Color is not an indication of oil wear. Do a UOA to be sure.

 

[dparm]

Oil turns black with use. It means nothing.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Oil turns black with use. It means nothing.


I have never owned a gasoline powered car or motorcycle where the engine oil turns jet black with use. It turns a dark brown, and if you wipe the end of the dipstick on a white paper towel you can clearly see that the oil is dark brown. The oil in this Audi was BLACK, just like it used to be in my old Mercedes diesel.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: dparm
Oil turns black with use. It means nothing.


I have never owned a gasoline powered car or motorcycle where the engine oil turns jet black with use. It turns a dark brown, and if you wipe the end of the dipstick on a white paper towel you can clearly see that the oil is dark brown. The oil in this Audi was BLACK, just like it used to be in my old Mercedes diesel.

Oil in my car does not turn like in diesel engine. That being said, what kind of oil dealer used? I trust them so much, that whenever I bought my CPO cars, first thing I did was change oil. God knows what kind of olive oil they put in.
How is your oil now?

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Oil in my car does not turn like in diesel engine. That being said, what kind of oil dealer used? I trust them so much, that whenever I bought my CPO cars, first thing I did was change oil. God knows what kind of olive oil they put in.
How is your oil now?


I've e-mailed the Audi service adviser and asked what oil they use. I'm waiting to hear back.

I just checked the oil on the dipstick and it's turning black. It's not jet black yet like the oil that was in there, but it's definitely no longer the amber color of the new oil. It has about 200 miles on it.

I'm not that concerned about it. The oil was changed at 5000 miles per Audi's requirements and then the previous owner took it back in for two more oil changes at 1-year intervals (Audi specifies 10,000 miles or 1 year). Both of those oil changes the oil had about 7000 miles on it. The engine is spotless looking inside the valve cover and also looking inside the engine where the oil filter screws on.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Oil in my car does not turn like in diesel engine. That being said, what kind of oil dealer used? I trust them so much, that whenever I bought my CPO cars, first thing I did was change oil. God knows what kind of olive oil they put in.
How is your oil now?


I've e-mailed the Audi service adviser and asked what oil they use. I'm waiting to hear back.

I just checked the oil on the dipstick and it's turning black. It's not jet black yet like the oil that was in there, but it's definitely no longer the amber color of the new oil. It has about 200 miles on it.

I'm not that concerned about it. The oil was changed at 5000 miles per Audi's requirements and then the previous owner took it back in for two more oil changes at 1-year intervals (Audi specifies 10,000 miles or 1 year). Both of those oil changes the oil had about 7000 miles on it. The engine is spotless looking inside the valve cover and also looking inside the engine where the oil filter screws on.


As I said, oil in these TFSI engines will get dark, boac (not liked diesel). Do not worry. If you want toe tick to Catsrol 0W40, just do UOA after 5K.
My advice is to switch to at least Mid-SAPS oil VW 505.01 or Low SAPS oil.

 

[G-MAN]

Just got the following reply back from the service adviser at the dealer:

Quote:
We use Castrol Syntec 5w-40, but any full synthetic that meets our spec will work.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Just got the following reply back from the service adviser at the dealer:

Quote:
We use Castrol Syntec 5w-40, but any full synthetic that meets our spec will work.

Yeah, that is probably worst synthetic on the market that meets VW 502.00.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Just got the following reply back from the service adviser at the dealer:

Quote:
We use Castrol Syntec 5w-40, but any full synthetic that meets our spec will work.

Yeah, that is probably worst synthetic on the market that meets VW 502.00.


I know. I'm glad I dumped it and put in the Edge 0w40. I typically put about 5000 miles a year on my car, so I won't mind leaving this in there for a full year.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Just got the following reply back from the service adviser at the dealer:

Quote:
We use Castrol Syntec 5w-40, but any full synthetic that meets our spec will work.

Yeah, that is probably worst synthetic on the market that meets VW 502.00.


I know. I'm glad I dumped it and put in the Edge 0w40. I typically put about 5000 miles a year on my car, so I won't mind leaving this in there for a full year.

Man, you can sell that car in 30 years as collectors car

I put on my CC since january 11K.

 

[artificialist]

I see some 2.0 direct injection VW cars with soot on the rear bumper. That would suggest to me that the pollutants those engines create is similar to that of a diesel.

If the engine uses EGR, the contamination will get even worse. I don't know if those direct injection VW engines use EGR or not.

 

[UG_Passat]

they don't. they use Valve timing to simulate EGR

 

[weasley]

The main reason for oils turning black is the accumulation of soot in the oil. With diesels it is easy to see why they might go black, but GDI engines also create appreciable soot levels, which is a concern that may lead to the introduction of gasoline particulate filters in the future. I suspect this may be why oils in GDI engines may get black.

 

[G-MAN]

Okay, after doing a little research, here is what I've discovered:

My 2010 A4 has the Audi-developed EA888 (Gen 2) 2.0 TFSI engine. The Gen 3 version of the EA888 2.0 TFSI will debut in the B9 version of the A4 for model year 2015. Among the changes to the Gen 3 engine is the change to both direct AND port fuel injection. Unlike in Toyota's implementation of the dual set up, in the Audi it's an "either/or" use. Direct injection is used at idle and full-load; port injection is used for part-load, where (according to Audi) "port injection is better at mixing the fuel and air, with less soot produced [emphasis mine]. So, I think I have the answer to my coal-black oil and sooty tail pipe: The direct injection of the Gen 2 engine produces more soot.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Okay, after doing a little research, here is what I've discovered:

My 2010 A4 has the Audi-developed EA888 (Gen 2) 2.0 TFSI engine. The Gen 3 version of the EA888 2.0 TFSI will debut in the B9 version of the A4 for model year 2015. Among the changes to the Gen 3 engine is the change to both direct AND port fuel injection. Unlike in Toyota's implementation of the dual set up, in the Audi it's an "either/or" use. Direct injection is used at idle and full-load; port injection is used for part-load, where (according to Audi) "port injection is better at mixing the fuel and air, with less soot produced [emphasis mine]. So, I think I have the answer to my coal-black oil and sooty tail pipe: The direct injection of the Gen 2 engine produces more soot.

Soot is not an issue, port injection is there because of deposits on valves.
Do not worry about soot, color of oil. Worry about valve carbon deposits. You can find on Google horrible pictures of valves.
Only way to deal with it is using Mid-SAPS or better, Low-SAPS oil.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Okay, after doing a little research, here is what I've discovered:

My 2010 A4 has the Audi-developed EA888 (Gen 2) 2.0 TFSI engine. The Gen 3 version of the EA888 2.0 TFSI will debut in the B9 version of the A4 for model year 2015. Among the changes to the Gen 3 engine is the change to both direct AND port fuel injection. Unlike in Toyota's implementation of the dual set up, in the Audi it's an "either/or" use. Direct injection is used at idle and full-load; port injection is used for part-load, where (according to Audi) "port injection is better at mixing the fuel and air, with less soot produced [emphasis mine]. So, I think I have the answer to my coal-black oil and sooty tail pipe: The direct injection of the Gen 2 engine produces more soot.

Soot is not an issue, port injection is there because of deposits on valves.
Do not worry about soot, color of oil. Worry about valve carbon deposits. You can find on Google horrible pictures of valves.
Only way to deal with it is using Mid-SAPS or better, Low-SAPS oil.


Soot is not an issue? So I take it you know more about these engines than the Audi engineers. The quote above regarding reduction in soot was from Audi.