Received an email from Purolator

[SilverGGA]

It looks like even if Purolator can root cause the problem, they are just going to let the defective filters in the channel run its course. That is totally irresponsible. After reading about this fiasco, I am never going to buy any aftermarket filter.

I use factory filters on my Subaru, and they actually issued a recall because a batch has seals that "might" have seepage. It is ridiculous that so many never consider factory filters, and incorrectly believe the aftermarket ones have a higher quality.

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
So you have scanned the entire internet already?

Why, have you formed a club?




I have lost track of what you two are arguing about, but lets at least keep this thread somewhat educated for when the Purolator people find this thread.

That's a good point. We have multiple threads and insults flying around in many of them.

Maybe Purolator see this behavior and are no longer taking us seriously. They may think that a couple of people arguing is doing a fine job of distracting us.

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: SilverGGA
It looks like even if Purolator can root cause the problem, they are just going to let the defective filters in the channel run its course. That is totally irresponsible. After reading about this fiasco, I am never going to buy any aftermarket filter.

I use factory filters on my Subaru, and they actually issued a recall because a batch has seals that "might" have seepage. It is ridiculous that so many never consider factory filters, and incorrectly believe the aftermarket ones have a higher quality.


I mentioned that the quality issue seems to have coincided with Purolator increasing supply to Walmart and perhaps Purolator had compromised to hit a price point. It is also interesting how there were reports that Motorcraft filters had increased in price.

 

[SilverGGA]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000

I mentioned that the quality issue seems to have coincided with Purolator increasing supply to Walmart and perhaps Purolator had compromised to hit a price point. It is also interesting how there were reports that Motorcraft filters had increased in price.


True or not, it doesn't make Purolator a better company. And it's not Walmart or China's fault. It's just that there are cheap consumers that can't/won't pay more, and they don't care about the product's quality. Purolator is just fulfilling that need through Walmart.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Maybe Purolator see this behavior and are no longer taking us seriously. They may think that a couple of people arguing is doing a fine job of distracting us.


I'm beginning to think that Wilhelm_D has been hired by Purolator to try and convince everyone here that large media tears are "insignificant" and "not a big deal" and "won't hurt anything" so all the sheep just accept it as "normal". Fat chance trying to herd the sheep.

 

[Sam2000]

Are you being serious (that Wilhelm has been hired by Purolator)?

 

[Merkava_4]

He's just a hardcore fan of Purolator. Some people are a hardcore fan of the Fiat 500. Does it make sense to you and me ? No, but that's them.

 

[michaelluscher]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I like this ... right from Purolator. You think having big holes in the media would go along with their product mantra?

Oil Filters: Why Failure Is Not An Option
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/news/Pages/OilFiltersWhyFailureIsNotAnOption.aspx

"According to the folks at Purolator, who invented the automotive oil filter way back in 1923, the consequences of using a sub-standard oil filter are many and varied and, as suggested by our headline, failure can be catastrophic.

“Oil filters appear simple because all of their secrets are hidden inside a plain-looking case,” said Ramon Nuñez, spokesman for Purolator Filters, a leading supplier of automotive filters to the aftermarket in North America. “It’s easy to think of oil filters as nothing more than a piece of pleated paper glued inside a metal cylinder, with a rubber sealing ring thrown in for good measure. But oil filters are far more complex than that, and oil filter malfunction or failure can cause, at the least, premature engine wear and oil consumption and, at worst, catastrophic engine failure.”

Purolator just got CALLED OUT!

Now if they'd just do something about it...........

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Are you being serious (that Wilhelm has been hired by Purolator)?


Well, I would have hoped that they would hire someone with a bit more internet savvy... the "good" ones are a lot less confrontational.


but it is not uncommon for companies to hire individuals or firms (yes, there are firms out there doing this) to manage online "reputations". So they will actively seek to suppress "negative" issues from searches or via forum "muddying".

Example:
http://reputationx.com/online-reputation-management-services/

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Well, I would have hoped that they would hire someone with a bit more internet savvy... the "good" ones are a lot less confrontational.

I assume you mention this to demonstrate you've not been hired by anyone.

 

[Hyde244]

Novel concept - how about not accusing anyone of anything?

Purolator has been notified, and are on the lookout for any gaps in quality control. End of topic.

 

[quint]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
So what makes you think that the population outside of BITOG is not seeing close to the same rate of failures?

It's remarkably quiet elsewhere sans you and your cohorts looking under every rock and characterizing the tiniest cut as a "FAILURE!".


So you have scanned the entire internet already? Someone posted a link a while ago to another chat board where someone posted about Purolator media tears. Maybe he was an ex-BITOG member, and the media tearing Gremlins followed him.


I dont want to jump into the middle of your guys' bickering, but I have to say, due to the fact that I am the go-to mechanic for many of my neighbors and family members, I frequently lurk (but rarely post) in probably a dozen different car forums of various makes, just to keep informed on typical trouble spots on the cars I maintain, and the torn Purolator issue is hardly unique to BITOG. If you cant find a "torn Purolator" thread outside of BITOG, your arent looking. "Remarkably quiet elsewhere"..? Uh, no.

 

[gizzsdad]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'm beginning to think that Wilhelm_D has been hired by Purolator to try and convince everyone here that large media tears are "insignificant" and "not a big deal" and "won't hurt anything" so all the sheep just accept it as "normal".


I will just point out that we do now have an actual example of a UOA "with" a torn filter and the results were fine.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...sic#Post3350159

I suspect that if they could identify the actual issue, they would have no issue about issuing a recall. They just don't have that information yet. It sounds like they would sincerely like to have more examples of failures so as to make a determination.

This reminds me that I have several autopsied filters that I have not yet taken the time to examine the affected area closely. Need to get around to that.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: quint
If you cant find a "torn Purolator" thread outside of BITOG, your arent looking.

The same thing happened with the Mobil 1 fiasco some years ago. Many of the same folks pollinate the same forums, and suddenly the entire gaggle fringe in auto-related groups, forums, and lists were atwitter with "facts" about Mobil 1.

Gravity finally took hold, folks woke up to the realities, and Mobil 1 returned to respectability.

Calm posters make comments like:

Quote:
Purolator has been notified, and are on the lookout for any gaps in quality control. End of topic.


to which I say "Amen".

 

[quint]

I'm not sure I agree that its all the same people pollinating all the various hundreds of car forums trying to slam Purolator. I'm sure its happening to some extent, but this much? Cant agree with you on that one.

I have been reading the back and forth between you and Zee0Six and I think you both have made some reasonable arguments.

I do remember the Mobil 1 hysteria a while back, and not thinking much about it at the time, because as like you mentioned, the 'facts' were far and few between. What I can tell you is, I have been cutting open filters of various brands for years without finding tears, and cut open two Purolators in the last two weeks, and both were torn. And thats a fact. One of the filters was in service less than 1000 miles and had three tears in it. Would this have significantly affected my engine? Possibly, probably not much, but I really dont know, nor do I have the inclination to test it. I do know that the only reason I removed and autopsied this young filter was due to the posts on this forum and others, and that filter would have remained in service another 6000-7000 miles with those tears had I not known this issue to exist (to whatever extent it actually exists), and that makes me uncomfortable enough to stop using this product.

Why, after seeing this number of these filters lately with tears in them that people would continue to use them or defend them to staunchly is a bit.... off... to me, but thats just me. I'm moving on to M1 and Fram Ultras. Probably overkill and underutilization for my application, but the extra $4 per filter I will be spending is not significant to me and I'm fine with it until all the real facts are in about this latest buzz.

Oh well, carry one... I'm enjoying watching the debate.

 

[FetchFar]

Originally Posted By: quint
I'm moving on to M1 and Fram Ultras. Probably overkill and underutilization for my application, but the extra $4 per filter I will be spending is not significant to me and I'm fine with it until all the real facts are in about this latest buzz.


When they blend in glass fibers into cellulose, as in the premium filters, it could be the tear risk goes down, stronger media. Seems reasonable anyway, like the way fiberglas reinforces plastic/resin. And, yes, the cost isn't really too significant.

Question I have: If a few people around the world cutting open Purolator Classics are finding tears, why hasn't Purolator found tears in the field? In other words, what kind of field retrieval methods do they use? Not rocket science. Assuming Purolator actually looks at used filters once in a while, a no-brainer I would think, then what changes are they already thinking about? ... they must have alreaady known about this.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: quint
I'm not sure I agree that its all the same people pollinating all the various hundreds of car forums trying to slam Purolator. I'm sure its happening to some extent, but this much? Cant agree with you on that one.

I have been reading the back and forth between you and Zee0Six and I think you both have made some reasonable arguments.

I do remember the Mobil 1 hysteria a while back, and not thinking much about it at the time, because as like you mentioned, the 'facts' were far and few between. What I can tell you is, I have been cutting open filters of various brands for years without finding tears, and cut open two Purolators in the last two weeks, and both were torn. And thats a fact. One of the filters was in service less than 1000 miles and had three tears in it. Would this have significantly affected my engine? Possibly, probably not much, but I really dont know, nor do I have the inclination to test it. I do know that the only reason I removed and autopsied this young filter was due to the posts on this forum and others, and that filter would have remained in service another 6000-7000 miles with those tears had I not known this issue to exist (to whatever extent it actually exists), and that makes me uncomfortable enough to stop using this product.

Why, after seeing this number of these filters lately with tears in them that people would continue to use them or defend them to staunchly is a bit.... off... to me, but thats just me. I'm moving on to M1 and Fram Ultras. Probably overkill and underutilization for my application, but the extra $4 per filter I will be spending is not significant to me and I'm fine with it until all the real facts are in about this latest buzz.

Oh well, carry one... I'm enjoying watching the debate.


The autopsies done here were enough for me to stop using them. As a rule I would only get them as part of an oil change special. I prefer Mobil 1 filters, Fram Ultras are pretty good too and I look for oil change specials now that contain them and pass on the Purolator deals. When I feel confident Purolator has corrected this issue I have no problem using them again. As small as this issue might be, there are so many other choices in oil filters not using Purolator filters is pretty easy.

What I've learned over the years on Bitog is products are always stepping into and out of the spotlight. Purolator can easily become a Bitog darling again if they play their cards right.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Are you being serious (that Wilhelm has been hired by Purolator)?


No, not serious ... but anyone who has seen the evidence pour in here lately on Purolators with media tears and basically says it's not really an issue and nobody should even be talking about it seems to have some kind of agenda, like he's associated with Purolator somehow.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: gizzsdad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'm beginning to think that Wilhelm_D has been hired by Purolator to try and convince everyone here that large media tears are "insignificant" and "not a big deal" and "won't hurt anything" so all the sheep just accept it as "normal".


I will just point out that we do now have an actual example of a UOA "with" a torn filter and the results were fine.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...sic#Post3350159


Yeah, but how does anyone know if the filter had tears in the media occur the first day the filter was installed, or on the day before the oil change was done. Nobody knows, so the test data with respect to the effect of the media tears is meaningless.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: quint

What I can tell you is, I have been cutting open filters of various brands for years without finding tears, and cut open two Purolators in the last two weeks, and both were torn. And thats a fact. One of the filters was in service less than 1000 miles and had three tears in it. Would this have significantly affected my engine? Possibly, probably not much, but I really dont know, nor do I have the inclination to test it. I do know that the only reason I removed and autopsied this young filter was due to the posts on this forum and others, and that filter would have remained in service another 6000-7000 miles with those tears had I not known this issue to exist (to whatever extent it actually exists), and that makes me uncomfortable enough to stop using this product.

Why, after seeing this number of these filters lately with tears in them that people would continue to use them or defend them to staunchly is a bit.... off... to me, but thats just me. I'm moving on to M1 and Fram Ultras. Probably overkill and underutilization for my application, but the extra $4 per filter I will be spending is not significant to me and I'm fine with it until all the real facts are in about this latest buzz.


Good comments ... logic prevails.