Fram TG4386 cut open

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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Just a question? Why not? They are made from similar material as the media itself. If you have confidence in the media, the end caps are nothing to worry about. So many OE's going to this or similar technology now. Even Porsche is using felt type end caps on its new car cartridge filters. This technology has been proven in over 2 billion filters!


MK - Does the TG have thicker end caps than the EG? I also see the OEM Honda filters made by Honeywell that have fiber end caps, and they look noticeably thicker than the end caps in the FRAMs.

Just seems the thicker fiber end caps stay more ridged and flatter than the thin ones, which is good IMO.

Z06, it does seem that way.
Only metal end cap filters for my engine.
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I like metal end caps too. BUT, if the fiber end caps are thick enough to where they stay nice and flat and ridged like a metal end cap, then I see no issue. It is true that the media glues better to the fiber end caps.
 
I ran several Fram TG3600 oil filters on my Toyota 4Runner usually change it out around 7,000 miles. I cut several open and they all looked great.
 
WOW, the end cap debate goes on and and on and on. I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people. The one good thing it did do is prevent them from ever being able to use this technology. Lets look at the facts-
FRAM has made and sold 2 billion filters this way without issue. Honda and Subaru use this technology OE (built by FRAM). Bentley uses it on 400,000$ cars, made by Mahle. Nissan uses it OE (made by filtech). GM uses electrostatically welded felt end caps (FRAM/Champ Labs)OE.
Toyota's current OE filters have no end caps at all, just the ends of the pleats woven together (unsure who makes those). Mann and Hummel have several cartridge filters that use nothing but plastisol glue for end caps. Mann is also now making Porsche OE filters with the electrostatically welded end caps. The reality is it is technology that works, and now that we no longer have patent rights, seems the industry is moving that way. No matter what anyone thinks, if a filter made by any major US manufacturer caused an engine failure, the filter maker would be on the hook plain and simple. As always, I welcome your questions [email protected]
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking
WOW, the end cap debate goes on and and on and on. I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people. The one good thing it did do is prevent them from ever being able to use this technology. Lets look at the facts-
FRAM has made and sold 2 billion filters this way without issue. Honda and Subaru use this technology OE (built by FRAM). Bentley uses it on 400,000$ cars, made by Mahle. Nissan uses it OE (made by filtech). GM uses electrostatically welded felt end caps (FRAM/Champ Labs)OE.
Toyota's current OE filters have no end caps at all, just the ends of the pleats woven together (unsure who makes those). Mann and Hummel have several cartridge filters that use nothing but plastisol glue for end caps. Mann is also now making Porsche OE filters with the electrostatically welded end caps. The reality is it is technology that works, and now that we no longer have patent rights, seems the industry is moving that way. No matter what anyone thinks, if a filter made by any major US manufacturer caused an engine failure, the filter maker would be on the hook plain and simple. As always, I welcome your questions [email protected]

MK, that is a very good explanation as to the "end cap" debate. To me, it's kind of like breaking an old habit; ie; the 3K mile OCI. That one took me awhile to get over. But, until the oil filter industry does away with metal end caps all together, or I die, I will continue to use a metal end cap type oil filter on my engine.
Also, of all the FRAM oil filters made it should please you that I would use a FU on my engine.
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Originally Posted By: Motorking
I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people.


Kind of like the Fram campaign telling people that cardboard end-caps will somehow match the resilience of metal end-caps...

If I'm going to pay a premium price for a filter, it better have premium materials throughout its entire construction.

That means, metal end-caps.


K
 
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: Motorking
I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people.


Kind of like the Fram campaign telling people that cardboard end-caps will somehow match the resilience of metal end-caps...

If I'm going to pay a premium price for a filter, it better have premium materials throughout its entire construction.

That means, metal end-caps.


K

+1
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: Motorking
I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people.


Kind of like the Fram campaign telling people that cardboard end-caps will somehow match the resilience of metal end-caps...

If I'm going to pay a premium price for a filter, it better have premium materials throughout its entire construction.

That means, metal end-caps.


K

+1


+ 2
 
Originally Posted By: JDW
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: Motorking
I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people.


Kind of like the Fram campaign telling people that cardboard end-caps will somehow match the resilience of metal end-caps...

If I'm going to pay a premium price for a filter, it better have premium materials throughout its entire construction.

That means, metal end-caps.


K

+1


+ 2


-3

What's the filter media made out of? Hint - its not metal (unless you want a rock catcher only).

Decisions should be made based on data, not emotions. But BITOG is full of passionate people with a sprinkling of logical ones.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
What's the filter media made out of? Hint - its not metal (unless you want a rock catcher only).


Hint: Filtering media has a different function than an end-cap. Appropriate materials accordingly.


K
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Decisions should be made based on data, not emotions. But BITOG is full of passionate people with a sprinkling of logical ones.


I can see that statement ending up in a couple of member's signature line. Well said.
 
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: Motorking
I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people.


Kind of like the Fram campaign telling people that cardboard end-caps will somehow match the resilience of metal end-caps...

If I'm going to pay a premium price for a filter, it better have premium materials throughout its entire construction.

That means, metal end-caps.


K


Well there is your problem right there. Metal end caps are not premium but likely an inferior product design.
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: Motorking
I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people.


Kind of like the Fram campaign telling people that cardboard end-caps will somehow match the resilience of metal end-caps...

If I'm going to pay a premium price for a filter, it better have premium materials throughout its entire construction.

That means, metal end-caps.


K


Well there is your problem right there. Metal end caps are not premium but likely an inferior product design.
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Take a poll and see which end cap material is preferred. I bet the majority will be metal end caps. Just sayin'................
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Cardboard vs. metal end-caps... yeah, real hard to tell which one should be in a 'premium' priced filter
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lol...


K
 
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They should be priced the same. The stamped metal end caps and the fiber end caps are probably within a penny of each other cost wise.

Fiber end caps work! If you think they don't, show 1 post of a failed fiber end cap. It isn't the end cap that tends to fail, it is the media, housing, or seal.

I have seen metal end caps that have failed and separated from the media on here. Not personally. I have never seen this with the fiber.

I think both technologies work and don't have a problem with either in a premium product.

I wouldn't use a Purolator Classic and I wouldn't use a Fram orange can.....but that is because they are both entry level.

I think Fram has better made filters than most in the the premium versions.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: Motorking
I guess the 25 yr WIX marketing campaign of steel vs fiber end caps has really brainwashed alot of people.


Kind of like the Fram campaign telling people that cardboard end-caps will somehow match the resilience of metal end-caps...

If I'm going to pay a premium price for a filter, it better have premium materials throughout its entire construction.

That means, metal end-caps.


K


Well there is your problem right there. Metal end caps are not premium but likely an inferior product design.
28.gif


Take a poll and see which end cap material is preferred. I bet the majority will be metal end caps. Just sayin'................
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Wouldn't a poll just be a bunch of opinions?
 
Originally Posted By: Cooper

Fiber end caps work! If you think they don't, show 1 post of a failed fiber end cap. It isn't the end cap that tends to fail, it is the media, housing, or seal.


I have seen fiber end caps that tend to warp and not stay very flat. Only drawback with that is it's possible the seal around the end cap at the center core could be compromised for the ADBV or the bypass valve. Some filters have pretty thick fiber end caps, and they seem to

Originally Posted By: Cooper

I have seen metal end caps that have failed and separated from the media on here. Not personally. I have never seen this with the fiber.


I have seen the very thin fiber end caps typically used on SuperTech filters and similar that have de-bonded from the ends of the pleats. But anything like Fram's fiber end cap design, haven't seen any de-bonding on that design.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Wouldn't a poll just be a bunch of opinions?


Yeah, that's pretty much what a "poll" is.

Poll: an activity in which several or many people are asked a question or a series of questions in order to get information about what most people think about something.

"what most people think about something" = opinions.
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