Motorcraft FL-820S (Purolator) 10,000Km

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
On the other hand, the UOA looked fine. So do a whole bunch of Honda/Toyota UOA's using OEM filters with absolutely abysmal efficiency.

So I'd put forth the notion that the lost efficiency on the torn Puro's is not a huge deal. But torn media still is. Or Puro can just keep their heads and the sand and make the most of it.

"NEW! PUROLATOR Classic filters now with IMPROVED FLOW!"

... maybe they should change their model designation to TL, like TL14610. TL can stand for "Tearolator".

But seriously, if there is a big gaping hole in the media and something large did come into the filter, it's possible it could go right down that hole and into the engine. There's still risk there. Plus, the fibers and media on the torn edge could erode and break away and go down the engine's oiling system.

Bottom line is I don't want no stinkin' tears in my filter's media.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But seriously, if there is a big gaping hole in the media and something large did come into the filter, it's possible it could go right down that hole and into the engine.

Exactly what would happen if you were accelerating and the bypass was open.

The solution, of course, is to make sure you don't put something large into the oil in the first place. If the engine is shedding somethings that are large, you're already in trouble and the filter is irrelevant.

Quote:
Plus, the fibers and media on the torn edge could erode and break away and go down the engine's oiling system.

None of the pictures illustrate something along those lines. Since the media is woven into a flannel-like configuration, and the holes appear as tears or cuts, such a scenario seems unlikely. Were bits of the media to come loose, you'd have wet cardboard, which seems unlikely to do any serious harm.

All sorts of material show up in motor oil, especially on new engines - sand, metal shavings, gasket material, cigarette butts, you name it. In almost 50 years I've not seen a single engine failure as a result.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: HangFire
This is BITOG. This IS our outlet. This is the place WE get to say something and find our own answers, and not just put up with useless liability-conscious market-speak from manufacturers.

I take it this means I am allowed to disagree with you.


Disagree, yes. Condescending comments, Question motivations and lifestyle, no. That's bad manners on ANY forum.

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

So far the only answers have been ungrounded allegations of doom, destruction, and despair based on tiny tears. On the other hand, someone actually took the trouble to analyze his oil after finding some tears:

This tells me that even though tears are...or even minimal

and noted that the effect was apparently nothing at all.

A few facts to go along with the shouting would really be helpful.


Several photographs with tears, cuts and holes ARE facts. So is one UOA. (Just one). We can disagree about conclusions but the facts are already up on this board.

To get back to the discussion, filters exist not just for the ideal cases but for the non-ideal, for example a plastic chain guide fragmenting (I saw this on an old Nissan years ago). A UOA might not even see that but I would sure be happy that all those hard plastic bits were sitting in my oil filter instead of in my main journal oil passages. Which is what would happen... unless, of course, my oil filter had holes in it.

So a single UOA is informative, but hardly definitive.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But seriously, if there is a big gaping hole in the media and something large did come into the filter, it's possible it could go right down that hole and into the engine.

Exactly what would happen if you were accelerating and the bypass was open.

The solution, of course, is to make sure you don't put something large into the oil in the first place. If the engine is shedding somethings that are large, you're already in trouble and the filter is irrelevant.


You somehow justify big holes in the media to be the same thing as a bypass valve opening once and a while. It's not the same. Now if the bypass valve was open 100% of the time, then yes you could use that analogy. I doubt anyone would be happy about the performance of their oil filter knowing the bypass valve was always open.

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Quote:
Plus, the fibers and media on the torn edge could erode and break away and go down the engine's oiling system.

None of the pictures illustrate something along those lines. Since the media is woven into a flannel-like configuration, and the holes appear as tears or cuts, such a scenario seems unlikely. Were bits of the media to come loose, you'd have wet cardboard, which seems unlikely to do any serious harm.

All sorts of material show up in motor oil, especially on new engines - sand, metal shavings, gasket material, cigarette butts, you name it. In almost 50 years I've not seen a single engine failure as a result.


So you're concluding that zero fibers or small chunks of media could ever tear off of a major tear in the media and go down the oiling system in every failure situation ... that's an amazing deduction.

Yes, all kinds of materials show up in motor oil, especially on a new engine. So I guess it's just fine if the filter has a big old hole in the media for some of that to bypass the filter and go into the tight bearings, etc. Like I said, you need to blank off your filter mount and stop buying oil filters since they aren't that important in you mind.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
You somehow justify big holes in the media to be the same thing as a bypass valve opening once and a while.

You are clearly no longer reading what anyone else is posting except to score what you believe are points.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
You somehow justify big holes in the media to be the same thing as a bypass valve opening once and a while.

You are clearly no longer reading what anyone else is posting except to score what you believe are points.


Don't worry, others here are smart enough to tell the truth from (your) fiction.

 

[OVERKILL]

Wow.... my thread went sideways

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Wow.... my thread went sideways

Back when the Mobil 1 hysteria took over BITOG, the same thing happened every time the word "Mobil" appeared in a thread.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Wow.... my thread went sideways

Back when the Mobil 1 hysteria took over BITOG, the same thing happened every time the word "Mobil" appeared in a thread.




Yup, I remember. That happens with anything that goes viral on here really.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Wow.... my thread went sideways

Back when the Mobil 1 hysteria took over BITOG, the same thing happened every time the word "Mobil" appeared in a thread


Yup, I remember. That happens with anything that goes viral on here really.


I never saw any of that, but I'd have to think there must have been some type of evidence/test data (UOAs?) that someone had that made them thing Mobil 1 wasn't doing what it should be doing.

With this media tearing issue, it's pretty hard to deny that there have been way too many reports of Purolators with torn media in the last few months.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Wow.... my thread went sideways

Back when the Mobil 1 hysteria took over BITOG, the same thing happened every time the word "Mobil" appeared in a thread


Yup, I remember. That happens with anything that goes viral on here really.


I never saw any of that, but I'd have to think there must have been some type of evidence/test data (UOAs?) that someone had that made them thing Mobil 1 wasn't doing what it should be doing.

With this media tearing issue, it's pretty hard to deny that there have been way too many reports of Purolators with torn media in the last few months.


If he's referring to the "high iron" in M1 UOA's, it (the stigma) persists to this day. It has just lost most of the wind in its sails and has subsequently settled down for the most part. A few PPM doesn't mean jack but it makes for a heck of a row on here, LOL!

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Was it "just a few more iron particles", or was it significantly larger? If it was significant larger when using Mobil 1 in the same engine compared to all other oils used in the same engine under the same driving conditions, then that could be valid data and a valid concern.

Just like these media tears, there has been a significant uptick of reported failures over a relatively short time span. All a fluke that happens only to BITOG members who cut open filers? ... I doubt it, there is something going on.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Was it "just a few more iron particles", or was it significantly larger? If it was significant larger when using Mobil 1 in the same engine compared to all other oils used in the same engine under the same driving conditions, then that could be valid data and a valid concern.

Just like these media tears, there has been a significant uptick of reported failures over a relatively short time span. All a fluke that happens only to BITOG members who cut open filers? ... I doubt it, there is something going on.


No, it was like 5-10ppm. Doug Hillary weighed in on it a few times as to the value of the data and that seemed to help settle it down a fair bit.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
No, it was like 5-10ppm.

Actually it was, on average, 0 ppm.

The supposed difference was the result of the selective examination syndrome, where only data supporting the erroneous conclusion is noted, and all else disregarded.

What set it off was a single comment that one weight of one line of Mobil 1 appeared to have a Group III base. Nonsense about non-existent lawsuits between Castrol and Mobil, demands that ExxonMobil provide detailed information about their formulae, and so on followed.

Many of the folks involved thankfully no longer live here.

When it all shook out, it turned out that ExxonMobil was using some or all Group III on some formulae, while still using primarily PAO on its 0W-x formulae, in its run-up to using rationing its PAO production for upgraded ATF requirements. Folks suddenly noted terrific results with Mobil 1, and the whole sad thing finally faded away.

This silly uproar about a few insignificant cuts or tears in filter media at the glue ends bears the hallmarks of the very same selective examination, along with the infamous Audi sudden acceleration syndrome that turned out not to exist, the recent Toyota sudden acceleration syndrome that was found to result from the installation of incorrect oversized non-factory floormats.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

This silly uproar about a few insignificant cuts or tears in filter media at the glue ends bears the hallmarks of the very same selective examination ...


Sorry to break the news to you, but my perception is that only a few members here (you and maybe a couple others) think the media tearing issue is "insignificant". People make up their minds base on what they see, and all your "it's insignificant" banter about media tearing will never change their minds. They see many reoccurring instances and photos of big holes in the media with their own eyes, and that's hard to dispute on decision making to like it or not. And it's obvious clear the huge majority don't like it happening.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Sorry to break the news to you, but my perception is that only a few members here (you and maybe a couple others here) think the media tearing issue is "insignificant".

My perception is that spelling "oil filter" pretty much taps out your knowledge on the topic.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Sorry to break the news to you, but my perception is that only a few members here (you and maybe a couple others here) think the media tearing issue is "insignificant".

My perception is that spelling "oil filter" pretty much taps out your knowledge on the topic.

... you know when someone starts going down the road about spelling they are pretty much brain dead and exhausted in their stance on an issue. Like I said, you are obviously the odd man out here when it comes to the media tearing problem.

 

[David1]

Motorcraft makes great filters....

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: David1
Motorcraft makes great filters....


Agreed

And Mobil makes good oil, LOL!

 

[RF Overlord]

Now may be a good time to buy a filter cutter. I'll have a Motorcraft FL820S coming off my DD with one year and 6,000 miles on it using M1; the best (or worst?

) of both worlds.