Ignition switch fix would've been $1 per vehicle

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Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
It will be a long time before I, and many in my family, buy a new or used GM vehicle.

I'd bet the equity in my home that you wouldn't have purchased a GM before the recall, and you're just fanning the flames now.
 
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Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
It will be a long time before I, and many in my family, buy a new or used GM vehicle.

I'd bet the equity in my home that you wouldn't have purchased a GM before the recall, and you're just fanning the flames now.


Why do you care, and why do you defend them? Are they paying you?
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
It will be a long time before I, and many in my family, buy a new or used GM vehicle.

I'd bet the equity in my home that you wouldn't have purchased a GM before the recall, and you're just fanning the flames now.


Why do you care, and why do you defend them? Are they paying you?

Did I defend them? I said I'd buy a GM product. I think the recall is being over blown, and people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I believe I read that Toyota has the most recalls of all auto makers, yet most think they still have a great reputation. Ford has had their fair share, and yet Oregoonian owns one.
My father in law has an 08 Cobalt. My son is 14, and I've talked about buying that car for my son. I would let my son drive it, and feel that he isn't in danger due to the car. If GM was paying me, I wouldn't be buying an 8 year old car, and I wouldn't be driving a Lincoln and a Honda.
 
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Yup, I'm guessing that if the key would have been in the total vertical (12 o'clock) position when ignition was on this may not have been a problem. Gravity would keep it on.

I checked my Honda S2000, Volvo V70, Mercedes E430 and Lexus LS400, all of them are like that, no chance for failure.
 
So why did GM decide to go against the industry standard and invite this problem? Because they were GM?
 
That's hardly "industry standard". My Dakota, my Jeep, Liz's Metro and I think her Festiva, & my mother's Sable all have the key angled with the ignition on. So do the International, Hino & Freightliner trucks at work. The ONLY vehicle I have owned that had the key vertical when on was my Magnum.
 
Again no one understands manufacturing, I really don't see a massive problem here this is overblown. Lots of hot air and CNN time for nothing really.

Any complicated product built to a price point can possible have failure modes develop that are un foreseen. Even billion dollar aircraft, spaceships, and submarines.

The difference is on critical things like say Rolls Royce jet engines in a 777 they cost a fortune because they are built to far higher standards than say oh a Lexus IS. If your Lexus has a failure your stuck, if the RR jet stops hundreds of people could die. But like anything man made, they still do fail.
 
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
A few years ago it was Toyota, before that Ford...it happens. In those cases I think the media and the government blew both out of proportion a bit, and the same is happening here.

The roads are dangerous, hundreds of people die on them each day.


I would say more than a bit. Automakers are an easy target...the "big bad corporation" out to get you.

There is a cost/benefit equation with every part that goes into a car. Sometimes things are overbuilt, sometimes they are underbuilt. It happens. My truck has one of the infamous Texas Instruments cruise control switches. At 12 years, mine is still fine...I used cruise a day ago. My truck had the fused jumper harness installed in 2007 or 2008 as its switch was not leaking at the time, and it has never popped. Others were no so lucky, but I doubt anyone at Ford or TI was being malicious...the part seemed fine in development and initial use, and later on problems cropped up in some, but clearly not all of the switches. I still see a lot of the old TI switches out there. The idea that GM knew this would cause death and destruction and did it anyway is overblown. To "car people," the idea of a loss of power being catastrophic probably did not seem likely/reasonable, so this part was not seen as a pin on a grenade.

Obviously, manufacturers should err on the side of caution, but it's really impossible to take into account everything people will do, and things they might do that would lead to a certain outcome (IE, pounds of material on a keychain).

This particular uproar has no bearing on whether or not I would buy a GM vehicle. In fact, I drive a GM vehicle 4-5 days a week and "OMG I MIGHT DIE!" never factors into my thinking. I'm way more worried about other drivers than what the truck might do.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
A

Any complicated product built to a price point can possible have failure modes develop that are un foreseen. Even billion dollar aircraft, spaceships, and submarines.



This. IMO, the real question is how you handle the issue when it occurs.

I don't really have a horse in this race, nor do I really give a rats patoot how GM handles it; however, it appears to me that they have a multitude of these type of issues that are hitting the oscillating appliance in rapid succession. Obviously, the press is "helping" them handle it, and they are looking poorly because of it. You have your usual hapless, hopeless, useless group of politicians launching one of their "investigations" in an effort to get face time and try to prove their utility, usefulness and existence to the taxpayer. CNN does not have additional capacity to "help" them more because they are probably spending 21 hours a day babbling about downed aircraft.

I think GM has positioned itself with a CEO that can put the proper PR perspective on it and have decided to clean out the closet of all the "engineering skeletons" they have and take a one time hit on all of them. Time and the marketplace will determine if this is a prudent and wise strategy or not.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
It will be a long time before I, and many in my family, buy a new or used GM vehicle.

I'd bet the equity in my home that you wouldn't have purchased a GM before the recall, and you're just fanning the flames now.


Why do you care, and why do you defend them? Are they paying you?


Does the Nippon Giant pay YOU and the other worshippers on here??
 
Came across this video in my inbox:

link

I don't get how a detent spring buried that far into the system is the problem...?
 
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I'm no GM fan by any means. I think they should've died out instead of being bailed out.

1. Knowing there is a problem that could cause the engine to randomly shut off and not fix it is a big issue for me. I understand the OP's thoughts on this. That is what bothers me, the "eh, whatever" attitude.

2. I think some of the people claiming GM is at fault for their family member's death is also a little extreme. Its one thing if the car shut off on the highway and was rear-ended by a tractor trailer. That I can understand. In one of these accidents the girl was about 16, had been drinking, and the car looks completely destroyed. Obviously speed was a factor. The air bag didn't deploy, but I doubt that would have saved her anyway.

Its this stupid way of needing someone to blame. If my kid dies because they were in a car accident from drinking/speeding and the air bag didn't go off, I'd be at fault for being a [censored] parent, not the car company because the air bag didn't deploy. These safety features are to "enhance" safety, they don't guarantee that people can walk away from any accident. Some air bags don't even go off unless certain sensors are triggered.

Yeah, GM is at fault for the issues with the ignition, but I also see a lot of people digging for money all of a sudden as well.
 
Originally Posted By: wag123
Try it and report back.


Drove the Jetta yesterday. While the pushbutton start is interlocked with the clutch, the stop is not. Press the button for about a second and the engine shuts off regardless of speed or clutch/shifter position.

So, is that a dangerous defect?
 
i don't understand this gm lawsuit.
who in their right mind turns off the igntion key while driving?

i had a nissan altima rental a few years ago that had pushbutton start, push that button while driving and car shuts off and you couldn't restart without shifting to neutral and depressing brake. because it was a rental, naturally my passenger kept hitting the button. should've crashed it, i could be rich.
 
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Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
i don't understand this gm lawsuit.
who in their right mind turns off the igntion key while driving?



ahhh, the car shuts itself down which is the crux of the lawsuit. There is no interaction by the driver. I believe the resistance is not quit enough on the GM cars and they chose the ignore route leading to massive recall, egg on face, law suits and potentially a few deaths due to disabled air bags.
 
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: wag123
Try it and report back.


Drove the Jetta yesterday. While the pushbutton start is interlocked with the clutch, the stop is not. Press the button for about a second and the engine shuts off regardless of speed or clutch/shifter position.

So, is that a dangerous defect?



No, because that is [likely] the way it is designed to operate.

The GM issue is the opposite: it is an unintended operation/failure.
 
Interesting thread here to say the least....

So I'll throw in mine. My Cobalt is at the heart of this recall. And the switch does move out of position on mine if you played with it enough. Car has only turned off once on me in the 6 years that I have owned it. Besides being lame in general, the balt has served me well it it's time as my beater...

I'm not so much [censored] about the recall itself, but the fact that GM knew about it and did nothing for a while. While this case was overblown to epic status, a simple follow through would have been nice. And thanks to the media for freaking out my wife about the airbag issue.....she thought I was going to die! My local dealership was so full of Balts/Ions, mine was sent home to be parked in my driveway waiting for it's switch...which could be quite a while. But, I thank GM for the rental that we have, to give my wife piece of mind.....

While I am annoyed at GM for this (based on their old actions), it would not change my thought of getting a car from them. While I've always though my Cavaliers were better than my balt overall (go ahead, laugh), the Cruze looks to be a fine car if I so choose. I'm down to a few cars for our next purchase (mine actually, wife wants something used), and the Cruze is still in the running for my choices. So we will see..


Thought I share with you guys....
 
Unintended acceleration = lawsuit
Unintended disabling = lawsuit

Man, these car companies just can't catch a brake!




wink.gif
 
I didn't want to start a new thread but I'm just curious, any owners actually go have the recall done?

I stopped by a dealer I found when looking for some parts last week and they had told me they've yet to see parts, this was on the 19th.
 
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
I didn't want to start a new thread but I'm just curious, any owners actually go have the recall done?

I stopped by a dealer I found when looking for some parts last week and they had told me they've yet to see parts, this was on the 19th.



Guess you missed my post..
wink.gif



I went to take the Balt in, and because they had no room left in the lot, told me to take mine home, and put it in the driveway or garage if I could. Got the rental, got set up for an appointment, will be called when the part is ready for my car. At this point, it could be a while for me....

Kinda glad mine is home, as I can keep it warmed up once in a while, and cleaned it up and worked on it as well. Some of those cars have been sitting for quite a while now...


I'm only guessing based on what I know...mine might get done at the end of may.....just a guess though!
 
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